Homecooking - advice on nutrition

[Franceen]

Hi

I have recently acquired a rescue Yorkie. She is a darling and we all just adore her. She is blossoming since she has been with us and it is so good to see her so happy. At first she was nervous and very insecure. She would scream if one of us left the house, as she has abandonment issues, poor little mite. Now she has learnt that we always come back and she has stopped panicking when someone goes out.

The vet told me to increase her food as she was too thin. I then started homecooking for her and have given her what we eat. She absolutely loves the food and is eating very well. Before, she was vomiting a lot and seemed to dislike the dog foods I tried her on. Since I have been giving her meat/poultry/fish and veg with either sweet potato or rice, she has stopped vomiting and put on weight. She has gone from 3.4kg to 4.2kg and looks a lot healthier. She no longer begs for snacks and is happy to wait till mealtimes. I feed her 3 to 4 times a day, giving her small portions. She eats in total about 1 and a half cups of food a day. Is this okay? I try to vary the vegetables as much as possible. I give her a yellow and a green veg each day plus the rice or sweet potato. For protein I give her chicken, lamb or fish. I am thinking of trying beef next. She doesn't like turkey. Am I giving her a good diet?

I have just asked for advice on how to care for a cold, on a separate thread, as I think she is starting one.

Hope someone can advise me regarding her diet.

Luv

Franceen

[kalina82]

there are a lot of people who home cook for their babies so you should get some good advise. I feed RAW so i can't help you too much, however i have noticed that home cookers need to add supplements to the food to make sure they are getting all the nutrients that they need.

Also, i think 1 1/2 cups of food a day is too much unless you have a bigger yorkie. 4.2kgs is 9.4lbs right? So maybe its ok. all i know is that my 4lb yorkie at 1/2 of kibble a day when i had her on that. I'm sure i'll be corrected when other home cookers discover your thread.

[Franceen]

Hi kalina82 - I thought she was eating a lot. She asks for food and it is so hard not to give it to her! She is a larger Yorkie, but was underfed. Now her ribs are just covered nicely, but she is not fat at all. I would like her to stay this weight and not put on any more weight. Perhaps I should decrease the portions each day and see if her weight remains stable. She seems to be hungrier than she was when I first got her, although she was probably used to too little food, poor darling. She was also vomiting a lot. She doesn't vomit on the home cooked food and her stools are normal. I was thinking of adding a supplement but the vet told me that it is easy to over-supplement a Yorkie and do them harm. But if other members are supplementing their home cooking and their dogs are fine, then I will do the same.

Thanks for your reply

Luv

Franceen

[kalina82]

I'd do 1 cup of food and see how she does. My yorkie is ALWAYS begging for food cause well.... she's a dog LOL. Yorkiedaze homecooks for her yorkies and she knows her stuff. Perhaps you can PM her and ask her about the supplements since no one else has replied here yet.

[marcerella02]

Hey! Great job home cooking! When i feed Layla her breakfast and dinner i try and give her 70% meat, 20% veggie and 10% grains in each meal. I have read that dogs don't need much in the way of grains and they are really just fillers so try and give her more meat than anything. Also you should probably be suppliementing with a multi vitamin for her... I make my own suppliement and if you want the receipe PM me

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by marcerella02

Hey! Great job home cooking! When i feed Layla her breakfast and dinner i try and give her 70% meat, 20% veggie and 10% grains in each meal. I have read that dogs don't need much in the way of grains and they are really just fillers so try and give her more meat than anything. Also you should probably be suppliementing with a multi vitamin for her... I make my own suppliement and if you want the receipe PM me

ah ha, there you go! another home cooker with good advice

[Ellie May]

That amount of food may not be too much. My Yorkie gets about 3/4 cup a day of homecooked and she is 5 1/2 pounds. A lot of homecooked weight is water weight. I would figure out your dog's optimal daily caloric intake (online) and measure with a food scale.

Also, when homecooking supplementing is not an option. You can harm your dog if you homecook long term without supplementing (especially calcium) but others also. I would not be happy with your vet for telling you that...

[Ladymom]

You need to get specific recipes from your vet or a canine nutritionist to make sure your dog is getting the proper nutrition. It will have all the supplements you have to add to that particular recipe.

As Ellie May said, dogs need extra calcium. Dogs need much more calcium than humans. An adult woman needs 1000 mg per day, but a little dog like a Yorkie needs 500 mg of calcium per day!

[Franceen]

Thank you SO much for all this information, everyone. It is very much appreciated.

Marcerello02, I read that Yorkies should have less protein than other breeds and this is why I was giving her 20% protein, which was the amount recommended. Now, I have been trying to remember where I read that - must have been a Yorkie site somewhere on the net. I must try and find it.

I did not know that you could get recipes from the vet and I had no idea that there were canine nutritionists, Ladymom! There seems to be a lot I don't know. I did not know about the calcium! I am just so grateful to you guys for helping me. I will definitely supplement now. I am not too happy with the vet I saw either, Ellie May, and Tootsie is terrified of her I am going to look for a good vet - one that both we and Tootsie are happy with. As I said in a recent post, the animals in the waiting room at this vet were all very upset. I know that no animal likes going to a vet, but when we had our bird, we went to a veterinary practice in another town (as they were the only ones with an avian vet) and the animals in the waiting room there were all calm, every time we were there. I found it very upsetting to see how frightened the animals were at this last vet. It was recommended by the lady from the Rescue Centre, which is why we went there.

Where, online, do I work out my dogs optimum calorie intake, Ellie May?. Is there a site that helps you work it out?

Thanks, once again, for all your help and advice.

