Huge Bruise Or Huge Rash?

[ladyjane]

And, let me add this....you already know that something happened!!! You spoke with the children and they told you!!!!!

Now you say you don't to assign blame? Think about what you are saying.

Do what you want....like I said, your pup. But, don't come at the community and blame US. SMH

[princetonbaby]

This pic is from today. It pretty much looked like this yesterday too. If this was a huge raging bruise like it appeared before it would still be traces of it in some of the darker areas. There is nothing there. Just a small finger tip sized amount of darker skin near his breastbone that I honestly can't see well due to a tuft of hair right over it. To the naked eye everything that looks purple in the pics actually looks more red.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/pic...ctureid=139741

(Sorry not sure how to make the pic show up in the post directly)

Anyway, point is I'm not trying to argue about this. IF it was an accident by the kids or by the baby then we are already on guard about that. The kids weren't alone with him, by the way. and this isn't the first time in his 5 years with me that he's been over there, or around kids. I have 10 nieces and nephews. He loves the kids and loves to play with them and sleep by them. Accidents do happen. We have rules. Harness comes off immediately now, just in case he was yanked. The little ones already aren't allowed to pick him up and they don't. Nephew knows not to let puppy to jerk and pull on leash if he's walking him outside.

If it WAS A RASH then I have to be on guard for this to happen again and to try to identify what caused it. Maybe I never will. Point is, it matters whether this was a bruise or a rash.

My point in posting was because i was having a hard time finding images for rashes or even bruises on pups on the web that looked like what I was seeing.... so I wanted to share in case someone else needs this and to get perspective from others about what a rash or bruise looks like on their yorkies.

My dog has never had an injury or bruise or rash before aside from something with his poor little butt after a terrible kennel experience. So this was new territory for us.

Thanks for concern, well wishes and opinions!! And thanks for reading my novela length posts!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by princetonbaby

Hi all, (this is long, again, sorry! lol)

I will be updating with pics that I took just now a little later today but I think I have revised my hypothesis as to what happened, with a little added info.

We think it might have been the 1 year old (he will be 1 this month) he is in his throwing everything and hitting things stage and he does hit pretty hard. The other kids said he hit the dog with a toy. Whether or not this is true I will never know for sure.

However, the bruising is about the size of a quarter now and right on the center of his breast bone. It is really bizarre to me because it was HUGE. It even made me wonder if the vet was wrong about it being a bruise at all??

I was so freaked out, obviously, as you can see from the pics, but now you can barely tell it's there and this was how it was most of yesterday too. I've personally never seen a bruise clear up that quickly... I still have a tender spot on my leg where I ran into a guard rail at a movie theater months ago and had a deep large bruise for several weeks.

Princeton went there on Friday evening, and I picked up on Sunday evening and noticed the bruising on Monday. It is now Friday again. Now when I wrote my post I REALLY couldn't tell if it was a bruise or a rash, the pictures make it appear darker and more purple, but it was a really angry red color in person which is why I thought rash.

Now, there is a tiny purplish-red area around the center of his breast bone/top of his chest, but it's not very large or very dark at all.

I'm properly confused. Was the LARGE area a reaction to being hit in a centralized area? Was it a reaction to something else entirely? Was it a rash!? It really was nearly the shape of his harness, which is where that potential idea of what happened came from. He hasn't worn that harness at all since (but he'd been using that one for quite a while with no problems)

Sorry these updates are so wordy! I wish I could just ask my boy what happened!! So I'm sorta thinking out loud as I post. I was really upset and really scared at first. I'm definitely relieved that he is fine and that the massive size has gone down, but I am honestly bewildered. I dont see marks on his neck anymore, or near his armpit or the majority of that side of his chest, just mainly center on the bony area where the ribs come together.

I will have to say I didn't too much care for the vet, he gave him a good once over to make sure he was bending and moving okay and in no pain and no signs of infection/illness but he said bruise very quickly. It was not the vet we normally see and the appointment was quick. Granted for a bruise there isn't much you can do and Duke (I call Princeton this sometimes, don't know where it came from, Lol -- neither name has anything to do with either school!) wasn't in pain so he didn't need pain management. But the vet seemed pretty dismissive into really investigating it and was more worried about what he could have me spend more money on instead ("wanna schedule surgery today?!" even though I expressed fear and hesitation about having him neutered and wanted to discuss everything in depth he just wanted me to get my credit card out. It was dismissive and rude and definitely didn't set me at ease.)

I am going to see if I can get him in with his groomer today or tomorrow, but I got his chest wet again to get a better look and there just isn't much there. It's really odd you guys.

