Bad Experience with Revolution (Selamectin)

[DogtorJ]

Hi Julie822,

I just joined the forum after finding this thread on Revolution. I frequent search the Internet for reported reactions to this product because it is the main flea product and heartworm preventative that I use in my practice. The main reason for this is that selemectin is a "pesticide" (kills fleas) but is not an insecticide by category. It is actually an antibiotic (in the avermectin group) along with ivermectin, the active ingredient in Heartgard. All insecticides are known carcinogens and I decided a long time ago that it was illogical to pour insecticides all over a species that was already gobbled up with cancer, the leading form of which is skin cancer. Kinda falls into the "duh" category, doesn't it?

I have been using selemectin without significant incident since its release. The only side effect I have observed is transient local hair loss in the cat. I have never heard of any dogs experiencing what you did in your pet.

I am interested in your story but have to believe that the annual vaccines were more likely to cause Diesel's problems than the selemectin. We do see a wide variety of vaccine reactions, some of which occur within minutes to hours of receiving them. I was wondering if he has had any vaccines since and if he had any more problems.

Hopefully you are not vaccinating him more than once every 3 years for Rabies, Distemper and Parvo. Sadly, most vets are still over-vaccinating pets by doing them annually. But the AHA changed their recommendations over two years ago to every three years for these vaccines.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions,
John B. Symes, DVM (aka "Dogtor J")

[yorkymom1]

I use Sentinal for all 3 of mine.
7 lbs, 4 lbs, and 3lbs 12oz.
I've never had any issues with it and its pretty easy to give them once a month since its in pill form. a peanut butter wrapped pill is a treat to them
I've never used Revolution before.

[Wrenee4]

We use Revolution on all of ours, but each dog is different and can have a reaction. I would never use Revolution again on him if it was me as it seems like his body just cant handle it. Thank goodness he is ok!!!

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by DogtorJ

Hi Julie822,

I just joined the forum after finding this thread on Revolution. I frequent search the Internet for reported reactions to this product because it is the main flea product and heartworm preventative that I use in my practice. The main reason for this is that selemectin is a "pesticide" (kills fleas) but is not an insecticide by category. It is actually an antibiotic (in the avermectin group) along with ivermectin, the active ingredient in Heartgard. All insecticides are known carcinogens and I decided a long time ago that it was illogical to pour insecticides all over a species that was already gobbled up with cancer, the leading form of which is skin cancer. Kinda falls into the "duh" category, doesn't it?

I have been using selemectin without significant incident since its release. The only side effect I have observed is transient local hair loss in the cat. I have never heard of any dogs experiencing what you did in your pet.

I am interested in your story but have to believe that the annual vaccines were more likely to cause Diesel's problems than the selemectin. We do see a wide variety of vaccine reactions, some of which occur within minutes to hours of receiving them. I was wondering if he has had any vaccines since and if he had any more problems.

Hopefully you are not vaccinating him more than once every 3 years for Rabies, Distemper and Parvo. Sadly, most vets are still over-vaccinating pets by doing them annually. But the AHA changed their recommendations over two years ago to every three years for these vaccines.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions,
John B. Symes, DVM (aka "Dogtor J")

Hi "Dogtor J",

Welcome to YT, it's great to have a vet's insight! I understand the issue of long term pesticide use but am wondering about the long term usage of even an antibiotic for flea control?

I'm certain Ruby's reaction was to the Revolution as it was the only medication applied (no vaccines) that day. I now try to avoid any flea meds on the dogs and prefer treating our yard, keeping the bedding and carpets cleaned and using Dawn soap to kill the few fleas we've had.

[DogtorJ]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Hi "Dogtor J",

Welcome to YT, it's great to have a vet's insight! I understand the issue of long term pesticide use but am wondering about the long term usage of even an antibiotic for flea control?

