Nicole, I hear and understand all that you are saying. I too at times am fearful of posting something, b/c I do not want to be jumped either.
Writing emoitions is very difficult and we all have them along with such passion for these creatures.

I myself am just sick to my stomach with the world and how cruel it really, really is. YT is such an awesome place, but on the flip side, I have been awakened to such misery that is going on all this while and I never ever knew it before...

P.S. SORRY FOR THE CAPS ha-ha-ha-ha - It is just habit at times! ;)

That's okay! I know what you mean. ;) For me, this whole thread kinda turned from being okay with Top Notch, to not being okay with how people express their feelings! LOL I almost forgot what we were supposed to be talking about! :eek: :p

Believe me, I have some crazy "beliefs" that many people may disagree with, and that's okay. But as I stated, I LOVE to be educated, not scolded or made to feel like I am wrong or bad. I've had TONS of great, and not so great, convos here on YT (just check my posts, as I don't shut up :eek: LOL). People have changed my mind completely..i.e. breeding my beloved pet! I thought about breeding Baby when I first got her, then I found out what was involved (everyone was so nice in their responses) and I changed my mind. It's when people get jumped on for stuff, that I think they think "Just to piss them off, I'm gonna do the opposite." You know, like what teenagers do? :yelrotflm

That's why I like to state my opinion and try my best not to hurt anyone in my initial post. I wish the person the best, b/c you know darn well they are going to make their own choice. All we can do is educate, and let them be on their way. Guess it's the teacher in me! :)

AW! BabyFidgette, you're awesome! Thank you for getting what I've been saying. I feel like I've been talking to a wall!

Brokers have a bad reputation, and for a reason. Anyone who is looking to buy from them should educate themselves on the business of brokers before the make their decision. But there are exceptions to everything, and that should be explored as well.

I'm baffled by the direction this thread took. I just wanted some input as to where to get my pup! lol Thank you to everyone that PMed me, I appreciate all the help and kind words. I was starting to think coming on here was a bad idea. And I'm so sorry to those of you who feel like they have to talk about their happy experiences in private. Thats really a shame. You have a right to your opinions as well.

I'm going to make a comparison here that will be extreme. It may help some to understand why we are so adamant there are no "good brokers".

During the days of slave trading many began to think the practice was wrong. It wasn't right for one person to own another. The slaves lived in all different types of conditions. Some of the masters were "good" to their slaves, treated them much better than other masters treated their slaves. This didn't matter because it was morally/fundamentally wrong regardless of how the masters (whether related to you or not) treated their slaves. The battle against this practice was long and hard but eventually it was abolished.

I believe the same reasoning can be given in this debate of brokers. Without brokers puppymills would not cease to exist, their numbers would be diminished though. Through education hopefully the general public would not buy from them and that would further reduce their numbers.

No doubt some brokers may treat their dogs better than others. It doesn't matter if the broker is related or not, the practice is still morally/ fundamentally wrong and should be abolished.

I believe all mills should be abolished too!!!! But, let's face it (I know I'm being pessimistic) unfortunatly that's probably far from going to happen. :( Do I honestly believe that if puppymills stop that brokers and pet stores wouldn't be able to get pups? Honestly, no. If people want something, they are going to find a way to get it. Sad, but true. There's always some crazy loop hole(s) in the system. (sigh)

Nicole I think you missed my point. I believe both practices - brokering and puppy mills should be abolished. Yes, there are crazy loopholes in the system, but that doesn't mean you sanction the practice for that reason.

No, I didn't miss your point. Thank you.

So..... Are you saying we should just say screw it and support the mills anyway? Instead of fighting them we should just join them and lets keep those brokers and pet stores in business.
Its this mentality that keeps the mills running strong.
Its actually quite sad :(

EXACTLY!!
This certain broker that is being discussed probably takes great care of the pups in her care but it still doesnt make it right what this person is doing. They are not being bred and sold for the love of the breed they are being bred and sold for the $$$$$ in it. Careful selection isnt being taken when making these pups, I cant see someone whos in it purely for the money care what two dogs they put together. Im sure they dont screen for genetic diseases. Like its being said over and over again but no one seems to get the point. NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL SELL THEIR PUPS TO A BROKER!! Reputable breeders care where their pups are going, you get interview by the breeder before they even mention they have pups.
I think buying a pup from a petstore or a broker is like playing russian roulette. You just dont know what you are going to get when buying that cute little pup. You may get the REALLY sick pup or get really lucky and get a pup that isnt sick. Brokers cant tell you the pups entire background, they can tell you what the breeder told them.
I highly doubt the broker is over at the breeders as we speak discussing pedigrees or health concerns.
Why not find a reputable breeder and give them your hard earned money for a pup that was raised in a clean, loving and healthy enviroment?

very well stated and without insults! ;)

I agree, Jen. We should organize a mailing to our US legislators to enact laws abolishing this horrendous practice.

Yeah, that\'s what I\'m saying. Everyone should support puppymills. So, who\'s up for the weekend trip with me to the PA Puppymill? Let\'s go get some dogs!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How many more times can we hear this? NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WILL SELL THEIR PUPS TO A BROKER!! Please, somebody else say it again, cuz then maybe this hardhead will understand.

God, this thread is getting so annoying!!!!!!!!

Nicole, I\'m not trying to be rude, but your sarcasm is unnecessary and unwarranted. I originally posted in response to \'drboolittle\' because I found it suspicious that a vet would not only support but recommend a broker on her first post to this site. It\'s unethical and I felt compelled to post, especially after speaking to my vet.

Like it or not there is a correlation between mills and brokers. The message "no reputable breeder will sell their pups to a broker" will continue as long as there are people who need to hear it, it\'s educational.

If this thread is "getting so annoying" then why continue to post? :confused: