Interesting- Dog Food

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

I did find a very good article lastnight, and purina pro plan is good, and also Purina is AAFCO for whoever said something about that. This is what a diet and canine nutritionalist says
en.allexperts.com/q/Dog-Food-Canine-3799/2008/10/best-dogfood-small-breed.htm

Hi, the article didn't say purina pro was good. i mean, it's not an article about that brand of dog food. the person just said to find what works for your dog basically, and that basically people had said bad things about every brand of dog food out there.

also, just for your info., the guy that answered that question is not a diet and canine nutritionist. He just works with dogs, his degree is in chemistry. (Labman - Dog Food (Canine Diet and Nutrition) - Dogs - Animals/Pets - AllExperts.com)

honestly, i am not trying to be rude as i know that you are trying to share with us info that you are coming across, which i do appreciate. but i just have to really disagree with you on this particular recommendation because i want what's best for these little furbabies.

thanks.

[maggiemommy]

i asked my vet and he said regular purina is not good that purina one is ok but still not the best

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Also, here, I'm asking this nicely, go pick this apart for me, this is a purina pro plan, and this is the one I'm going to buy, so please, look over the ingredients, and tell me what's so bad, as I don't see anything. Thanks
Natural Salmon and Brown Rice Formula - Products - Purina® Pro Plan®

hi again,
the ingredients didn't look bad at all. but i am not an expert. i mean, i guess, you can get a salad from mcdonalds. which is healthy for you...

i will leave it to others who are more knowledgeable in nutrition to give you feed back on what they think about the ingredients, and i would also be interested to read what they say about it.

just curious, how much is this food you're looking at? the pro plan select?

the reason i would not want to feed anything that most of the chain pet supply store carry is because they mostly only work with companies that put a lot of preservatives in the dog foods. (because they require a long shelf life time because they want to be able to keep their dog foods in the storage for years...again, just greed for profit, no concern for animal health there)

good luck to you in your quest to find the best food for your furbabies, i know you are trying to do the best for your babies as well.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

hi again,
the ingredients didn't look bad at all. but i am not an expert. i mean, i guess, you can get a salad from mcdonalds. which is healthy for you...

i will leave it to others who are more knowledgeable in nutrition to give you feed back on what they think about the ingredients, and i would also be interested to read what they say about it.

just curious, how much is this food you're looking at? the pro plan select?

the reason i would not want to feed anything that most of the chain pet supply store carry is because they mostly only work with companies that put a lot of preservatives in the dog foods. (because they require a long shelf life time because they want to be able to keep their dog foods in the storage for years...again, just greed for profit, no concern for animal health there)

good luck to you in your quest to find the best food for your furbabies, i know you are trying to do the best for your babies as well.

I know you can't get this at the grocery store or at walmart, I'm not sure about pet smart, I'm hoping my pet store in town has it..Like I said, I have 6 dogs, I can't (with the economy like it is) be spending more on my dogs food, than mine and my hubbys, if anything happens to me, these dogs would all have to be looking for new homes, as my husband travels. So, I want to find something they do well on for less money, I'm not single, Like a lot of the girls on here, I have someone besides myself and my dogs

[tumismom]

IMO, It makes me feel better that my kids are on the best possible diet. therefore, I give them NV raw and also Homecook meal planned by a nutrionist. Yes, it cost more than premium kibbles or even MORE than garbage kibbles they sell in grocery stores and etc. I would give them premium kibbles if I run out of raw or homecook but never the garbage ones they sell at the grocery stores even if they say the are approved by AAFCO. I made a commitment when I got my kiddos that I would give them the best and it is part of my responsibility to make sure they get it.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

I know you can't get this at the grocery store or at walmart, I'm not sure about pet smart, I'm hoping my pet store in town has it..Like I said, I have 6 dogs, I can't (with the economy like it is) be spending more on my dogs food, than mine and my hubbys, if anything happens to me, these dogs would all have to be looking for new homes, as my husband travels. So, I want to find something they do well on for less money, I'm not single, Like a lot of the girls on here, I have someone besides myself and my dogs

i understand your concerns. do you know how much it cost to purchase the food you are looking at? i am just curious, and would like to see if it is indeed less expensive than other brands.

thanks.

[phfgkl]

No not yet, going to go to the pet store in a little bit. I know canidae is good, or should I say was good. I know since they've changed their formula, I just read, where there have been a lot of dogs having problems with it. Well, actually there was a whole long page of complaints. Trying to find a good dog food, that won't break the bank and is yet good for the dogs, is kind of hard to do. Like I said, I don't just have 2 little yorkies, I have 2 biewers, 1 yorkie one shih tzu, a german shepherd and a golden retriever, I can't afford to be buying raw, which I don't think is really too good myself,(IMO), but, I want a good kibble that all my dogs can eat but, yet won't break me when I buy it. Like I said, if anything happens to me, my dogs will be having to find new homes. As it is, I've alwayst taken them to the vets, before I've gone to the Dr.