I'm certain Ruby's reaction was to the Revolution as it was the only medication applied (no vaccines) that day. I now try to avoid any flea meds on the dogs and prefer treating our yard, keeping the bedding and carpets cleaned and using Dawn soap to kill the few fleas we've had.

Hi Jen. Thanks for the welcome.

First of all, in re-reading my original post, I realized (and too late to correct it) that I stated something backwards, which I need to correct. Revolution is an "insecticide" (kills fleas) but NOT a registered "pesticide" by the FDA. All of the harmful, carcinogenic flea products out there on the market are pesticides (as well as being insecticides) by category. Again to clarify: Anything that kills insects/fleas can be termed an insecticide, including natural products derived from citrus. But not all are labeled as "pesticides", the term restricted for the more powerful (and potentially dangerous) products. I hope that is clear.

As far as your case goes, I am interested to know more about it. There have been a number of reactions to selamectin listed, but as I wrote earlier, I have not seen in any in my practice other than hair loss.

Which brings up the topic of why this occurs: Why do many, many individuals have no issues with a drug while a small group experience a side effect? This is actually a much more interesting question than many think. We usually write it off to being "the way things are" or "genetics" but those are very superficial and even "non-answers". I have actually done some research into this topic and found some interesting things.

One of the main reasons that one individual reacts negatively is the co-existence of other problems, such as the liver, kidneys or other organ not working properly. This is especially true of drugs/chemicals metabolized
or targeted by those organs. On the other hand, some individuals are subclinically ill with malnutrition and experiencing immune deficiencies, enzyme deficiencies, or the like that set them up for a reaction. This is MUCH more common than we realize and one of the reasons why food intolerants (e.g. those with celiac disease) are sooo prone to illness and drug reactions to those compounds used to treat their illness. It's like a catch 22. This is common, for example, among epileptics and their medications, which has become my specialty (the dietary control of epilepsy being the most remarkable discovery of my life).

But this now makes perfect sense. Those who are at risk to illnesses (e.g. allergies, "autoimmune disease" or cancer) are also the ones at risk to having adverse drug reactions, for many of the same reasons they are at risk to the disease they are fighting. Thankfully, much of this can be reversed using proper nutrition and avoidance of known triggers (drugs/vaccines/carcinogens).

So, when I have a pet who has an adverse reaction to a drug or vaccine, I don't just "treat" that by avoiding it in the future. I make a major note of it, make sure that I am not over-looking something important, and keep my eyes peeled for anything else that might need to be checked (e.g. thyroid, liver, blood cells). We know that the breeds of dogs that are most prone to vaccine reactions are the ones who will suffer the most immune mediated diseases down the road. Some of this may be due to the vaccines themselves, but as in the case of autistic children, there was likely to be something already wrong in that individual that set them up for that negative vaccine reaction. That's how you explain why millions of children get the same vaccine and have no problem. The vaccine WAS a major trigger in those cases but there is a reason why that relatively small group reacted so negatively. Many of these same kids do phenomenally well on GFCF diets (gluten-free/casein-free diets) and this speaks to why they did so poorly after the vaccine. The food intolerance set them up for the catastrophic reaction to the vaccine.

This is also clearly the case in the dog, as the dogs that commonly react so negatively to vaccines are also from the most food allergic breeds, with food intolerance (e.g. gluten intolerance) being the reason they became allergic to that food (e.g. wheat). Dairy, soy and corn can all do the exact same as gluten, and that is why they are the top food allergens in pets and people....and why more and more pet food manufacturers are so proud to say that their foods don't contain them. (except for those who are deceived into thinking that corn is OK for dogs. It's not!)

I hope this helps,
John

[Princes mom]

I use Revolution on Prince and really like it. He's been on it for about a year, I think. He has tried most, if not all, of the pill forms, and all of them made him extremely sick. Heartgard was the last pill form that he took, and it make him vomit profusely, and shake...we thought he was having a seizure!!! He is very sensitive to internal drugs. The only reaction he has had with Revolution is to try to wipe / rub it off for about 10 minutes, then he's fine. He has always used the whole vile, as prescribed by his vet.

