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05-04-2009, 03:28 PM | #1 |
YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 258
| What is bad about grains? I notice a lot of folks are feeding grain-free diets. Is that because of allergies & itching, or some other reason? I'm feeding my 4-1/2 lb. Zoey 2 tablespoons of Wellness Small Breed and one of those tiny Mother Hubbard peanut butter crunchy bones in the AM and the same 2 tablespoons of kibble at night, mixed with a teaspoon of canned Wellness Chicken & Sweet Potato. Nothing is grain-free entirely, and the bones have wheat in them. She is itchy and is licking her paws some. I was thinking it was her new outdoor environment...she was almost entirely indoors until we adopted her. Could it be the grains causing her itchiness instead? She was chubby when she came to us on March 26, and has actually gained about 3/8 lb. since! I just can't believe we're feeding her too much...plus she's getting a ton of exercise she never had before. Are bully bones fattening? She loves them & goes thru a 6-1/2" one every 2 or 3 days... The manufacturers are quite cagey about the amount of fat in them...using that cute "not less than" bit. Geez...sorry...I was only going to ask about grains, honest.
__________________ Debby...owned by Zoey, the no longer Porky Chorkie (or maybe Morkie!) |
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05-04-2009, 05:38 PM | #2 |
Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland
Posts: 17,814
| From my understanding, yes allergies are a part of it. But it's also because dogs did not eat grains in the wild so it's not a part of their natural diet. They are meat eaters But I'm sure someone else can give you a better explanation!
__________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier |
05-04-2009, 06:50 PM | #3 |
Thor's Human Donating Member | There are a lot of different opinions on what the best nutriet balance is. Dogs can digest grains, which to me at least suggests that they should be part of the diet. I have Thor on a low grain kibble, and all his snacks right now are meat-based. This has resulted in rock-hard poops, which I am not crazy about. I'm also concerned about the strain of a high protein diet on the kidneys. I go back and forth, basically!
__________________ If you love something, set it free. Unless it's an angry tiger. |
05-04-2009, 07:23 PM | #4 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,410
| Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. There are about 22 different amino acids that most mammals need for various bodily activities. Out of that 22, dogs can internally synthesize 12, leaving 10 that must be derived from their diet. Corn, wheat, soy, oats, barley, etc, are high sources of carbohydates. Carbs are used for quick burnable fuel for muscular, brain, and metabolic activities. Since we know that 10 of those essential amino acids must come from their food source, then it is logical to chose a protein source that comes with a full spectrum of amino acids; fish, eggs, beef, lamb, etc. If we choose a carbohydrate such as corn for the protein source, then our dogs only receive 4 of the 10 essential amino acids that they need. It is not that corn/grains are bad for them, as much as it is that they are not the most nutritional dense protein, for them. |
05-04-2009, 07:41 PM | #5 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL
Posts: 7,651
| I would not want a high grain content, but I am not intent on avoiding all grains either. All grains are not created equally either. For instance brown rice is better than something like corn gluten, barley, or millet. There isan ongoing debate as to whether dogs are really true carnivores like the cat or in reality omnivores (requiring both plant and animal food sources). Here is one of the omnivore sides: Dog Food Secrets: Your Dog The Omnivore There are probably more articles online trying to support the carnivore side of the debate -- but most are written by the makers of grain-free foods or the dog owners that are strict meat feeders. I'm more inclined to think they are omnivores, both due to the combination of teeth type and the fact that every dog will graze on grass at one time or another. I have one that loves new spring grass. Wellness is a good quality dog food. Unless your dog has an actual allergy to one of the ingredients, I would not think the food is responsible for the itchiness. If anything, I might change out the Peanut Butter snack bone. Could be something in her new environment, outside or inside, even something like the shampoo you are using. I find that rinsing has to be almost excessive to ensure no itching. As to the weight issue, she may be gaining as she turns some of the chubbiness to muscle with the new exercise and premium diet. If you think she is getting truly overweight on the food you have listed, might want to get a metabolic panel run on her and make sure there is not something like hypothyroid going on. These are just my opinions. Think you should probably run the questions by your vet next visit for reassurance. Especially would want to make sure the itchiness is resolved. That can lead to skin problems.
__________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard |
05-04-2009, 07:47 PM | #6 |
Thor's Human Donating Member | Also, you can check pretty easily if she is overweight - when viewed from above, you should see a "pinched" waist between her ribs and hips. Two other methods: when viewed from the side, her tummy should be higher than her ribs. Finally, if you run your hand along her side, you should be able to feel her ribs (you may have to press a teensy bit if she is furry). I would go by body shape rather than weight. And your vet should be able to tell you too.
__________________ If you love something, set it free. Unless it's an angry tiger. |
05-05-2009, 07:57 AM | #7 |
Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,432
| Grains are not necessarily bad, unless the individual dog has allergies with specific grains. However, the ratio of grain in many foods is often considered too high. They can be fattening and don't have all of the needed nutrients. They just have to be fed in moderation. As far as dogs not eating grains and non-meats in the wild....not at all true. Not to mention, Yorkies as well as a multitude of other breeds, have NEVER been "wild" so that argument doesn't exactly apply. Last edited by BamaFan121s; 05-05-2009 at 07:59 AM. |
05-05-2009, 09:04 AM | #8 |
Snick&Viv= BFF Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,755
| I will attest that after taking our Snickers off of grains, the licking and scratching stopped!! He only licks his lips and us now. Oh and he will clean himself after peeing (gross!!) and the scratching is almost non-existant. We are super happy with the grainfree diet!! He was on Merrick Puppy Plate as a babe, and even though they use high quality grains, he itched and licked. Now he is on Evo and NV Raw Medallions and such a significant difference!!!
__________________ -Vivian Mommy to my cuddlebug baby boys-Snickers & Reesie |
05-07-2009, 05:09 AM | #9 |
YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 258
| Thanks so much for all the helpful replies. She has cut down a bit on the scratching and paw licking, without me changing anything. Maybe she's adapting to her new environment...and change of diet? I forgot to mention she was on Science Diet when she came and I immediately changed her over to Wellness...gradually, of course. I can barely feel her ribs...faintly, under about 3/8" of soft Zoey. She has quite a deep chest...I'm guessing that's the Chihuahua in her...
__________________ Debby...owned by Zoey, the no longer Porky Chorkie (or maybe Morkie!) |
05-07-2009, 07:05 AM | #10 |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Grains aren't bad - it's just that some dogs don't do well w/ some grains since dogs are carnivores, so grains aren't a "big" part of a carnivore's diet. It sounds like she could have some kind of allergy - which kind at this point is hard to tell (food, seasonal, environmental). I would really try to find out which, bc allergies can have a domino effect...and then more allergies set in. If you want to try a mid-range protein, grain free diet - one to think about would be Wellness CORE (either regular or Ocean). This is not a true elimination diet at all...but...it may help guide you where to go next in terms of food or whatever. And just fyi, when you make food changes - it can take up to 3mths to truly see results w/ allergens. If you do change the food, I would eliminate those wheat based treats too. I think most importantly though - has her skin been thoroughly evaluated by the vet? Bc I'd rule out yeast, fungus, and parasites before anything else, to be honest.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° |
05-07-2009, 07:09 AM | #11 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| THe only way to tell is to do an elimination diet. It could be the grains or the meat. Most dogs do okay on grains. Some don't. If she has itchy paws, ears and jaws, my first thought would be a food intolerance or allergy of some type. How does her skin look though because there are so many possibilities? Does Benadryl help the itching?
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
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