Royal Canine?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Speaking of the majority of vets with whom I've had experience ....if they followed the Hippocratic Oath of do no harm, not to mention following published studies PROVING, scientifically, that they should change protocols -- then overvaccination would have been a thing of the past years ago.

Instead, we hear of vet practices sending memos to their vets instructing them not to teach clients about Core vaccines and not to teach them about the 2003 AAHA findings or the 2006 AAHA findings. Why? Revenue, period. Vets who continue to overvaccinate, for years now, are not following the Hippocratic Oath, nor are they operating from science-based protocols. They are operating from a revenue-based protocol. That, to me , IS unethical.

They have foods on their shelves that contain (and clearly list) ethoxyquin and menadione, among other things. That, to me, IS unethical. With very little knowledge about nutrition (vast majority of vets), they are selling nutrition to their clients - clients who might have blind faith in the Vet's authority and knowledge of what they are selling. Sorry, but that bothers me greatly.

I'm just not looking for "relatively safe" vet care - which is why I will advocate to my last breath for my own dogs' health and others -- which may be in direct opposition to what is the current "norm" in many vet practices. Because it is the norm, it does not mean we should accept it or assume it is in our dogs' best health.

I don't mean to go off here, but I'm especially sensitive to this issue today - my vet made a massive mistake with Marcel today (and I also learned of one which she made a year ago). While I try to be diligent and attentive and knowledgeable - I failed. I trusted my vet too much and I should've trusted my gut.

And btw, I also think much of this applies to human doctors - a person should never just blindly trust a human doctor either. We should always inform ourselves about health, whether it be our own or that of a pet.

The problem with not looking for "relatively safe", is that while you might find something MUCH better, you could also find something MUCH worse, and only time will tell.

I'm really sorry to hear about Marcell, I hope he's OK, and of course I agree with you about being our dog's advocate and we should not put blind faith in our doctors, but why put so much faith in these Internet vets, and appointed experts?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by C C Kent

Science has given us the ability to produce a puppy food so high in available nutrients as to increase the growth rate of the bone in a puppy. The muscles, tendons, and ligaments that keep these bones, and joints, in proper alignment do not respond in the same way to the same nutrition. When the bones grow too fast, the misaligned growth becomes permanent if it's not corrected before the growth plates close. Some examples of this are extreme and others are less so. The large breed puppy is more susceptible because the growth rate is incredible, even without the super food. The ideal growth rate is the slowest growth possible given that all basic nutrition is afforded. This gives the DNA time to fulfill it's potential without a growth plate closing, making a nutritionally forced imbalance permanent.

Sorry I guess I didn't understand your original question.

[MaddiesMommie]

WOW! I love reading these questions about food, the passion we express is amazing! To the OP, I have tried Maddie on several foods. Luckily, she LOVES RC. I know it may not be rated as the "best" by the food rating sites, but it is certainly not the worst. She has shown no sign of allergies to this food. I know many do not like corn products in thier food, but as this is just a filler, which I feel is similar to potato products, fillers.
So far she is doing great on it. I have spent so many hours reading reviews of food it is not even funny. Everywhere I looked, there seemed a better food. Good luck in your food choice.

BTW, a very good freind of mine is a vet. So I asked the question about getting kickbacks. She said she has never heard of that. She carries Science Diet along with other brands. She says Science Diet seems more eager about keeping her office stocked than other brands, but no kickbacks.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Ann, I hope it wasn't anything that put Marcel at risk. With the itty-bitty guys, we have to be so careful. Even though it was the vet doing it, I know what you mean about the sense of failure. Best wishes for Marcel.

Thank you, Jim . He is okay and it's nothing life threatening at all. I'm probably worse off than he is bc, you nailed it, it's that sense that I failed him. And I just feel really badly for that . But all will be well once I stop beating myself up over it.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The problem with not looking for "relatively safe", is that while you might find something MUCH better, you could also find something MUCH worse, and only time will tell.

I'm really sorry to hear about Marcell, I hope he's OK, and of course I agree with you about being our dog's advocate and we should not put blind faith in our doctors, but why put so much faith in these Internet vets, and appointed experts?

I don't disagree with you, but nonetheless vets are not following what is often in the best interests of our pets, despite scientific proof - and I wish that was different bc I think it creates a lot of mistrust in the industry.

