Annabelle Has Pancreatitis--again

[P Hudson]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

So happy to hear your baby is home again. I bet she is over the moon with happiness after her spell at the vet's. The food mix you are giving sounds very bland and should not tax her system. I hope she is eating it. Good idea to feed a little and often until she is well again. When you talk with the vet I am sure he will give the right food and advice on her diet from now on. Also did he give her any Cerenia for nausea? If she is enjoying her food she probably does not feel sick though. Hoping you all have a good night and that your baby feels much better now.

I still haven't looked at the list of things they gave her. Too busy trying to give her the right diet and our other dog his right diet and keep them from getting into each other's food. I also spent time rubbing Anna's tummy while she went to sleep in my arms.

She only threw up once--I guess it counts as once since she ate it back up before I could stop her the first time--before I took her to the hospital. It was a tiny bit, but she wasn't interested in anything and I could tell she felt really bad.

At first when I got her back home she was a little tentative about eating, but by her last portion I offered her, she was really into it. I didn't give her more tonight. I thought it best to wait until morning and not tax her system.

[P Hudson]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

That's wonderful Annabelle is home...poor baby girl. I hate seeing them have to be hospitalized...I always wonder what they are thinking.

That same thought kept going through my mind the whole time.

[P Hudson]

Anna had loose stool with blood and mucous this morning, which was one of the things we were told to look out for.

We took her to her regular vet who checked her stool sample for certain parasites, which he didn't find, but to help with other possibles, she's on Flagyl temporarily.

I post this for anyone who has a dog with pancreatitis and may not know that this is something you look for when they are "better."

She's playing and her tummy isn't tender. She's also whining a lot more, not in pain but more like "I want attention." She's probably feeling a bit insecure. Can't blame her.

[dottiesyrky]

So sorry that poor Anna has the loose and bloody stool. Did your vet think it was still the lingering Pancreatitis or something else? Did they get a cPL number for her to see what the level of the disease is now? You say she is on Flagyl but did the vet also suggest Cerenia? I say this as when my dog had the P this helped him a lot with nausea. I also think that getting her on the canned ID Low Fat food is important. Could be even the bland diet you were giving her was too much for a weak tummy.
Sorry for all the comments, but they are based on what happened to my dog.
Hope she feels better soon. I know how concerned you are with your poor baby.

[ladyjane]

Poor baby....do hope she clears up soon. Sounds like she is on the mend....I am sure your vet advised you to let them know if things don't improve.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

So sorry that poor Anna has the loose and bloody stool. Did your vet think it was still the lingering Pancreatitis or something else? Did they get a cPL number for her to see what the level of the disease is now? You say she is on Flagyl but did the vet also suggest Cerenia? I say this as when my dog had the P this helped him a lot with nausea. I also think that getting her on the canned ID Low Fat food is important. Could be even the bland diet you were giving her was too much for a weak tummy.
Sorry for all the comments, but they are based on what happened to my dog.
Hope she feels better soon. I know how concerned you are with your poor baby.

Honestly, cPL is not as great as one might think. It is used as a diagnostic tool, but there are so many other factors to consider. I have had so many different pups with pancreatitis and spent a lot of time talking with the specialists about it. It really is a scary thing as you have mentioned....I almost lost a pup to it and that happened very quickly. He had to be given plasma and was given a 50/50 chance of survival. His symptoms had only started that day.
I have never had a repeat cPL suggested and/or done with any of my pups. Just an FYI because it does cost a few bucks and it takes a couple of days to get results. There is a snap test, but again, it is not a total 100% great diagnostic tool. Symptoms, physical exam, ultrasound and other blood work is all put into the mix to come to a diagnosis.

[ladyjane]

A link regarding the accuracy of cPL and Snap in diagnosing pancreatitis:

Diagnostic accuracy of the SNAP and Spec canine pancreatic lipase tests for pancreatitis in dogs presenting with clinical signs of acute abdominal disease - Haworth - 2014 - Journal of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care - Wiley Online Library

[dottiesyrky]

