Breeding Question...

[gusremy]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

okay, is the little box next to where it says limited blacked out? All the applications SAY limited but unless the box is blackened out, she is not limited. Look at your paper.

i don't have the papers with me at this moment. but all i remember is... there was a box that says "limited" and thats all i can remember at this moment. i'll get back to you on that tomorrow.

[Crisalide]

This is a perfect example of why I think the whole "limited AKC registered" thing is bogus and that many breeders are using the this "pet only, not up to standard to be bred" argument as an excuse for trying to minimize the competition from other potential breeders.

If these AKC breeders are TRULY breeding their dogs to better the breed, then I think they just need to have puppies which they don't want bred spayed/neutered THEMSELVES. Gets too expensive some may say? Hmm ... I thought they all claim they don't breed for profit. At the very LEAST, they should write up a spay/neuter contract which this woman apparently DID NOT.

It also makes me question why it's okay for the breeder to breed their OWN dogs, if the dogs they are breeding keep producing "sub-quality" offspring. I'm sorry but it just doesn't add up at all.

I definitely think your breeder was purposely being deceptive if she never mentioned that they would be on limited registration even after you told her you wanted to breed the puppy. If that's truly the case and your puppy grows up to meet the breed standard, that DOES NOT mean she can't be bred, and you can register her with another dog registry.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Crisalide

This is a perfect example of why I think the whole "limited AKC registered" thing is bogus and that many breeders are using the this "pet only, not up to standard to be bred" argument as an excuse for trying to minimize the competition from other potential breeders.

If these AKC breeders are TRULY breeding their dogs to better the breed, then I think they just need to have puppies which they don't want bred spayed/neutered THEMSELVES. Gets too expensive some may say? Hmm ... I thought they all claim they don't breed for profit. At the very LEAST, they should write up a spay/neuter contract which this woman apparently DID NOT.

It also makes me question why it's okay for the breeder to breed their OWN dogs, if the dogs they are breeding keep producing "sub-quality" offspring. I'm sorry but it just doesn't add up at all.

I definitely think your breeder was purposely being deceptive if she never mentioned that they would be on limited registration even after you told her you wanted to breed the puppy. If that's truly the case and your puppy grows up to meet the breed standard, that DOES NOT mean she can't be bred, and you can register her with another dog registry.

Many breeder do have their puppies spayed/neutered before they go to their new homes, but many breeders don't think it is safe to have puppies spayed/neutered so early. I personally am all for early spaying/neutering if the puppy is of size, but I understand people being hesitant about it since 6 months has always been the traditional thing to do. Many breeders won't even release any papers (even limited) until proof of spay/neuter or they'll have a clause in the contract that the buyer owns x amount more money or that they can reclaim the puppy (and any offspring) if proof of spay/neuter isn't provided. Reputable breeders do all they can to make sure the puppies they place as pets are spayed/neutered and not used for breeding. Not because they "are afraid of competition" but because they LOVE this breed and only want to see the best of the best shown and bred. Many breeders will produce puppies that they place in show/breeding homes and are proud to see them in the ring succeeding...it's not about "competition". It's about safety and well-being of the individual dog and love for the breed.

Also, it's not that "so many subquality pups" are being produced by great breeders. You can take two top show dogs and breed them together - you may get no show quality pups in the litter, only one or two show quality pups, or a whole litter of show quality pups. Genetics are complicated...breeders choose two dogs they think will best compliment each other...but with genetics, you are always taking a chance. And the dogs placed as pets, aren't necessarily substandard dogs...they are normally good representations of the breed but may have certain faults in which the breeder believes they should not reproduce...ears too big, bite off, snout too long or short, hair color off, coat texture off, topline off, etc. Of course there is no such thing as a perfect dog, but that's what a reputable breeder strives to produce. They only keep puppies for breeding that they feel are "close to perfect"...the rest they place as pets.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by gusremy

i don't have the papers with me at this moment. but all i remember is... there was a box that says "limited" and thats all i can remember at this moment. i'll get back to you on that tomorrow.

the little box won't say limited. it will be blackened in by the breeder. The word "LIMITED" are printed out to the side. It is that way on all application papers. You are under limited ONLY if the box is black. If it has numbers in it, you have full registration. Hurry up and look at those papers. this is what i think is happening.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by gusremy

Remy is 2 pounsd 8 ounces (according to the banfield scale, as of last wednesday) and she is 17 weeks now. (FYI: she has only gained 1 ounce since the 5 weeks ive had her). As an adult, will she be big enough to breed? (if not, i will not even think about it and get her fixed)

Unless she has a major growth spurt (which is possible) I really doubt she'll be big enough to breed. No dog under 4lbs should be bred and most prefer at least 5lbs.

