Ok I think this thread went way off topic, and I may get my own beating for my post, but here goes.

I cannot give an opinion on Brokers as I have never used one, met one, or even read about them other than the posts here on YT so I do not as of yet have an opinion on them.

As for puppymills, I am deadset against them, but I also have issues with how some rescue groups are going about rescuing the dogs. I have seen documentary's on a certain rescue group that actually goes TO THE MILL and buys their rescued dogs FROM THE MILLER. This bothers me. Why? Well please, tell me exactly what did this achieve? Yes, there is now one less puppy in a mill, but there are still hundreds of others IN the mill. I wan to know how any LEGIT rescue group could go to the millers and purchase the dogs. If it is ok for a rescue group to go to these Auctions and purchase the dogs, vet them, spay them, and home them, then why shouldn't individuals do the same? If an individual DID purchase from the millers directly then that invdividual would be bashed for supporting the millers, but yet, aren't the rescue groups doing the same by purchasing their rescues from the millers auctions????

I personally think mills should be illegal, auction live animals (whether it be dogs, cats, birds, etc) should be illegal, and selling pups for exorbiant prices should be illegal (Paying $3,000 - $5,000 or more doesn't mean you are getting a better quality pup).

I also believe that all dogs being used in these mills deserve to have a real home, away from the torture of being in a cage and being bred over and over again.

I am NOT against responsible breeding, and there are alot of breeders on here and even some (like me) who are new to breeding and are still learning. We are all entitled to our opinions and no one should turn ANY thread into a personal attack just because we disagree.

[QUOTE=Willow]Ok I think this thread went way off topic, and I may get my own beating for my post, but here goes.



As for puppymills, I am deadset against them, but I also have issues with how some rescue groups are going about rescuing the dogs. I have seen documentary's on a certain rescue group that actually goes TO THE MILL and buys their rescued dogs FROM THE MILLER. This bothers me. Why? Well please, tell me exactly what did this achieve? Yes, there is now one less puppy in a mill, but there are still hundreds of others IN the mill. I wan to know how any LEGIT rescue group could go to the millers and purchase the dogs. If it is ok for a rescue group to go to these Auctions and purchase the dogs, vet them, spay them, and home them, then why shouldn't individuals do the same? If an individual DID purchase from the millers directly then that invdividual would be bashed for supporting the millers, but yet, aren't the rescue groups doing the same by purchasing their rescues from the millers auctions????
/QUOTE]

This is a touchy subject for those in rescue. They are buying the auction dogs simply to get them out of the system. Yeah your lining the pockets of the millers but... chances are those dogs will be sold and sold again to different mills until they die. So yet people are so set against buying pet shop puppies but at the same time they are saving the adults and some pups from the situation they are in. They say some of the dogs that arent sold are killed. So you just try and save them

[QUOTE=Willow]Ok I think this thread went way off topic, and I may get my own beating for my post, but here goes.



As for puppymills, I am deadset against them, but I also have issues with how some rescue groups are going about rescuing the dogs. I have seen documentary's on a certain rescue group that actually goes TO THE MILL and buys their rescued dogs FROM THE MILLER. This bothers me. Why? Well please, tell me exactly what did this achieve? Yes, there is now one less puppy in a mill, but there are still hundreds of others IN the mill. I wan to know how any LEGIT rescue group could go to the millers and purchase the dogs. If it is ok for a rescue group to go to these Auctions and purchase the dogs, vet them, spay them, and home them, then why shouldn't individuals do the same? If an individual DID purchase from the millers directly then that invdividual would be bashed for supporting the millers, but yet, aren't the rescue groups doing the same by purchasing their rescues from the millers auctions????
/QUOTE]

This is a touchy subject for those in rescue. They are buying the auction dogs simply to get them out of the system. Yeah your lining the pockets of the millers but... chances are those dogs will be sold and sold again to different mills until they die. So yet people are so set against buying pet shop puppies but at the same time they are saving the adults and some pups from the situation they are in. They say some of the dogs that arent sold are killed. So you just try and save them

[QUOTE=Chrissy0277]I agree...someone has to step up to the plate and help in some way, because obviously the government had failed and continues to fail. IMO there is a huge difference between resuces 'buying' and the 'average joe' buying from broker/petshop. That's just my opinion...