Him being smacked with a toy against that bony part where his ribs come together seems feasible and perhaps the redness was just a reaction? I dont know if he was smacked Friday or Saturday or Sunday. If that's even what happened.

The worst part of this is not knowing what exactly is going on and if it wasn't the kids at all then what was it? I am happy he is okay but I don't ever want to see that sort of coloring on him ever again, that's for sure.

Unfortunately he does have to have bloods drawn in a couple weeks for routine care (heartworm check) and I really hope he doesn't bruise up from it!!

Not sure what more you want to know?

[princetonbaby]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

And, let me add this....you already know that something happened!!! You spoke with the children and they told you!!!!!

Now you say you don't to assign blame? Think about what you are saying.

Do what you want....like I said, your pup. But, don't come at the community and blame US. SMH

You seem to be the only one upset while everyone else is offering concern and suggestions. You think someone beat my baby or something and I simply don't. Trust me if I did I would probably be in cuffs right now, thanks.

I take a 5 and a 3 year old saying that a 1 year old hit the puppy with a toy with a healthy dose of skepticism, I know how their little brains work and I know my nieces and nephews. These aren't kids who I see on holidays and birthdays. I see all 10 of my nieces and nephews several times a week, every week. The 1 year old is always flinging something - which we definitely have to be vigilant about until he learns "gentle" etc. The 10 year old didn't say this or see this happen so no, i do not know that SOMETHING happened because I am still concerned this could be a rash.

and deciding it is simply just one thing is irresponsible as a pet owner and as a human begin. Many things can be true and its my job to try to figure out what that could possibly be with investigating, monitoring and researching. So that we can avoid or be prepared if it happens again. Jumping to conclusions is not and never has been my style.

[princetonbaby]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Not sure what more you want to know?

Maybe I would appreciate being read for context. I used specific wording in that sentence such as we "THINK" it "MAY HAVE" and "DONT KNOW FOR SURE"

Those words I chose are important.

There wasn't a camera, and this alleged thing wasn't seen by the older child or either adult. So do I take a 5 and 3 year old blaming the baby for something as 100% truth, no.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by princetonbaby

Maybe I would appreciate being read for context. I used specific wording in that sentence such as we "THINK" it "MAY HAVE" and "DONT KNOW FOR SURE"

Those words I chose are important.

There wasn't a camera, and this alleged thing wasn't seen by the older child or either adult. So do I take a 5 and 3 year old blaming the baby for something as 100% truth, no.

Well then an adult did it. That dog was clearly bruised/injured. You can do all the spinning you want...any vet...good or bad....knows the difference between a bruise and a rash.

YES, I am upset. You pretty much put blame on this community and clearly don't wish to believe what is obvious. I always hate seeing bad things happen to yorkies...sadly I have seen it over and over and over again. I hope nothing happens to your pup. I would never leave him there again IF I WERE YOU...but I AM NOT YOU.

Yes, I am upset. and I will leave you now. I don't like to bang my head on a brick wall.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by princetonbaby

The fact this his skin his back to its normal color in every area aside from a small tiny spot tells me this likely wasn't a bruise. So, not to be dismissive of the concern of this community, but if it wasn't a bruise I am not going to assign that kind of blame to my sibling or my nieces and nephews and I actually DO want to know what exactly happened.

This is a weird stance to take, because if it was a RASH and NOT a bruise then it is important to know that the vet didn't know what he was talking about and THAT MATTERS

and to know that my puppy could be allergic to something or have been having a bad reaction to a bug bite. Remember in my initial post I mentioned seeing an area that looked like flea dirt and a bump in the same general area and the vet didn't investigate this at all. All of these factors are important. Pics on how his chest looks basically normal now are in the next post.

Bruises do not completely clear up in 3 days. Bruises tend to be tender. This looked like an angry red rash to the naked eye and I will not "forget" the vet or "forget" about trying to figure out what happened because it could happen again.

So, I misread...you didn't blame us. You just think we have no clue...just like you feel about the vet.

It was a bruise. *done*

[princetonbaby]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Well then an adult did it. That dog was clearly bruised/injured. You can do all the spinning you want...any vet...good or bad....knows the difference between a bruise and a rash.

YES, I am upset. You pretty much put blame on this community and clearly don't wish to believe what is obvious. I always hate seeing bad things happen to yorkies...sadly I have seen it over and over and over again. I hope nothing happens to your pup. I would never leave him there again IF I WERE YOU...but I AM NOT YOU.