Luv

Franceen

[Ladymom]

There are also books on home cooking. Dr. Pitcairn's book is very popular.

Amazon.com: Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to...

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Marcerello02, I read that Yorkies should have less protein than other breeds and this is why I was giving her 20% protein, which was the amount recommended.

I did not know that you could get recipes from the vet and I had no idea that there were canine nutritionists, Ladymom!

Total myth. High protein is what all canines are meant to have - they are carnivores. The only cases where high protein is not good is if the dog has kidney/liver/health issues. Here is a GREAT paper on canine nutrition (from a kibble company, but fantastic!): http://www.championpetfoods.com/orij...hite_paper.pdf

Also, often times, as Ellie May said, dogs eat far more volume on homecooked food bc it is not processed down to kibble. ESPECIALLY if eating fish, bc it is so low fat. My Marcel (3 lbs) was eating about 1-1.5 cups per day when he was on his fish diet (now eats raw) - and this diet was developed by a top-notch nutritionist. If ever you need a nutritionist, I cannot recommend highly enough Susan Blake Davis: http://www.askariel.com/

You're giving her great food - nice variety (no grains, which is good). Just remember to supplement w/ calcium (do you know how to make calcium from eggshells?). Many homecookers supplement w/ digestive enzymes, probiotics, and EFAs. All of those are good!

[Ellie May]

http://www.phouka.com/dogs/dog_amount.html#cal_req
Here is one. I have no idea how accurate it is and caloric requirements change after the pet has been altered. These charts are only a rough estimate and some people prefer to skip them entirely and feed the amount that their dog does well with. Ellie has a nutritionist that did it for me.

I know it seems like you are getting conflicting opinions about how much protein to give. That is because you are. There are two sides to it. Half of the homecookers say that dogs are carnivores and only really have to have meat and maybe a few veggies. They don't need grain (or some just give a little bit). The other side to that is that protein is processed through the liver and kidneys, so too much is not good. They believe veggies are very good for dogs and usually grains are given because if you aren't giving a whole bunch of meat, then there would be way too many veggies in the diet without giving grains. I hope I am making sense. Anyway, I lean toward the second side but believe there may be some truth to the first. Ellie gets 24% protein on a dry matter basis. I would like it to be a bit higher but she has some medical issues to consider...

Ellie's recipe is:
1 ounce meat (I use boiled white meat chicken with no skin or fat)
88 grams carb (usually brown rice)
60 grams veggies (mixed veggies)
1 tsp. canola oil
Supplements

[Franceen]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Total myth. High protein is what all canines are meant to have - they are carnivores. The only cases where high protein is not good is if the dog has kidney/liver/health issues. Here is a GREAT paper on canine nutrition (from a kibble company, but fantastic!): http://www.championpetfoods.com/orij...hite_paper.pdf

Also, often times, as Ellie May said, dogs eat far more volume on homecooked food bc it is not processed down to kibble. ESPECIALLY if eating fish, bc it is so low fat. My Marcel (3 lbs) was eating about 1-1.5 cups per day when he was on his fish diet (now eats raw) - and this diet was developed by a top-notch nutritionist. If ever you need a nutritionist, I cannot recommend highly enough Susan Blake Davis: http://www.askariel.com/

You're giving her great food - nice variety (no grains, which is good). Just remember to supplement w/ calcium (do you know how to make calcium from eggshells?). Many homecookers supplement w/ digestive enzymes, probiotics, and EFAs. All of those are good!

Thanks so much for the links and for the information on protein and quantities of food. I will start supplementing. Not sure about the correct way to make calcium from eggshells so would be grateful for that information. Also, how much a day of the eggshell calcium?

Thanks again.

Love

Franceen

[Franceen]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

http://www.phouka.com/dogs/dog_amount.html#cal_req
Here is one. I have no idea how accurate it is and caloric requirements change after the pet has been altered. These charts are only a rough estimate and some people prefer to skip them entirely and feed the amount that their dog does well with. Ellie has a nutritionist that did it for me.

I know it seems like you are getting conflicting opinions about how much protein to give. That is because you are. There are two sides to it. Half of the homecookers say that dogs are carnivores and only really have to have meat and maybe a few veggies. They don't need grain (or some just give a little bit). The other side to that is that protein is processed through the liver and kidneys, so too much is not good. They believe veggies are very good for dogs and usually grains are given because if you aren't giving a whole bunch of meat, then there would be way too many veggies in the diet without giving grains. I hope I am making sense. Anyway, I lean toward the second side but believe there may be some truth to the first. Ellie gets 24% protein on a dry matter basis. I would like it to be a bit higher but she has some medical issues to consider...

Ellie's recipe is:
1 ounce meat (I use boiled white meat chicken with no skin or fat)
88 grams carb (usually brown rice)
60 grams veggies (mixed veggies)
1 tsp. canola oil
Supplements

Thanks for your reply and for the recipe. Thanks, too, for explaining why there is this conflict of advice on levels of protein to feed. I suppose it was felt that Yorkies are possibly prone to kidney and liver problems and so it would be safe to err on the side of caution with protein. I think I will increase the protein a bit, as she is healthy.

Luv

Franceen

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Not sure about the correct way to make calcium from eggshells so would be grateful for that information. Also, how much a day of the eggshell calcium?

Super easy. I use the egg shells from about a dozen eggs - spread over baking sheet, bake for 10 mins at 350 degrees. Grind to a powder in a coffee grinder - and done! A good measure would be just less than an 1/8th of a teaspoon.

You can also just buy bone meal (Solid Gold, or Kal) - but some folks don't like to use it - so I thought I'd mention the egg shells too.