Biography:
My name is Jaime, i currently reside in NJ. I work along the side with Top Knotch Pups.com and i got both my puppies from them. Wonderful dogs

Miss Deadlocks, this is your own biography. Hardly just a happy customer, you in fact work with Top Knotch pups and I cannot imagine anything but a glowing review from you.

You are so involved with NJ Stop Puppymill "commities"? Then you of all people know why it is important to not buy from brokers. Nobody has ever questioned whether or not TKP take care of the puppies in their possession, the question is how are the puppies parents cared for.

Actually Miss know it all
 

Ok so you want the truth here it is:

So this is what i meant in my bio actually..
I dont own nor WORK for her persay..
I have wanted a yorkie my whole life, but i dont come from a family with alot of money, in fact we are paycheck to paycheck and always have been.
I unfortunatly cannot go out and drop even a hundred dollars on a dog like some people can, (and good for them) but i dont have that luxury.
I am 23 years old, with my two children and i struggle each day to get thru school in the vet field and I for a long time now couldnt work because I was diagnosed with Hypotension when i was pregnant with my daughter, causing me to pass out everytime i was on my feet for more than 15-20 minutes or so, then i had my daughter in april. And i had to hold off on going back to work until she was old enough for daycare. During which time i spoke with Susan (I emailed her to compliment on her puppies, i loved to look at them and wished i could have one someday) She asked me what i do for a living, and i told her that right now im just a mom while my fiance works hard and gets thru pharmacy school as well and i apologized because i didnt want to lead her on into thinking i was a potential customer (dont waste your breath ma'am) lol.
So anyways i explained that i do some graphic design but i havent had work in a while and she said to me
"Ok how about this, you seem so sweet and i can tell you have a love for puppies, why dont you barter with me, help me make my website and we will keep it simple, and you have your pick of a puppy from me"

She was so excited to make my dreams come true, shekept saying "JAIME FINALLY GOT HER YORKIE, IM SO GLAD" that was my charlie.
Because of this, i had alot of respect for her considering most people in her field of business amoungst almost every breeder i have met in my life, would just say "thats too bad" or "oh well, take care then, maybe in the future when you have the money" ...because they see money signs.
Susan went out of her way and lost alot of money on me, but she was happy to because she knew i would appriciate my yorkie (charlie) EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE. We kept in touch often, the website was done and over with.
I was at her house for the 2006 top knotch reunion party that she holds every year (a chance for the pups and owners to reunite and party hearty)
and I commented on a little puppy who looked much diffrent than the rest,She was beautiful and had such a cute face, she really stood out It was a pup namd Jaclyn whom her family was debating on keeping as a family pet because of her amazing personality, but Susan wasnt so sure they needed another pet considering she has 2 yorkies already and spends so much time with the puppies she has..She knew i really loved that dog from the beginning and that night before going home, she presented to me and option to take jaclyn (renamed by me- lola) home with me. Immediatly I broke into "OH MY GOD" mode.
She asked if in exchange i would go to her house periodically and help with the puppies which i LOVED to do and did anyway. So for a 3 weeks period i devoted my time to her.. 2 days a week for 3 weeks or so just to give her a hand with grooming the pups (4 hands are quicker than 2) or just to take them out in their big backyard and run around with them and socialize, or to help sweep up and keep everything spic and span...During which time I signed up for this FORUM, now when i go i go for pleasure because my car died on me, and i cant get around anywhere...
BUT MY POINT IS....this is what i meant..and this is why i get so pissed off when someone points fingers and says she is a heartless money grubber.
NO no shes not. She gave me two GEORGOUS healthy puppies and i could never thank her enough!
She took care of alllll the shots needed for them, deworming, and vitamins as babies..everything they needed to get set up at the vet that is routine for puppies she did for me, knowing i couldnt afford too much without sacrifice.
Needless to say, im back to work and things are going great, But without her heart i wouldnt have my two babies!!!