Yes, I am upset. and I will leave you now. I don't like to bang my head on a brick wall.

You are someone who assumes and doesn't seem to read very well, so I think leaving is a good idea.

The dog WAS NOT CLEARLY BRUISED because if he was I wouldn't be wondering if it was a bruise and a rash. What bruise goes away in 2 days? His chest was nearly clear the next day. What bruise isnt tender to the touch?

My best friend who also has a yorkie who is only a week older than my baby gets random rashes twice a year and she said they look like this actually.

I get it, you're emotional and decided to ignore everything else I said.Me actually being here and seeing him and touching him and seeing it with my own eyes and seeing his behavior and knowing MY dog actually matters. Context matters. Critical thinking matters.

I am rational. It could be a bruise. It could be a rash. I am not going to "forget" trying to figure it out as you suggested, because I actually want to know the TRUTH.

Glad to know you were at the vet and watched how the visit went so you can definitively say what the vet did or didn't do or know. I guess I wasn't there and I guess I didn't say it felt a bit dismissive. But what do I know?

Also not sure where I blamed anyone in this community? Thanks again for assigning words and emotions to me that I didn't express.

Last I checked vets are humans and can be wrong. Why do we get second and third opinions on medical diagnoses if the first person we see is absolutely right just because they are the doct or the vet?

Goodbye now.

[princetonbaby]

To be clear, for people who are concerned and don't want to just yell at me and argue at me as if they saw this happen and were there:

I never said it wasn't for sure a bruise.
It could have been a bruise.
It is gone now, so I can't get a second opinion.
It could have been an injury.
It also could have been a rash.

None of this was CLEAR, as suggested elsewhere, however.

The vet checked to make sure his limbs moved okay and that he didn't appear to be ill or feverish. He pressed on the spot and was visibly surprised that my dog didn't care one bit. He didn't really look through his hair (it was kind of hard to see when he was dry because his hair is kind of long right now) he didn't investigate the way I had.

The vet also told me to expect it to take a while to clear up, and to see it DARKEN up and change color and get really ugly like bruises do. Clearly (our fav word around here) that didn't happen so that raises my concerns as a responsible parent that perhaps it was something else. I wasn't convinced to be honest when we left the vet, but I figured he knows because he sees dogs, so he can quickly glance and say its this and so thats why I returned with the update that the vet said bruise. He really quickly glanced. I mean, I WAS THERE. lol. We didn't see our usual vet who I like very much and would have actually spent more than 4 minutes in our room, and not 3 of them trying to sell me extra products and services we didn't come for.



Why am I arguing? lol

I came here for opinions on other yorkie mamas and papas who may have seen rashes and bruises before, but instead I get attacked by one person who isn't here in person but knows all there is to know and ignores very important context. Strange.

[ladyjane]

Bruises are caused by blood seeping under the skin. The pain is from nerves....you CAN have bruising with no pain.

Your dog had an injury.

You want someone to tell you it didn't happen with those children....in other words, you want to hear what you want to hear.

To be honest, I didn't read all of your posts.....when people call me names, I shut their nonsense out. Calling me "angry lady" and "insane" is really against the terms of service here and I suggest you find a better way to respond with your displeasure. You are totally entitled to your opinions...but calling names is wrong. The answer to your last question: You are arguing because, as I said above, you want us to say what you want to hear. Period.

There are plenty of members here who will pat you on the back and say ladyjane is evil and I am good.... that was not a bruise. The children didn't do anything. That is what you want to hear.

The ONLY thing I am upset about here is that your poor dog is going to be left alone again with children who did hurt him....call me the evil juror for stating the obvious. You have not presented anything but pretty much clear and concise evidence of that! Read the comment about your one year old nephew. I don't see anything that leaves open the language "beyond reasonable doubt".

I suggest you read about the different types of bruising....again...they do not all look the same and they do not all hurt. If I felt I had to get a second opinion about whether something was a bruise or a rash...... .. never mind...I am not even going there. LOL

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by princetonbaby

To be clear, for people who are concerned and don't want to just yell at me and argue at me as if they saw this happen and were there:

I never said it wasn't for sure a bruise.
It could have been a bruise.
It is gone now, so I can't get a second opinion.
It could have been an injury.
It also could have been a rash.

None of this was CLEAR, as suggested elsewhere, however.

The vet checked to make sure his limbs moved okay and that he didn't appear to be ill or feverish. He pressed on the spot and was visibly surprised that my dog didn't care one bit. He didn't really look through his hair (it was kind of hard to see when he was dry because his hair is kind of long right now) he didn't investigate the way I had.