[Hannah3183]

I feed mine Wellness which is $17 for a 6lb bag. She used to be on Diamond which was around $7 for a 20lb bag. She went through that bigger bag MUCH quicker than she has Wellness. That little 6 lb bag will last us MONTHS, whereas the diamond did not. Higher quality ingredients may cost more up front, but fill your dog up on less food - and therefore each bag will last you longer than a cheaper food. I've also noticed an extreme difference in her coat since switching her to a premium food, as well as an increase in energy.

To each his own, but you may find that you won't be spending as much as you think you will on a higher quality food simply because it will last you longer. Therefore, you'll save money in the long run.

Wasn't Pro Plan recalled this past summer??

I also choose to educate myself about the food I and my dog eat, instead of listening to what tv reporters tell me.

[stedmansmommy]

I'm not trying to sound rude but it's probably going to come off that way (I don't mean it to, I swear). But if you can't see the nutritional differences by reading the ingredient list on a bag of Purina or Pedigree versus a bag of EVO, Nature's Variety or Natural Balance (or whatever) well - then I just don't know There really IS a difference. It's right there in the list of ingredients on the back of the bags of food printed as clear as day.

It sounds to me that the issue here, with you, is not so much that you don't want to feed your babies something that is good for them, because I for one believe that you DO - but maybe it's the PRICE. It sounds like perhaps you can quite afford the higher quality brands out there because, yes, SOME of them do have a higher price tag. That being said, maybe you are trying to convince yourself, and us, that the cheaper foods are "just as good" and are "ok" to feed because of this very reason. The thing is, most people here know that there IS a difference in the quality of different brands of dog foods, so they (we) are firm in this knowledge and feel very strongly about it.

No matter what we disagree on though, you do have alot of dogs (I myself have 4, plus our cat) and I do have to say that at least you are FEEDING your babies. So many dogs out there are neglected and don't get ANY food AT ALL. However, to actually "recommend" the lower quality foods I just simply don't agree with. BUT - we all have our opinions

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Also, here, I'm asking this nicely, go pick this apart for me, this is a purina pro plan, and this is the one I'm going to buy, so please, look over the ingredients, and tell me what's so bad, as I don't see anything. Thanks
Natural Salmon and Brown Rice Formula - Products - Purina® Pro Plan®

Well first of all, it contains menadione which is linked to liver failure and is currentlyl being taken out of many higher quality dog food brands.

Here is more information: The Dog Food Project - Menadione (Vitamin K3)

Second, there is no guarantee that the food is ethoxyquin free. Ethoxyquin is a preservative added to fish meal and is believed to be carcinogenic.

Third, while the first ingredient listed is a meat, it is not listed as a meal meaning that it is inclusive of water content - if you were to take out the water, it would probably be listed much further down the list. The first real meat is listed third, meaning there is probably not a substantial amount of meat.

Also, a class action lawsuit was filed against Purina Pro Plan for misleading advertisements about the quality of their ingredients. Class Action - Purina Pro Plan

Sorry, but that's enough to send me running!

[PrincessDiana]

I forgot to add this and it cut me off---

Lastly - compare the ingredients in Purina Pro Plan Selects and what I feed, Wellness Core.

Purina Pro Plan Selects
INGREDIENTS:
Salmon, brown rice, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), oat meal, canola meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pearled barley, dried egg product, brewers dried yeast, natural flavor, potassium chloride, salt, dried sweet potatoes, blueberry pomace, dried tomatoes, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, choline chloride, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), niacin, copper proteinate, calcium carbonate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

Wellness CORE
Ingredients:
Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.

I mean, look at all of the recognizable ingredients in Wellness CORE compared to the Pro Plan Selects. That alone, even if I knew nothing else about nutrition, would be enough to convince me.

[browniesmom622]

High-quality food should NOT contain the following:

Food fragments. Fragments are lower-cost by-products of another food manufacturing process such as brewer's rice (a waste product of the alcohol industry), wheat flour, and rice flour. Most foods contain at least one fragment as makers attempt to keep the food affordable.

Meat by-products. Using an animal by-product (or more than one animal by-product) for a food's main protein source is indicative of a low-quality product. (i.e. chicken by-product). Animal by-products are any part of an animal not acceptable for human consumption. Ingredients listed as by-products are not required to include actual meat.

Corn gluten meal in dog food. Corn gluten meal is a concentrated source of protein that can be substituted for costlier animal protein. In many bargain dry dog foods, corn gluten meal provides a large proportion or the total protein in the food rather than more digestible forms of protein such as meat.


