my puppy wont eat =[ please help

[feistypup6]

Curious if Tyke has had Bile Acid Testing?

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by varietypack

I bought Tyke when he was 5.5 MONTHS, weighed 2.3 lbs and had the exact same problem. It was an 8 hour drive from his home, during which time I was becoming increasing worried because he refused to eat. - (the breeder prepared food for him for the trip) Then, after a few hours to settle in at this end, he STILL didn't eat.
I tried EVERYthing, including the diet the breeder had raised him on....which he hasn't touched since. In the end, I had to forcefeed him a.d.(a calorie dense soft food from the vets) over the weekend...which he resisted hugely. I was SO frustrated, he was so tiny I was afraid of breaking him, and forcefeeding him was unpleasant for both of us. There was food in his beard, on his front legs, on ME, everywhere but down his mouth.
He was checked at the vets on Monday - who found nothing wrong and he's been HORRIBLE to feed ever since.
I homecook for him (which sometimes he eats... and sometimes he doesn't) He USUALLY eats raw well.. but will sometimes go off it for no reason.
In a bigger dog, I'd play "hardball" and let them go hungry until they were ready to eat, but Tyke gets hypoglycemic so that isn't an option.
His last vet visit he was up to 2.15 lbs. and I was elated, but since his vaccines (a week ago) he's been off his food AGAIN. I'm sure those extra ozs. have melted away and he's probably back to his normal, boney, 2.5 lbs.
I've NEVER had a dog like this, I think he truly would starve himself to death... or at least into a hypoglycemic coma. Has anyone else had experience with this?
Good thing he's so darn cute!!

I too would worry a lot with one that age and that small and anorexia issues. Personally, as a breeder, I do not let them go to a pet home when they are that tiny I don't care how old they might be by then and am particularly concerned if still so small at that age.
I am not saying it may be so in your little ones case, but the small ones like this have a far greater chance that something is wrong, that is why it is tiny.
I prefer to keep them BA test after at minimum 6 mos of age, full blood panel as well, then wait and see. If it is determined they can handle the anasthesia then I procede with spay/neuter and watch and wait again.
There can be other issues than liver shunt, such as immature or embryonic kidneys, growth hormone or glandular problems that something isn't working quite right, heart issues. Some of these things cannot be tested for, some can be.
It is possible none of the above are true for your little guy but these are issues one should be aware of before purchasing and I would recommend not buying one at that age, that small.
Yes they can do fine at the breeders home but given a new home and situation, the stress of change can bring issues,if health problems are there, over the threshold and symptoms can appear that would have eventually anyway if still in the breeders home.
During a pregnancy, the mothers system supports the fetuses. Once they are born, the puppies systems has to support themselves. If there are no health issues they are fine. Some health issues will not be seen in the first months of life sometimes even up to a year old. But as the puppies system is supporting itself and compensating over time for a health issue eventually the puppies system cannot do it anymore and you will see problems that can get worse instead of better.
I don't mean to frighten you and as I said, it may not be the case for your puppy. He may very well be fine. All you can do now is watch and keep close tabs on him. I would BA test once he is over 6 mos unless you are seeing other clinical signs of LS then test now. At the same time you can run a geriatric blood panel that can check for kidney/liver function and other issues reflected in a full blood panel if there are other problems.

[varietypack]

Hi Lorranine,
I do thank you for your very informative post (I think)
You're right, I had NO idea the tiny ones had so many 'issues" and would never again get one THIS tiny.... but having said that, I wouldn't trade him for the world either.
I confess I am a bit worried after reading your post.... but when he rolled off my lap and broke his leg last December, he was treated at the Ontario Veterinary Hospital in Guelph where they have ALL the "bells and whistles". He received extensive bloodwork - though perhaps not specifics related to various conditions. I guess the point I'm making is that there was nothing that set off any red flags. They redid the bloodwork every month because they insisted on anesthetising him before they took fresh rads. to assess how his leg was healing. I inquired about the anesthetic "overload" but they reassured me it was o.k. - and basically said that without it, they wouldn't do the rads as he's just sooooooo bouncy.
He was at O.V.C. again in July for dental surgery... retained baby teeth with the adult one erupting alongside and pointing in toward his palate. Again, EXTENSIVE bloodwork. ALso, aside from the lack of appetite, he certainly seems healthy. Alert, happy, and so active he makes the Ever Ready Bunny look lethargic.
If you have suggestions as to more specific issues I should/could be looking into, or specific tests, I'd be really grateful if you could let me know.

[varietypack]

Originally Posted by feistypup6

Curious if Tyke has had Bile Acid Testing?

Tell me more! I'm not familiar with this condition.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by varietypack

Hi Lorranine,
I do thank you for your very informative post (I think)
You're right, I had NO idea the tiny ones had so many 'issues" and would never again get one THIS tiny.... but having said that, I wouldn't trade him for the world either.
I confess I am a bit worried after reading your post.... but when he rolled off my lap and broke his leg last December, he was treated at the Ontario Veterinary Hospital in Guelph where they have ALL the "bells and whistles". He received extensive bloodwork - though perhaps not specifics related to various conditions. I guess the point I'm making is that there was nothing that set off any red flags. They redid the bloodwork every month because they insisted on anesthetising him before they took fresh rads. to assess how his leg was healing. I inquired about the anesthetic "overload" but they reassured me it was o.k. - and basically said that without it, they wouldn't do the rads as he's just sooooooo bouncy.
He was at O.V.C. again in July for dental surgery... retained baby teeth with the adult one erupting alongside and pointing in toward his palate. Again, EXTENSIVE bloodwork. ALso, aside from the lack of appetite, he certainly seems healthy. Alert, happy, and so active he makes the Ever Ready Bunny look lethargic.
If you have suggestions as to more specific issues I should/could be looking into, or specific tests, I'd be really grateful if you could let me know.