[sandy simpson]

Last year after lots of research I used Revolution on my two Yorkies. I really was scared but I am happy to say I had no reactions from the dogs from that med. Now this hear I am wondering after I read some bad reactions dogs have had to it. What is safe out there to use? I am reading all the adverse reactions to the meds out there and am totally scared to put anything on them. They are not allowed to pee near a bush or get close to grass. What to use?

[pstinard]

My 12 week old Yorkie Bella got sleepy after I applied the puppy dose of Revolution to her, but I was told to expect that, and she snapped out of it after a few hours with no problems.

[GetRealFit]

Originally Posted by DogtorJ

Hi Jen. Thanks for the welcome.

First of all, in re-reading my original post, I realized (and too late to correct it) that I stated something backwards, which I need to correct. Revolution is an "insecticide" (kills fleas) but NOT a registered "pesticide" by the FDA. All of the harmful, carcinogenic flea products out there on the market are pesticides (as well as being insecticides) by category. Again to clarify: Anything that kills insects/fleas can be termed an insecticide, including natural products derived from citrus. But not all are labeled as "pesticides", the term restricted for the more powerful (and potentially dangerous) products. I hope that is clear.

As far as your case goes, I am interested to know more about it. There have been a number of reactions to selamectin listed, but as I wrote earlier, I have not seen in any in my practice other than hair loss.

Which brings up the topic of why this occurs: Why do many, many individuals have no issues with a drug while a small group experience a side effect? This is actually a much more interesting question than many think. We usually write it off to being "the way things are" or "genetics" but those are very superficial and even "non-answers". I have actually done some research into this topic and found some interesting things.

One of the main reasons that one individual reacts negatively is the co-existence of other problems, such as the liver, kidneys or other organ not working properly. This is especially true of drugs/chemicals metabolized
or targeted by those organs. On the other hand, some individuals are subclinically ill with malnutrition and experiencing immune deficiencies, enzyme deficiencies, or the like that set them up for a reaction. This is MUCH more common than we realize and one of the reasons why food intolerants (e.g. those with celiac disease) are sooo prone to illness and drug reactions to those compounds used to treat their illness. It's like a catch 22. This is common, for example, among epileptics and their medications, which has become my specialty (the dietary control of epilepsy being the most remarkable discovery of my life).

But this now makes perfect sense. Those who are at risk to illnesses (e.g. allergies, "autoimmune disease" or cancer) are also the ones at risk to having adverse drug reactions, for many of the same reasons they are at risk to the disease they are fighting. Thankfully, much of this can be reversed using proper nutrition and avoidance of known triggers (drugs/vaccines/carcinogens).

So, when I have a pet who has an adverse reaction to a drug or vaccine, I don't just "treat" that by avoiding it in the future. I make a major note of it, make sure that I am not over-looking something important, and keep my eyes peeled for anything else that might need to be checked (e.g. thyroid, liver, blood cells). We know that the breeds of dogs that are most prone to vaccine reactions are the ones who will suffer the most immune mediated diseases down the road. Some of this may be due to the vaccines themselves, but as in the case of autistic children, there was likely to be something already wrong in that individual that set them up for that negative vaccine reaction. That's how you explain why millions of children get the same vaccine and have no problem. The vaccine WAS a major trigger in those cases but there is a reason why that relatively small group reacted so negatively. Many of these same kids do phenomenally well on GFCF diets (gluten-free/casein-free diets) and this speaks to why they did so poorly after the vaccine. The food intolerance set them up for the catastrophic reaction to the vaccine.

This is also clearly the case in the dog, as the dogs that commonly react so negatively to vaccines are also from the most food allergic breeds, with food intolerance (e.g. gluten intolerance) being the reason they became allergic to that food (e.g. wheat). Dairy, soy and corn can all do the exact same as gluten, and that is why they are the top food allergens in pets and people....and why more and more pet food manufacturers are so proud to say that their foods don't contain them. (except for those who are deceived into thinking that corn is OK for dogs. It's not!)