INDICATORS OF A LOW-QUALITY FOOD
Generic fats or proteins. Animal fat can be just about anything; recycled grease from restaurants or an unwholesome "mystery mix" of fats. Animal protein is far inferior to beef protein or chicken protein.

Artificial preservatives. BHA, BHT, Ethoxyquin, and propylene glycol. Have been known to cause cancer.

Artificial colors. Your pet doesn't care what color his food is and doesn't need daily, lifetime exposure to these unnecessary chemicals.
Sweeteners. Corn syrup, sucrose, sugar, ammoniated glycyrrhizin, and other sweeteners are sometimes added to lower-quality foods to increase their appeal. Dietary sugar can aggravate health problems in pets including diabetes.

Flavors. A high-quality food does not require flavoring to be palatable.

Corn products in dog food. The presence of corn products - particularly if they are high on the list of ingredients - may indicate that corn has been used instead of a more expensive alternative. About 25% of the corn produced in the U.S. today is genetically modified. Corn is more difficult to digest either by humans or dogs.

[browniesmom622]

Bad Dog Food
Ladies and gentleman, hold on to your hats. We?re about to tell you what bad dog food is, what?s in it, and who makes it. It?s not pretty.

The major dog food manufacturers are producing nothing but bad dog food. That may seem to be a grandiose claim, but there is a plethora of evidence to prove it. Behind the colorful bags, the jingles, the slogans, the commercials ? major dog food brands supply one thing: bad dog food. It?s an injustice to all dogs and dog lovers. What these producers of bad dog food are really offering your favorite furry friend is a foul admixture of disgusting by-products and a cornucopia of toxic chemicals.


When cattle, chickens, lambs, swine, and other animals are slaughtered for food, it?s common that just the lean muscle is cut and used for human consumption. The left over carcass is then sent to a rendering plant, along with all the other waste that is around. This foul mess is rendered and will soon become bad dog food. What this amounts to is an appalling mixture of chicken feet, dead animals, euthanized dogs and cats, lungs, ligaments, beaks, teeth, intestines, and more. This bad dog food is cleaned up with the all-encompassing label of ?meat-and-bone meal? and ?by-products? on the outside of the bag.

Have you heard of the ?4 D?s?? The ?4 D?s? encompass the kind of cattle that are sent to rendering plants:

Dead
Dying
Diseased
Disabled

When all of this putrid material comes to the rendering plant, it's put in a huge vat and shredded. It?s then cooked at 220 to 270 degrees for 20 to 60 minutes. After it cools, the grease is skimmed off the top. This is "animal fat." The rest is pressed and dried. This is what?s called "meat and bone meal? and ?by-products? ? otherwise known as bad dog food.

Who?s Responsible?

Huge corporate conglomerates use pet food companies as a cheap and profitable way to dispose of waste produced by their human food companies:

Corporation
Pet Food Brands

Nestle
Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Purina One

Heinz
9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe

Colgate-Palmolive
Hill's Science Diet

Proctor & Gamble
Eukanuba, Iams

Mars
Kal Kan, Mealtime, Pedigree, Sheba, Waltham's

So why do dogs eat this bad dog food? Their senses are being duped. To make this bad dog food pleasing to the eyes and noses of our canine pals is nothing more than a lesson in chemistry.


Some of the chemicals used in pet food include:

BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
BHT (butylated hydroxytolulene) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
Ethoxyquin - suspected of causing cancer
Propylene glycol - causes the destruction of red blood cells
Some other things that may be added to bad dog food are:

Coloring agents
Drying agents
Flavoring agents
Lubricants
Texturizers

Let's look at those ingredients:

...THE GRAIN
Virtually all artificial diets are heavily based on grains and cereals. But dogs are not cows. A dog has the large stomach and short straight digestive tract required to digest meat. A cow has several small stomachs and the long winding digestive tract required to digest fibrous grain. The two are not interchangeable!
Even worse, many dogs are allergic to corn and soybean and wheat. They develop chronic digestive problems (loose stools, spitting up, gassiness) or itchy skin. You'll see them licking their feet or rubbing their face against the carpet. You might never think to associate these problems with the grain in your dog's diet, but that is often the case.


Finally, the quality of this grain is suspect. The good grain is reserved for the human market. What goes into the pet food bin is deemed unfit for human consumption. Mold, rancidity, contaminants -- yuck!

...THE MEAT
Contrary to what they show you on the TV commercials, don't even think about sirloin. Your dog gets:

The "4D" meat that didn't make the cut for the human market, which means it came from livestock that was diseased, disabled, dying, or already dead when it arrived at the slaughterhouse.

The "by-products" -- a catch-all term used by the pet food industry to mean anything stripped off the carcass other than meat, i.e. beaks, feet, head, lungs, blood, and other unmentionables.

