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12-23-2008, 03:19 PM | #1 |
Misssing Baby Chloe Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California
Posts: 4,186
| Homecooking anxiety I have recently seen some bad press about missing link and solid gold supplements. Someone also told me that pet-tabs vitamins were not safe. I use all three. Then I ordered Dr. Pitcairn's book on the advice of my vet. Since then I saw that book is being called into question. I am starting to freak out. Am I home cooking healthy meals for my girls or poisoning them??? I don't know what to do!
__________________ We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made. -M. Acklam |
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12-23-2008, 03:34 PM | #2 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| It can be anxiety producing if you don't use a nutritionist. All of those supplements are meant to be an addition to already complete and balanced commercial food (and since the food is already balanced, most of those supplements are just a good way for companies to make $$$). They aren't concentrated enough for homecooking. Dr. Pitcairn is questionable with the confusing supplement thing. The only supplement made specifically for homecooking is Balance IT. The problem is, the regular Balance IT L contains menadione (not great). If you go to their site though, you can buy recipes for cheap and if you don't want to use the Balance IT, they will give you equivalents in humans vitamins and minerals. You might try that. I've never used the service, so don't know how good it is. Ellie is on Balance IT (it's a different kind for liver issues without menadione). Her nutritionist recommends it. Your dogs would have to be adults with no health issues and at perfect weights to buy recipes from the site or you could consult a nutritionist. All of the supplements you listed (except Dr. P) wouldn't be near enough calcium for a dog on a homecooked diet. I have Dr. P's book and don't like it much. The supplementing seems to be confusing to some because of his cal/phos ratio instructions I guess. Does that help?
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
12-23-2008, 04:05 PM | #3 |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Your post reminds me why I don't home cook. I'm not sure if it has to be as complicated as some have made it, unfortunately most of the information out there is from someone who's trying to sell us something. I just don't have any faith that the nutritionist I would choose to hire, is any more capable than the ones that work for the major dog food companies.
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals |
12-23-2008, 04:24 PM | #4 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :)
Posts: 5,219
| You know what confuses me... Before commercial dog food became available in the U.S. we fed our dogs table food...with no supplements...and dogs lived healthier, happier and longer lives. Now that we have commercial dog food that has all changed and home cooking recipes need to have supplements added to be healthy. What happened? Was the food better back then? Do we put so much crap in our food, or take so much out, now that there is not enough nutrition in it to sustain our pets...if that's the case...then what about us? |
12-23-2008, 04:37 PM | #5 | |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Quote:
None of it makes sense really. One thing that may have happened way back when is that dogs were given bones. They may have gotten obstructed (who knows) but that was a major source of calcium. No dog can eat enough dairy or whatever to satify calcium needs. I really don't know what happened though and why those dogs didn't get pancreatitis unless they did get sick and just weren't treated. Their diets also might have been part raw because I'm sure some of them caught mice and such. Some raw feeders don't supplement (which I don't go for but I'm not sure anyway has the whole answer).
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 | |
12-23-2008, 05:28 PM | #6 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
| Are you following a recipe prepared by a nutritionist? You can consult one or follow a recipe in a book that has been prepared by a nutritionist, but you can't just "wing it". You need a recipe that has all the necessary supplements based upon the ingredients in that particular recipe. A multivitamin is important, but that is in addition to the supplements the recipe calls for. Dogs have a much higher calcium requirement than humans. In fact, a little dog needs as much calcium as an adult woman. Most recipes call for additional calcium in either bone meal or calcium carbonate. You also need some sort of oil. Lady's recipe calls for canola oil. Dogs need iodine, either in salt or kelp. Homecooking short term is fine, but if you want to do it long term you have to follow a specific recipe, add the supplements and get blood work done periodically to make sure they are getting the proper nutrients. |
12-23-2008, 05:32 PM | #7 |
My hairy-legged girls Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: lompoc, ca.
Posts: 12,228
| First off no dog food is "complete and balanced", NONE! I don't use Dr. Pitcairns recipes, but I do use the Healthy Powder recipe. Been useing that for years. Home cooking should not be difficult at all. It's all a matter of keeping things simple. Meats and veggies are the main staple....fresh of course. Since the demand for different meats have increased dramatically in recent years it's caused the way they are raised to change and that includes confining spaces, shots to keep the diseases down and hormones to speed growth. When the meat is slaughtered it picks up all sorts of bacteria including salmonella which can cause typhoid fever, food poisoning & etc. So with all this "before" the meat gets to the grocery stores and butcher shops it's best NOT to eat meat, but if you do, COOK it first. If you want to feed your dog raw meat, then find some wild venison, bison & fowl. Feeding real food to your dogs and cats is the safest and healthiest by far.
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12-23-2008, 06:20 PM | #8 | |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Quote:
If they are, they are the same as commercial dog food, so if that isn't balanced, his wouldn't be either...