The vet also told me to expect it to take a while to clear up, and to see it DARKEN up and change color and get really ugly like bruises do. Clearly (our fav word around here) that didn't happen so that raises my concerns as a responsible parent that perhaps it was something else. I wasn't convinced to be honest when we left the vet, but I figured he knows because he sees dogs, so he can quickly glance and say its this and so thats why I returned with the update that the vet said bruise. He really quickly glanced. I mean, I WAS THERE. lol. We didn't see our usual vet who I like very much and would have actually spent more than 4 minutes in our room, and not 3 of them trying to sell me extra products and services we didn't come for.



Why am I arguing? lol

I came here for opinions on other yorkie mamas and papas who may have seen rashes and bruises before, but instead I get attacked by one person who isn't here in person but knows all there is to know and ignores very important context. Strange.

You got what you came for but you didn't want it. You had a warning and if you love your pup, you will not leave him alone with those children again. It is as simple as that...it is not saying anything bad about them. It is just a fact....he needs to not be alone with them for his own good. Next time might not be such a good outcome.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by princetonbaby

yes because bruises magically go away in 2 days and aren't tender. You do science so well. angry lady. and IF it WASN'T A BRUISE and he has a reaction like this again, do I get to just sit idly by and "forget" it because what I see doesn't matter?

You sound insane. What if it was a food allergy (my sis in law said he got a hold of something the kids were eating)? What if it was a bug bite? None of that matters because you have single-handedly decided it is one thing.

You also don't have very good reading comprehension because words I choose like IF matter. It means more than one answer could be possible here and it's important to not jump to conclusions.

I would HATE to have YOU on a jury panel, lady. Please stop replying to my posts now.

Sorry, but only I will decide whether to post here or not. If you don't wish to read my posts, don't....you could use the little "ignore" feature if you find me too annoying. You can find it on the left side on the control panel.

I am here to help.....if you don't want the help I offer, so be it.

[princetonbaby]

So anyway,
for anyone who may come here in the future concerned about a weird RASH on their dog that goes away in 1 day...
feel free to private message me if you'd like to know more about the rash, or see the video of the red rash (unfortunately the pics made it look purply, and it was really just red in person) and the flea dirt and the possible bug bite next to it (a tiny sized scab like 1mm wide that bled a bit when I picked at it, that I thought was a tick and Dr Dismissive didn't even comb his fur to look at it himself, great Doc!!!!1!! all vets are all-knowing!! *eye roll*)

Never again going to the vet near to our home, instead we will do the 25 minute trip to our normal vet as usual. Frustrating that 95% of a vet visit is treated like sales call when you are in a panic about your baby.

I am happy he wasn't injured and just had a weird reaction to something. Contact dermatitis or flea allergy dermatitis it seems. I'll post a bunch of stuff in his album for anyone who wishes to peruse for their own research. I appreciate deductive reasoning and discussion and not kneejerk emotional irrational reactions.

Too bad our babies can't talk to us, so we owe it to them to thoroughly investigate, research, monitor and asses for their best interest.

My baby loves his cousins and luckily I dont think all children are evil little clumsy violent creatures who football punt puppies like some people seem to think. We will probably visit them again on Sunday, since I know he is perfectly safe there.

Gotta go now though, the little guy is violently humping a toy and I need to tell him to take a break. Toodles.

[princetonbaby]

Also thanks for all the private notes <3 truly appreciate it.

I try not to project personal feelings of things I have seen in my life into my decision making of things that are happening in front of me. Its important that we are careful to make sound decisions, not just emotional ones. If I would have flown off the handle emotionally I could have caused a problem that needed not exist. I also wouldn't presume to be right about something that I am only reading about and not witnessing in real time. It's good to be a listener and to be kind to one another.

We come to this forum for community and understanding, not to be attacked.
Have a great weekend, all!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by princetonbaby

Also thanks for all the private notes <3 truly appreciate it.

I try not to project personal feelings of things I have seen in my life into my decision making of things that are happening in front of me. Its important that we are careful to make sound decisions, not just emotional ones. If I would have flown off the handle emotionally I could have caused a problem that needed not exist. I also wouldn't presume to be right about something that I am only reading about and not witnessing in real time. It's good to be a listener and to be kind to one another.

We come to this forum for community and understanding, not to be attacked.
Have a great weekend, all!

I gave you information you don't want. That is not an attack. If anyone was attacked it was me .. calling me names but it is what it is. Just so you know....this forum does not allow attacks. If you feel anyone does attack you, you can click on the little exclamation point in the lower left hand corner and report it.