I hope this helps,
John

Thank you so much for your input. My dog has severe allergies. They are to mites, fleas and human dander plus some other minor issues. She is on a new drug called Apoquel. She had skin tests in September 2013 which revealed her issue. Her allergy response started suddenly on her birthday in July of 2013. She went thru treatment for scabies due to the intensity of her scratching. It was not scabies. It is allergies. She is on a serum. Her dermatologist wants her to use Revolution. I have never used chemicals on my dogs. I use a flea comb daily and treat my yard. Her doctor is concerned about her allergy to fleas and wants extra protection. My problem with that is what you said. The dogs who have reactions are those who are already ill. Betty had a good immune system when checked in September and is due for another check because she is on an immune suppressor. Would it be wise to use Revolution on a dog who is compromised. She has had skin reactions to all but one shampoo prescribed for her condition. Her skin is still breaking out due to bacteria. She has hair loss and still chews to the point of wounds if not wearing a cone. What would you do with a dog like this?

[Lilah Charm]

Lilah uses revolution, we have had no reactions. Frontline has be come largely in effective in our area. Heartworm is taking hold I oregon but has not traditionally been a problem. They give us the 'cat dose' for five and under and recommend comfortis if she ever got over five pounds (she is one year old any 4.6). I'm pleased to see a vet on here as well thanks doc!

[GetRealFit]

I have been doing tons of research and found this article. I took a screen shot topical gets on owners skin.png I have super sensitive skin. I have to work with a dermatologist. I get rashes and hives from lots of topical products. I also have rosacea on my face and my eyes. After reading this I'm thinking I may need a pill form of protection. Has anyone had a reaction from Revolution or any other topical product?

[sandy simpson]

I hate using these pesticides. I used Revolution on my two boys, did not use the whole tube. I just used it in the summer. I am now scared and will research other methods to keep fleas and heartworms away. The vet said Triflexis but no way for that stuff. Let's all see if there is any med that is safer to use. No dog should die because of this poison. There must be something else that works.

[GetRealFit]

I've been researching like crazy. It seems Sentinel may be my go to if need be.

My girl has such bad allergies they thought she might have scabies. To rule that out they put her on Interceptor at a very high dose. She took the 25 to 50 pound dose every 2 weeks for 6 weeks so she took 3 very strong doses very close together. My girl has reactions to most everything. She did fine!

Interceptor is just for heartworm and is used to cure scabies but not for fleas. It is no longer available but the same company has Sentinel available that has the same chemical as Inceptor for heartworms and another one for fleas. The flea protection is an inhibitor so it does not kill adult fleas but does not allow eggs to hatch. That makes the chemical less toxic.

I have never had fleas on any of my dogs. I use a flea comb daily and due to my girl's allergies have to steam clean weekly. She is highly allergic to mites of all kinds and insects. If adult fleas are a problem Capstar is suggested to get rid of the adult fleas if a flea comb and cleaning does not do it. Capstar would only be taken on a need basis.

Sentinel does not claim to deal with ticks. It also does not claim to deal with scabies but it does deal with scabies so I have to find out if they just don't list ticks like they don't list scabies.

The reviews I've read are mostly good. It gets a 4.5 on 1 800 meds. There are a few bad reviews but very few in comparison to the other products.

Life is a gamble. I do as much research as I can and then put out my cards. It does not mean I'll get this right but in my heart I know I am doing all I can for a perfect dog in an un-perfect world.

Hope this helps some others. Each dog is different so there are no across the board answers. Don't you wish there were...

[SweetboyJ]

My little guy J weighs 3 pounds.

What is the safest heart-worm Med for this size & if it comes in chewable can you break them?
Any response is appreciated.

[matese]

Welcome to YT.
This really is a question you should ask your vet.