To make matters worse, the meat and byproducts are laced with the hormones fed to the livestock to make them grow faster, and the antibiotics fed to the livestock to prevent massive outbreaks of disease in their crowded living conditions. These hormones and antibiotics trickle through to your dog.

...THE GREASY FAT
Many dogs gobble up their kibble, yes -- because it's sprayed with greasy fat to make it smell yummy. But we don't allow our children to eat only junk food because they love the smell or taste, do we?

The relish with which a dog eats doesn't indicate whether something is "good" for him.

...THE CHEMICAL PRESERVATIVES
Preservatives are always used in artificial diets so the bags and cans last longer. That's convenient for the manufacturer, yes, who can leave it sitting in his warehouse for a long time. Convenient for the retailer who can leave it sitting on his shelf for a long time. Convenient for the owner who can dish it out for a long time.

But what is this stuff
that keeps ingredients
from spoiling?

The most common pet food preservatives are:

Ethoxyquin -- which is actually manufactured by the giant chemical corporation Monsanto as a rubber preservative. The containers are marked POISON. The Department of Agriculture lists it as a pesticide. OSHA lists it as a hazardous chemical.

BHA and BHT -- both of which cause liver and kidney dysfunction, and bladder and stomach cancer.

These chemicals are all banned in Europe.

Most pet foods list these preservatives right on the bag or can, but even when it doesn't say so, it's usually in there, anyway.

How can this be? Because a legal loophole allows manufacturers to only list what THEY themselves put into the bag. If they buy some of their ingredients from a supplier who has already added the chemical to those ingredients... The pet food company doesn't have to disclose that on the bag. Isn't that nice?

Australian veterinarian Dr. Ian Billinghurst says: "If you look at the ingredient list on a can or a bag of pet food -- with understanding -- you will realize that what is being listed is a heap of rubbish. Definitely not the wholesome nutritious food you would want to feed to a valued member of your family!"

How commercial pet foods affect your dog's health?

Every day, unhappy dogs & cats parade through veterinary offices. They suffer from:

itching skin

hot spots

dandruff

excessive fur loss/shedding

foot-licking

face-rubbing

loose stools

gassiness

stinky dog breath

stinky cat breath

weight problems

What are these dogs eating? Artificial diets, virtually every one of them.

"Most modern dog owners are taught to believe that feeding dogs is such a difficult task, it is best left to the dog food companies. Nothing could be further from the truth." -- Dr. Billinghurst

Do the research -- It?s worth it!

What Is Your Dog Eating

[Lolapup]

Originally Posted by stedmansmommy

I'm not trying to sound rude but it's probably going to come off that way (I don't mean it to, I swear). But if you can't see the nutritional differences by reading the ingredient list on a bag of Purina or Pedigree versus a bag of EVO, Nature's Variety or Natural Balance (or whatever) well - then I just don't know There really IS a difference. It's right there in the list of ingredients on the back of the bags of food printed as clear as day.

It sounds to me that the issue here, with you, is not so much that you don't want to feed your babies something that is good for them, because I for one believe that you DO - but maybe it's the PRICE. It sounds like perhaps you can quite afford the higher quality brands out there because, yes, SOME of them do have a higher price tag. That being said, maybe you are trying to convince yourself, and us, that the cheaper foods are "just as good" and are "ok" to feed because of this very reason. The thing is, most people here know that there IS a difference in the quality of different brands of dog foods, so they (we) are firm in this knowledge and feel very strongly about it.

No matter what we disagree on though, you do have alot of dogs (I myself have 4, plus our cat) and I do have to say that at least you are FEEDING your babies. So many dogs out there are neglected and don't get ANY food AT ALL. However, to actually "recommend" the lower quality foods I just simply don't agree with. BUT - we all have our opinions

Well said!
I can't wrap my head around the fact that you can't see the nutritional difference. So many have given personal experience information yet it seems to be ignored. You said that you didn't think raw was a good idea. I do feed raw. Again, do your research. In fact, it's cheaper than feeding premium kibble and a whole lot healthier. Good luck!

[phfgkl]

Okay, just got back from the pet store a bit ago. I looked through all the bags of food that I was interested in(I had down to look at canidae, innova, solid gold, wellness and one other. anyway, I looked at the innova evo, and decided against that, it had way too much protein in it 40%, which I know is not good for their liver, so did decide on the solid gold weebits or something like that. It has no fillers, no grain, wheat or soy, and looked like a great food. The canidae she said, since they changed their formula, isn't as good anymore. She said they have lost a lot of repeat buyers in there that were buying the canidae. So, hopefully this one will be good for them. The nice thing is that it is small bites, so, the little ones can eat it better. I had done a check on the pro plan with the salmon, and the ingredients didn't look bad at all in that one, but, hubby said get one and stay on it.