Thank you for your comments and for the link.
I agree that the snap and full cPL tests are not 100% conclusive, and other exams and tests have to be used to have a definitive diagnosis.
All I know is my own limited experience with my dog. When he got sick the vet did all the usual exams and tests and a snap cPL. This latter test showed that pancreatitis was likely and the full test showed a value of 399. The other indicators also supported a P diagnosis. After a couple of weeks of meds and prescription food, my dog seemed well again. The cPL test then came back at 93. So for my dog the cPL test seemed to be a good indication of pancreatitis, and I suppose I now have faith in it. I also feel that the snap test can be done quickly in the vet's office and can indicate the possibility of P without waiting for the full tests the next day or later. That is all I am saying, it can be a quick test and it worked for me. I did not feel the cost was that excessive as a first shot.
As for Annabel, I understood she had been diagnosed with P at first, but I do not know what tests resulted in that diagnosis. I again was only suggesting the test as it could it helpful, but of course the vet decides what tests to carry out to check on the progress of the disease.
I know that any info we give here can only be based on our own experience and is not to be taken as gospel. Most people go to vets but still ask here for the views that others here may have.
Hoping little Annabel feels better soon.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Thank you for your comments and for the link.
I agree that the snap and full cPL tests are not 100% conclusive, and other exams and tests have to be used to have a definitive diagnosis.
All I know is my own limited experience with my dog. When he got sick the vet did all the usual exams and tests and a snap cPL. This latter test showed that pancreatitis was likely and the full test showed a value of 399. The other indicators also supported a P diagnosis. After a couple of weeks of meds and prescription food, my dog seemed well again. The cPL test then came back at 93. So for my dog the cPL test seemed to be a good indication of pancreatitis, and I suppose I now have faith in it. I also feel that the snap test can be done quickly in the vet's office and can indicate the possibility of P without waiting for the full tests the next day or later. That is all I am saying, it can be a quick test and it worked for me. I did not feel the cost was that excessive as a first shot.
As for Annabel, I understood she had been diagnosed with P at first, but I do not know what tests resulted in that diagnosis. I again was only suggesting the test as it could it helpful, but of course the vet decides what tests to carry out to check on the progress of the disease.
I know that any info we give here can only be based on our own experience and is not to be taken as gospel. Most people go to vets but still ask here for the views that others here may have.
Hoping little Annabel feels better soon.

Test numbers can fluctuate greatly and while the snap test is relatively inexpensive, the cPL is not. I believe it is around $150 but could be more, but my guess is that it would probably be meaningless to repeat it at this point. I am surprised your vet did that repeat test...I have not ever been advised to do that. I have had blood work repeated by them, but not cPL or snap cPL. But, each vet has his/her own thoughts on things. Mine usually like to treat the dog, not the numbers. That was emphasized greatly by one of the specialists I see and it really is what I have experienced with most vets. There is one vet at my vet's office that tends to rely way too much on lab studies...kind of avoid that one as much as I can. I always agree to have all necessary labs done, but this vet seems to be out fishing if that makes sense. I really was only sharing what I have been told based upon more experience with pancreatitis than I ever wanted to have. As you know, it can be downright frightening...and can kill. I hate that our beloved breed is so prone to it.

[dottiesyrky]

Correction.
On reading my past posts on this thread I said the cPL test number was 299, but it was 399!! I also gave numbers after my dog was better from P and mistakenly gave cPL numbers as snap instead of the complete test. Sorry, but it was some time ago and I got it wrong.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Correction.
On reading my past posts on this thread I said the cPL test number was 299, but it was 399!! I also gave numbers after my dog was better from P and mistakenly gave cPL numbers as snap instead of the complete test. Sorry, but it was some time ago and I got it wrong.

I don't think it really matters. I wouldn't worry about that at all. I didn't even catch it....snap does not have numbers.

[dottiesyrky]

My vet suggested the cPL test the first time but it was I who requested the repeat to see if my dog was feeling better. Unlike you, I did have faith in that test and therefore the numbers were important to me. I do trust my vet and I do not think he suggests tests just for the income.
I am so terrified of my dog getting P.again that if he has the slightest GI issues I take him in for tests. I requested the full CPL test and the vet did it for me. But he also did a full blood and urine panel. Lucky he did as my dog did not have P but a UTI!!! If you remember he also included the new SDMA kidney function test! Probably as my previous girl died of kidney failure and he knew that concerned me!
We all have our views on vets and other matters and I respect that.

I corrected the numbers as I did not wish to be inconsistent! I also understand that the snap is only qualitative and that is why I corrected that too.