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 | |
12-23-2008, 06:27 PM | #9 | |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Quote:
Some nutritionists do sell supplements and I question their supplement system. Ellie nutritionist actually likes Science Diet and doesn't sell anything but she does charge to consult and charge for recipes from her site. She would just as soon people fed commercial food though because so much homecooking is done wrong. At the same time, I have a bit more confidence in the ingredients in Ellie's food now. I like that except for her vitamins, I can eat it. Although it is still full of garbage, I think human food is regulated a bit better than pet food and recalls may come sooner. When Menu had the issue awhile back, they evidently didn't recall right away. I know people put trust in "human grade" dog food but so far I don't even think that term has a definition. Food is either fit for human consumption or it isn't. Human grade can mean different things to different companies. I also know that I can feed Ellie kibble for about $75 a year and homecooking is probably $250-$400 for just okay ingredients, so I really have to question the quality of the ingredients that these companies are using. So, I think with dog food,, there are enough choices to get the guaranteed analysis that you want and even the ingredients for the most part but with homecooking, you have a bit more control over the quality of the ingredients.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 | |
12-23-2008, 09:09 PM | #10 |
Misssing Baby Chloe Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California
Posts: 4,186
| I sup with steamed bone meal made by solid gold. I tried to feed Zoeybear dog food once (Orijen) and she pooped blood. I have a dog that can't eat dog food? I feed lean ground beef, semolina pasta, green peas, with missing link, bone meal and a multi vite. My vet rated the diet as "good" but recommended Pitcarin's book. meanwhile...I had a burrito and 3 beers tonight. no supplements.
__________________ We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made. -M. Acklam |
12-24-2008, 06:18 AM | #11 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
Hmmm, I'd be concerned as to whether or not the cal-phos was balanced, and that's really important (and can be tough to figure out too). Are you following some formula for it? See this thread to see just how complicated . Very interesting. Here is a diet developed by a canine nutritionist who I've recently come across and am liking quite a bit, it provides some guidance (and for me, is much less complicated than Pitcairn) (you can cook the meat if you want, btw, you don't have to do raw): http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/UserFriendlyDiet.pdf Another option for you might be Urban Wolf: The Safe Alternative To Feed Your Dog! I too had a lot of anxiety when I was homecooking. I then worked w/ a nutritionist and that eased a ton of anxiety, but I already knew then that I eventually wanted to move to raw. She supported that transition as well. Hope some of this helps, I know how you feel!
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
12-24-2008, 07:00 AM | #12 | |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
| Quote:
I wouldn't homecook if I hadn't run out of commercial food Lady could eat because of all her health problems. If not done right, homecooking can be harmful. | |
12-24-2008, 07:12 AM | #13 | |
BANNED! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,376
| Quote:
Now, on the other hand, I have a friend that has been feeding her dog human food for about 4 or 5 years, the dog is now 6 and she just rushed it to the vet the other day for pancreatitis. The dogs of ours that lived long lives off of purina were NEVER fed our food, so my beliefs are that I feel from what I've seen over the years, that NOT giving human food at all, they tend to live longer lives. Our golden retriever was put down when she was 17 or 18 and she lived out her life on kibbles and chunks. The only reason she was put down was because she had cancer. | |
12-24-2008, 07:18 AM | #14 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
Vet care was less frequent, vaccinations were less ubiquitous (years ago) so vaccinosis was less prevalent (and the diseases that come w/ it). With less vet care, it's tough to tell exactly how "healthy" the dogs truly were. However, with access to a variety of foods and less of a chance of overvaccination - dogs probably had a better chance of getting a somewhat balanced diet over a number of days (which is actually normal if you read wolf-care nutritionists' comments). When kibble came on the scene, and vaccines skyrocketed - there was a general decline in health and you can read many papers/speeches about this by vets - actually Dr. Pitcairn has given great talks in this area. Since kibbles used to be of terrible quality (and some still are) - and on top of that, generations of dogs were overvaccinated, a dog's health now could be much more vulnerable than it used to be. That's why I tend to think, more than ever, it's important to avoid certain ingredients, to give a balanced diet, and supplement if needed - bc I think dogs have the potential to be more vulnerable to lots of issues now (just look at all the allergy threads here, which is a sign of immune system vulnerability). Also keep in mind that "back in the day", proper canine nutrition was not much understood or considered. Nowadays, we really *do* know optimal RDAs for canines, the delicate nature of the cal-phos ratio, and we also know the physical results of certain imbalances - plenty of papers there! We're seeing this in humans too right now. While infectious disease is often dealt with, we now see more allergies, more autism, more obesity, more diabetes, more auto-immune diseases - just more more more. And all of this has given rise to being more proactive about nutrition, exercise, preventive health, proper use of vaccines - about educating ourselves on how to support our systems in a better way. Same with our babies. Sorry for the long-winded-ness......
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
12-24-2008, 07:21 AM | #15 | |
Owned by Tumi & Gracie Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC
Posts: 2,321
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__________________ PROUD MOMMY OF MS.TUMI,MS.TSUBI AND MS.GRACIE! I LOVE MY BABY GIRLS!! PROUD MEMBER OF THE CRAZY CLUB! | |
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