If he has handled anesthesia really well for the number of times he has had to be put under, then that lessens my worry a lot. LS puppies don't do well under anesthesia, the liver can't process the gas and drugs involved very well.
So, now with his small size, erupting teeth you will still have to be concerned with hypoglycemia and make sure he is eating.
I tend to soak some dry food to feed especially puppies their gums can be sore and tender from erupting teeth. Also leave dry food down all the time for him.
Gotta run, I will post again if I think of anything else.

[feistypup6]

Bile acid testing is a start in testing for liver shunt. Lorraine has covered that subject pretty well, so I don't have much to add. I am curious why Lorraines advises waiting until 6 months to test however???

[Tissy]

Originally Posted by varietypack

I bought Tyke when he was 5.5 MONTHS, weighed 2.3 lbs and had the exact same problem. It was an 8 hour drive from his home, during which time I was becoming increasing worried because he refused to eat. - (the breeder prepared food for him for the trip) Then, after a few hours to settle in at this end, he STILL didn't eat.
I tried EVERYthing, including the diet the breeder had raised him on....which he hasn't touched since. In the end, I had to forcefeed him a.d.(a calorie dense soft food from the vets) over the weekend...which he resisted hugely. I was SO frustrated, he was so tiny I was afraid of breaking him, and forcefeeding him was unpleasant for both of us. There was food in his beard, on his front legs, on ME, everywhere but down his mouth.
He was checked at the vets on Monday - who found nothing wrong and he's been HORRIBLE to feed ever since.
I homecook for him (which sometimes he eats... and sometimes he doesn't) He USUALLY eats raw well.. but will sometimes go off it for no reason.
In a bigger dog, I'd play "hardball" and let them go hungry until they were ready to eat, but Tyke gets hypoglycemic so that isn't an option.
His last vet visit he was up to 2.15 lbs. and I was elated, but since his vaccines (a week ago) he's been off his food AGAIN. I'm sure those extra ozs. have melted away and he's probably back to his normal, boney, 2.5 lbs.
I've NEVER had a dog like this, I think he truly would starve himself to death... or at least into a hypoglycemic coma. Has anyone else had experience with this?
Good thing he's so darn cute!!

I can relate....when I brought my baby girl home at 5 months of age and 1.5 lbs. I was ignorant of hypoglycemia (still upset that the breeder did not feel the need to inform me of the dangers with such a tiny) and I did have to make an emergency trip to the vet the next morning as she was in a coma!
Thank goodness we made it in time and since then I have become somewhat of an expert at hypoglycemia.

Anyway, to get to the point of my post, Delilah is stubborn and will not eat what she does not like....she too would starve herself to death. But since switching over to raw she is eating me outta house and home! She is thriving beautifully. Good luck finding something that works for your baby.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by feistypup6

Bile acid testing is a start in testing for liver shunt. Lorraine has covered that subject pretty well, so I don't have much to add. I am curious why Lorraines advises waiting until 6 months to test however???

Two different Vets have told me to wait until after six months unless they are clinical before that ie showing several symptoms of LS.
After six months of age they can handle the fast better but even then if particularly small you have to be careful. Also the older it is if there is even a minor shunt the more likely you will discover it is a shunt dog. Testing too young can show not a very high BA while in reality there could be a problem but not enough to show up quite yet. That's why a one year genetic guarantee for LS is a little misleading, IMHO.
Also be aware medications can throw off the BA test and test high for a dog that isn't LS or anything else.

[varietypack]

Wow!! Thanks to all of you for your advice, opinions and advice.
Lorraine, your decreased concerns gave me a huge sigh of relief.
Tyke's breeder warned me several times about the hypoglycemic issus...which is why I force fed him over that first week end.
I'm really sorry the other "new mom" had to learn that the hard way.. you must have been terrified.
Now when Tyke goes longer than I'm comfortable with, I'll syringe feed him (which is always a fight) some a.d.... which OFTEN seems to stimulate his appetite enough that he'll take SOMEthing at least. After living with him and worrying about him for over a year now, I've become good at recognizing the pre-hypoglycemic signs. He becomes quiet, and disinterested. If it progressed, he'd then become lethargic... but I never let it go that far.
He won't touch dry food, even if I smash it up with a hammer...in fact, untill a couple of months ago, he wouldn't eat kibble of any description, soaked, dry, ground,... even soaked and mixed into his homecooked. He's SO picky, that if I didn't remove the kibble from the homecooked, he wouldn't eat at ALL. I MIGHT get away with grinding it to a powder in the food processor and sprinkling a little on his homecooked, but even that wasn't always accepted.
I've FINALLY persuaded him to eat it soaked, but only if it's less than 50% of the meal and mixed with either homecooked ...or tinned (which I try to avoid using) Hopefully, in time, I can increase the kibble ratio, it seems to be a work in progress.
His dental health is a concern for me because he won't eat.. or chew ANYthing hard. I've tried rawhide, raw beef bones, greenies, bonz, hooves, dried salmon rolls, pigs ears, regular dog biscuits.. you name it. The toys he enjoys playing with are always plush ones.
Brushing his teeth is absolutely out of the question... even his dental surgeon laughed at Tyke's "bounce" levels.
He's actually VERY difficult to work with because he just NEVER stands still. None of my friends or family will even pick him up because he bounces, or "happy wriggles" with such enthusiasm everyone is afraid he'll slip.
He's SO happy and enthusiastic...and active that if he was human I'd be suspicious he was taking something.... or at least overloading on caffeine. I wish I had even the tiniest portion of his energy levels