Thank you, he is fine - it's me who is suffering more . I don't think I put the majority of my faith anywhere, though I'd like to - I think I just look at all that I possibly can and make the best possible decision with what I have at hand.

[veggienut]

When I was reading the reviews on Royal Canine and other dogs foods, I see they mentioned ethoxyquin. I've never heard of it. What is it exactly~? I also never heard of menadione~? Is this in Royal Canine too~? I did see some of the foods that were mentioned were geared to large breed dogs, so perhaps not all foods are a good choice even tho it is highly rated. I am comfortable with Royal Canine and so is Maxwell.

[wemple2]

Very interesting reading...my thought is and will most likely always be, feed your dog what works for you. It may or may not be the highest rated food out there...and again, I'm not entirely sold on the highest rated foods. Yorkies are not working dogs, yes, they can be active at times, but not like some of the other breeds, they are for the most part, lap dogs...so therefore, I don't think they need a food with a high protein value. Moderation is what they need, and food that they will consistently eat...too many people are constantly changing their dogs food...and wonder why they are such picky eaters...feed them what they will eat on a daily basis...and stick with it.

[C C Kent]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Sorry I guess I didn't understand your original question.

I was just expanding on the point that you made about the food not being recommended for large breed puppies. Pat Hastings goes into detail on this in her Puppy Puzzle Lecture.

Our breed is not as likely to experience joint misalignment but the high level of protein can be difficult for the liver to process and the high calcium content can actually calcify arteries. In summary her recommendation is that premium puppy food is fine....as long as you don't give it to puppies.

[neceedee]

I introduce Royal Canine puppy food to Little Gracee when I got her at 7 weeks old, And she absolutely loves it It is tiny tiny bite size, easy for her to chew. I feel very comfortable with it. In my area, no one sells all the other major brands like everyone has mention. Sooooo... I had a HUGE problem with little Maggie ( Bless her little soul), when she was living, she just would not hardly eat anything at all. I vowed, when I got another puppy, If I found any one particular dog food it would eat....... That would be the one, and I will stick with it........forever......as long as Gracee will eat it. And she eats it well. Any one that has or had a baby that would not eat or very picky , you know where I am coming from.

[JacksonsMama]

We had it when we thought it was the best but it turns out it wasn't very good at all! We now feed jacks innova and he loves it!

[YoRkiE Te aMo]

if ur interested to see what is in the foods, here are some links to read:

Ethoxyquin

6-ethoxy-1,2-dihydro-2,2,4-trimethylquinoline. Antioxidant; also a post-harvest dip to prevent scald on apples and pears.
Originally developed by Monsanto as a stabilizer for rubber, Ethoxyquin has also been used as a pesticide for fruit and a color preservative for spices, and later for animal feed. The original FDA permit for use as stabilizer in animal feed limited use to two years and did not include pet food, but it falls under the same legal category. It has never been proven to be safe for the lifespan of a companion animal.It has been linked to thyroid, kidney, reproductive and immune related illnesses as well as cancer, but so far no conclusive, reliable research results either for the safety of this product or against it have not been obtained. Monsanto conducted research years ago, but results were so inconclusive due to unprofessional conduct and documentation that the FDA demanded another study. There are currently several studies underway to determine whether Ethoxyquin is safe or not, and until those studies are completed, pet food suppliers may continue to use Ethoxyquin. This is how things stand after about 6 years, and no new details have emerged so far.

menadione :
The Dog Food Project - Menadione (Vitamin K3)

and the whole list :

u can check out all the ingredients here in dog foods :
The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid

[chestermama]

merrick, orjien, solid gold, wellness, canidaie, innova are some good brands with no corn filler or icky preservatives, royal canin is the same as waltham and they have had some recalls Im pretty sure.

[Ellie May]

Royal Canin (some types) have made lots of Yorkies very itchy. It would not be my first choice for a Yorkie nor my last.

About the corn, I don't really mind it too much. It may be cheap but it is also a great source of energy and linoleic (the oil fatty acid that dogs need to consume). Is it digestible? I guess it should be grouped with other grains and if you don't think that grain is digestible enough, go with grain free.

Apparently beef, wheat and dairy products are the food intolerances most reported by vet dermatologists. At the same time, soy is probably on that list somewhere. So if you want to avoid all ingredients with a higher incidence of reaction, all of these would need to be avoided.