missdeadlocks you are out of control with your posts and your name calling. It is completely unwarranted. Instead of insulting the people who are trying to educate members looking for puppies and anyone with an opposing point of view, maybe you should think about why we would want them to know about brokers. If you are a member of NJ stop puppymills, then you should be aware of the issues and the importance of educating the public.

I have never attacked you personally. I have just posted why one should beware of brokers and I've pointed out the obvious that you are not objective about topknotch since you are employed by them.

Nobody ever said she was a "heartless money grubber" what was said is that she was a broker. Buying puppies from not so reputable breeders and reselling them for a profit to whoever has the money. Plain and simple.

I am going to be very careful when I say this, I am not trying to offend you nor upset you but this statement" alone concerns me...

"She was so excited to make my dreams come true, shekept saying "JAIME FINALLY GOT HER YORKIE, IM SO GLAD" that was my charlie.
Because of this, i had alot of respect for her considering most people in her field of business amoungst almost every breeder i have met in my life, would just say "thats too bad" or "oh well, take care then, maybe in the future when you have the money" ...because they see money signs."

I am not attacking you or questioning your character BUT what happens if one of your puppies gets sick? You cannot afford to buy a dog yet you can , (struggling thru vet school, supporting 2 children) afford major veterinary care if God Forbid something happens? Some of these things can run into thousands of dollars!! Maybe the other breeders were more concerned about how you were going to care for the dog if you (by your own admission) could not afford even a hundred dollar dog?

I repeat.. I am NOT trying to attack you but your side of this argument only furthers the point we have been trying to make on reputable breeders. They are supposed to care about the pups future.

In saying that please understand, IF I were a breeder I would not sell my own daughter a puppy, she has way too much going on in her life and she is the same age as you are. I do not feel she is ready for the commitment nor can she afford it if some emergency came up. That is how a responsible breeder looks at things. It is not about "getting the money" it is about doing right by the dog that they bred.

:clapsmile :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

You know it really doesnt matter what we say to try and educate. People are going to do what the hell they want anyway. So.. Go ahead and support your local puppy mill. All that matters to me at this point is I KNOW that I am doing the right thing for the dogs. No puppy mill or broker is going to get a dime from me. I swear by the starfish story. Im going to continue to speak my mind and if just one person listens then I did my job. So those out there continuing to fight to stop these puppy mills dont ever give up hope. Just one day someone is going to listen to you and you can make a difference.
http://muttcats.com/starfish.htm

Chrissy, that's a beautiful story. I'm going to continue to try and make a difference too! :star: :excited:

Its what keeps me going.
Never give up hope...

THAT'S AWESOME!!!
Thanks for posting it, it is so true...

Missdeadlocks what do you normally charge to set up a website with all the graphic design and such?. I assume it is enough for you to make a living at if you choose to. With that in mind then - was not Susan essentially paid for the dog? So her motives were not as altruistic as you might think.

It continues to amaze me the number of people posting they have her dogs, know of people who have her dogs, or are getting one of her dogs. How many puppies does she normally have available? The number seem high enough, I can't imagine where she is getting all of these quality, reputable breeders willing to sell her pups. So, that leads myself and others to believe they are coming from puppy mills.

And as far as anyone being related to her, good friends etc. and because of those relationships say that she is a good, honest broker, who doesn't buy from mills...think about it? Have not some of the biggest betrayals in history revolved around family members or good friends ? One's relationship does not preclude dishonesty!

Wow! This thread went seriously off topic! I hope the OP finds her little one soon!:)