[gusremy]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

the little box won't say limited. it will be blackened in by the breeder. The word "LIMITED" are printed out to the side. It is that way on all application papers. You are under limited ONLY if the box is black. If it has numbers in it, you have full registration. Hurry up and look at those papers. this is what i think is happening.

sorry i cant look right now, im at work...

[chachi]

Yep since you said your breeder knew you wanted to breed her once i bet its not limited either. Unless she was dishonest with you

[daiszzy21]

I would have to say I kind of agree with you somewhat
and then what about the other post if I pay a couple hundred dollars more then I can have breeding rights to my dog. What am I buying?
I am just wondering how that works for breeders?

Originally Posted by Crisalide

This is a perfect example of why I think the whole "limited AKC registered" thing is bogus and that many breeders are using the this "pet only, not up to standard to be bred" argument as an excuse for trying to minimize the competition from other potential breeders.

If these AKC breeders are TRULY breeding their dogs to better the breed, then I think they just need to have puppies which they don't want bred spayed/neutered THEMSELVES. Gets too expensive some may say? Hmm ... I thought they all claim they don't breed for profit. At the very LEAST, they should write up a spay/neuter contract which this woman apparently DID NOT.

It also makes me question why it's okay for the breeder to breed their OWN dogs, if the dogs they are breeding keep producing "sub-quality" offspring. I'm sorry but it just doesn't add up at all.

I definitely think your breeder was purposely being deceptive if she never mentioned that they would be on limited registration even after you told her you wanted to breed the puppy. If that's truly the case and your puppy grows up to meet the breed standard, that DOES NOT mean she can't be bred, and you can register her with another dog registry.

[daiszzy21]

op I hope it all works out for you!!
I just had that question also!

[hha]

Originally Posted by daiszzy21

I would have to say I kind of agree with you somewhat
and then what about the other post if I pay a couple hundred dollars more then I can have breeding rights to my dog. What am I buying?
I am just wondering how that works for breeders?

You know, that does make a lot of sense, what you're saying..you go to a reputable breeder, they sell you this puppy for $1000 as a pet, or $1500 with full registration..
Now, we need you breeders to explain this, that is kind of confusing..

[Sugar's Mom]

i only limit the ones I think shouldn't be bred for whatever reason or are too small. The ones that are all regular size are all the same price. i think I have only limited about three or four of mine. i have dropped their price way down. My thinking is that if they can't be bred or shown, they shouldn't cost as much . does that make any sense? I'm not sure it does even to me One thing I do know tho is that if I place a limited on any of mine, no amount of money offered to me will get you full.

[hha]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

i only limit the ones I think shouldn't be bred for whatever reason or are too small. The ones that are all regular size are all the same price. i think I have only limited about three or four of mine. i have dropped their price way down. My thinking is that if they can't be bred or shown, they shouldn't cost as much . does that make any sense? I'm not sure it does even to me One thing I do know tho is that if I place a limited on any of mine, no amount of money offered to me will get you full.

Thank you for your answer, but, not all breeders do that..I have seen a lot of them where it's this much money without full registration, and this much more with full registration.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by hha

Thank you for your answer, but, not all breeders do that..I have seen a lot of them where it's this much money without full registration, and this much more with full registration.

yes, I know most of them do that. i don't really understand it either.

[lulababy]

i am wondering about this price differential as well. if the puppy is not of proper quality and is only good for a pet, no amount of money should change that fact

as someone else said, it seems like they are somehow trying to stop competition

[MyFairLacy]

Most breeders charge more for their show/breeding pups and less for their pet pups. I don't know of any reputable breeder that give full registration with a pet puppy just because someone is willing to pay more for it.

In fact, I stay away from any breeder that has has a pup advertised on their site and says one price for limited registration and a higher price if you want full. That is NOT a reputable breeder