I don't put any emphasis on breed specific food because two different breeds can easily do well on the same food. Glucosamine is added to Yorkie-specific food probably because of their likelihood of having LP. Great idea but is that really in a therapeutic dose? Is it from the correct source? If yes, it would be expensive. I would sooner give Cosequin and know for sure. Higher proteiin has never been shown to cause kidney problems but the amount should be lowered if a problem comes up. While I don't think high protein is necessary personally, I don't think it's a big deal either. It's an expensive energy source but if that's what you want, that's fine.

While I cannot give actual studies of the risks of ethoxyquin (because evidently it's never been proven dangerous in the amounts that are put in pet food), I personally have a big problem giving my dog a chemical that is banned in other countries. I also don't like BHA and BHT and try not to eat it myself. Why would I give it to Ellie?

Dogfoodanalysis is a good starting place to look at ingredients but just because they say something is good or bad does not make it true. And just because a vet sells something does not make it a good product and it does not make it safe (like the lepto vaccine for Yorkies, some forms of heartworm meds that should be avoided, etc.).

[Rockdiva]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Speaking of the majority of vets with whom I've had experience ....if they followed the Hippocratic Oath of do no harm, not to mention following published studies PROVING, scientifically, that they should change protocols -- then overvaccination would have been a thing of the past years ago.

Instead, we hear of vet practices sending memos to their vets instructing them not to teach clients about Core vaccines and not to teach them about the 2003 AAHA findings or the 2006 AAHA findings. Why? Revenue, period. Vets who continue to overvaccinate, for years now, are not following the Hippocratic Oath, nor are they operating from science-based protocols. They are operating from a revenue-based protocol. That, to me , IS unethical.

They have foods on their shelves that contain (and clearly list) ethoxyquin and menadione, among other things. That, to me, IS unethical. With very little knowledge about nutrition (vast majority of vets), they are selling nutrition to their clients - clients who might have blind faith in the Vet's authority and knowledge of what they are selling. Sorry, but that bothers me greatly.

I'm just not looking for "relatively safe" vet care - which is why I will advocate to my last breath for my own dogs' health and others -- which may be in direct opposition to what is the current "norm" in many vet practices. Because it is the norm, it does not mean we should accept it or assume it is in our dogs' best health.

I don't mean to go off here, but I'm especially sensitive to this issue today - my vet made a massive mistake with Marcel today (and I also learned of one which she made a year ago). While I try to be diligent and attentive and knowledgeable - I failed. I trusted my vet too much and I should've trusted my gut.

And btw, I also think much of this applies to human doctors - a person should never just blindly trust a human doctor either. We should always inform ourselves about health, whether it be our own or that of a pet.

Girl, I swear we were separated at birth!!! When I saw this post yesterday, I wrote a long reply saying the SAME THING!! I mentioned about soooo many vets doing the vaccines incorrectly also. Giving multiple shots in one injection in one area, which is incorrect according to AAHA guidelines (which sets the protocol for which all vets are supposed to practice)! I also talked about how little knowledge most vets have on canine nutrition and diet because there is very little time spent (if any) in school on it. And that has come from several vets that I know! Nutrition has just become a hot topic in recent years, but many of these diets have been around for a very long time. There is just more awareness of it now, not that its all fads or trends. BUT....when I went to post it, it disappeared on me and said I wasn't logged in! I didn't have time or patience to type it all again!!! But there you go speaking my mind for me again! haha I hope your baby is ok! Let me know if you need to vent!!! I totally understand your frustration with the vet situation! You know it took me a very long time to get one I am comfortable with! Just come here and see Dr Messionnier!!

[Honeys Mama]

My Honey eats IAMS and she's just fine. Royal Canin here is WAY too expensive on the economy and they dont sell it in the PX so my choices are science diet, IAMS, pedigree..... I was told IAMS was the best and so far it is. She only poops maybe 2-3 times a day and its a nice consistency and small...

[viviansnickers]

I'm so glad your pup is doing ok on the Iams but I have to let you know that Iams has been linked multiple times to testing on animals....there are some horrid videos on youtube.com, they are so heartbreaking. So many dog owners have no idea about these things, so just trying to get the word out.

Smiles--