Has anyone heard of a Liver Shunt?

[buddysalley]

The Vet I saw repeatedly said that he was "too old to be seeing the epileptic fit. And it is often while he is sleeping. Thankfully, he seems to be doing well on the Meds, Thank God the second vet proscribed something. He is running around like nothing was wrong. Is this normal?

He was fine one day. He was asleep on the couch, I put him on my bed and looked down moments later and he peed all over my bed. I put him in his play pen and changed my sheets and I looked down and he had aparently peed all overhimself and rolled around in it. THe next day, I called theVet and she said to make sure I was taking him out enough and so, I set a timer for every two hours even if he was asleep I woke him up to take him out. It was thent hat the seizures began. Isn't that wierd?

[Yorkieluv]

Has he had a urinalysis?

[buddysalley]

Urinalysis is the only test they did not run. His temp was normal, but his white blood count was high so they put him on antibiotics. His iron level was low so they put him on iron and a prescription food called AD, He LOVES IT! He has always been a picky eater it is so great to see him eat anything with such relish1

[Ladymom]

Losing control of bladder and bowels happen during a seizure.

This website has been my "bible" for dealing with Lady's epilepsy over the years:

Canine epilepsy and diseases that cause seizures in dogs

[buddysalley]

Thanks, I soon discovered the frightening effects of the seizure. Why do you suppose they keep saying he is "too old" I also have mean neighbors and although I never leave alone he bites and chews on plants ect. ... Of course now he is not allowed out of the house.

[littlelady]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Some symptoms of liver shunt are:
seizures
Shaking
Circling
Head Pressing (pressing head against a solid object)
GI upset
Odd smelling breath
Urination Problems
Sensitivity to drugs
Inappetance
Depression
Lethargy

Your pup would not have to be 5 pounds to have surgery.
The best place to get it done, in my opinion, is University of Tennessee and they deal with tiny Yorkies there often. Dr. Tobias was the first to do this surgery. Hopefully it's not needed though.

Do you consider circling as if they were walking sideways and appear to back up and walk sideways again.
Davey had bordetella 5/15, 4/28 distemper-hepatitis CAV-2 canine parvovirus parainfluenza, 5/17 and 6/06 DHLP-P-C, He has been hospitalized and his BAT ON 6-17 FASTING WAS 13.4, POST WAS 95.9
He also has been on albon, amoxicillin, Baytril 2 doses 9mg IV, Flagyl x 1 dose before these test, along with interceptor, and frontline on 6/03. I am hoping his test were elevated due to the meds, and vaccines. while he was in hospital his ALK-719, ALT-641, AMYL-278, NH3-38, HE HAD ELEVATED wbc 22.62, 20.85.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by buddysalley

Thanks, I soon discovered the frightening effects of the seizure. Why do you suppose they keep saying he is "too old" I also have mean neighbors and although I never leave alone he bites and chews on plants ect. ... Of course now he is not allowed out of the house.

He's not too old for true epilepsy, he's too young, so what your vet said makes no sense.

If he's eating plants, that could causing his seizures. Many plants are toxic and can kill a dog. Did you see that on the list of possible causes of seizures in dogs under one year old?


Plants Poisonous to Dogs

[buddysalley]

I am so confused by everything. See, when i first took him in I saw this new vet. She was confused so she called her another vet. They both insisted that my dog was "too old" to have begun to have seizures due to epilepsy. They gave me antibiotics and sent me home. He had more seizures as they were leaving so they made copies of his tests and sent me to the emergency vet. I went and he said there was something called juvenile epilepsy and he thought that was what it was, and that it can be outgrown. He gave me the valium. He has been fine since them.

We do not have any of the poisonous plants around my house. We have no insecticides or pesticides. I keep him away from all controllable catastrophes.

[Riley34]

my puppy is 11 weeks and started having seizures at 8 weeks. She was healthy the first couple of weeks I had her and then all of a sudden seizures. Your right, they are truely heartbreaking to watch. I am not sure what caused them I rushed her to the vet where they did a complete blood count, x-rays, and a bile acid test. The bile acid test for a liver shunt was horrible. They take a lot of blood straight from the jugular. It took my puppy about 1 1/2 weeks to recovery from all the trauma of testing. I didn't know until I found this website but we got her way too young. They did treat her with liquid vallium while in the hospital. She is now on anti-seizure meds and seems to be improving. Her seizures are the same as you described. Foaming at the mouth, neck bending back, urniating and deficating on herself. Then she lets out a big squeal and takes off running really fast. I read online somewhere that after they have a seizure they get a gas pain and there response is to run. It's been a couple of weeks now and the seizures aren't as frequent. By the way her blood count was normal, and the vet said she didn't have a liver shunt. I worry it may have been a reaction to the vaccines, or hypoglycemia. I do keep food out always now and make sure she gets Nutri-cal. I don't know if they checked her thyroid but I'm going to ask Monday because researching online that could be a strong possibility. I agree with one of the other responders. The seizures do seem like they are a symptom of something else. I hope your puppy continues getting better. Please keep me updated if they connect a cause to the seizures. Thanks

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

My Lady is an epileptic so I know more than I'd like to about the disease.

First, primary epilepsy in a 12 week old puppy is very rare. Seizures usually don't start until a dog is 1-5 years old. In a puppy under a year, seizures are usually a symptom of an underlying disease.

These are the most likely causes of seizures in puppies:

LESS THAN 1 YEAR OF AGE

Anomaly: hydrocephalus.

Inflammatory:
Infectious - Viral: canine distemper; parasitic; bacterial; fungal
Immune mediated

Metabolic:
Hepatic - portosystemic shunt; Autoimmune thyroiditis (early stage: TgAA
positive); Hypoglycemia; Electrolyte disorders

Toxic: Single or combination vaccines; Lead; Drug related; Other exposures

Trauma: Acute; Delayed

Degenerative: Storage disorders

POSSIBLE CAUSES OF SEIZURES BY AGE

Since your puppy is a Yorkie and Yorkies are thirty-six times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined, your vet was right to suspect that first.

Here is some information about liver shunts for you:

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Hepatic Vascular Disorders - WSAVA 2006 Congress

thanks ladymom great post.. gotta save this one hope i never need it..

[buddysalley]

Thanks! I feel that you are going through the same thing I am! Mine howls horribly after it. It is sooo sad! Keep me posted on yours. What area of the country do you live in?

[Ladymom]

Do make sure your vet finds the cause of his seizures and doesn't just rely on seizure medication which damage the liver over time.

Since hypoglycemia has been ruled out, I still suspect a shunt since they are so common in Yorkies and seizures are a classic symptom. When do you get the results of his bile acids test back?

[buddysalley]

The tests come back in a week. I promise that if the trio of vets I currently use cannot figure it out, I will get a second opinion. This is my baby, I want him to live a healthy long life!