[P Hudson]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

So sorry that poor Anna has the loose and bloody stool. Did your vet think it was still the lingering Pancreatitis or something else? Did they get a cPL number for her to see what the level of the disease is now? You say she is on Flagyl but did the vet also suggest Cerenia? I say this as when my dog had the P this helped him a lot with nausea. I also think that getting her on the canned ID Low Fat food is important. Could be even the bland diet you were giving her was too much for a weak tummy.
Sorry for all the comments, but they are based on what happened to my dog.
Hope she feels better soon. I know how concerned you are with your poor baby.

I wish he had given her Cerenia because last night she began vomiting. At the time we saw the vet she wasn't vomiting, and even though the stool sample showed none of the parasites that could be seen through their microscope, he wanted to put her on Flagyl in case she had P *and* something else.

The vet didn't do more bloodwork, but palpated her, took her temperature, looked at her gums, did a pretty thorough exam plus the analysis of the stool sample. She seemed to feel okay other than the blood in the stool.

But when I got her home and gave her boiled rice with a tiny bit of low-fat cottage cheese and a miniscule amount of boiled chicken breast, she ate with gusto and may have eaten too fast or too much, though it was a small amount. Plus she's hard to give pills to but is suffering from terrible itching from allergies, so I wrapped half a Benadryl (approved by the vet) in a bit of the chicken and she threw that up whole. So now we're struggling to give her meds without food.

She was playing and acting more like her old self a little while ago, though not as vigorously as usual. I didn't let it go on too long because I assume she needs to take it easy.

She drank water and kept it down. So I peeled and cut up a potato and boiled it until it was falling apart and gave her a smear--about 1/8 of an eraser tip. She ate it (she was refusing rice or the cottage cheese--and she's kept that bit of potato down as well as the water, Benadryl and Flagyl. So I've got my fingers crossed and am waiting for the vet to call back about the vomiting.

She got up in the middle of the night and left a loose bowel movement on the floor--not something she would normally do. i slept through it but my husband cleaned it up, looked for signs of blood and saw none.

Guess this is going to be a longer road to recovery than I thought. I did copy a recipe for a homemade diet from a book at the vets office. I didn't like that it said to put a salt substitute and iodized salt in it, but I guess that's for the minerals. Also said to supplement with a children's vitamin and mineral pill. I think I'd prefer to make her a homemade diet, and maybe supplement with prepared dog food.

I had another beloved yorkie who passed from kidney disease in cancer in 2006 two keeps shy of his 15th birthday. He had also had pancreatitis. He hated the Hills Rx food, and even back then it was more than a dollar a can. Anna's 9.6 lbs. Not fat but a little bigger than the average yorkie. (Her brother is 13 libs.) Oh, and that's another thing: my dogs were on self-feed with their Blue Buffalo grain-free kibble plus, regrettably, table scraps, so I don't even know how much to feed her when she's well, though I'm sure that information is available in lots of places.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Every bit of information helps. And it's comforting to not feel so alone in this.

[ladyjane]

I would hold back on the cottage cheese. Dairy products can cause GI issues.

The only thing I feed my pups after a bout with pancreatitis is either Hill's ID or Purina EN .. per the vet specialists I use.

[P Hudson]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Thank you for your comments and for the link.
I agree that the snap and full cPL tests are not 100% conclusive, and other exams and tests have to be used to have a definitive diagnosis.
All I know is my own limited experience with my dog. When he got sick the vet did all the usual exams and tests and a snap cPL. This latter test showed that pancreatitis was likely and the full test showed a value of 399. The other indicators also supported a P diagnosis. After a couple of weeks of meds and prescription food, my dog seemed well again. The cPL test then came back at 93. So for my dog the cPL test seemed to be a good indication of pancreatitis, and I suppose I now have faith in it. I also feel that the snap test can be done quickly in the vet's office and can indicate the possibility of P without waiting for the full tests the next day or later. That is all I am saying, it can be a quick test and it worked for me. I did not feel the cost was that excessive as a first shot.
As for Annabel, I understood she had been diagnosed with P at first, but I do not know what tests resulted in that diagnosis. I again was only suggesting the test as it could it helpful, but of course the vet decides what tests to carry out to check on the progress of the disease.
I know that any info we give here can only be based on our own experience and is not to be taken as gospel. Most people go to vets but still ask here for the views that others here may have.
Hoping little Annabel feels better soon.

The original vet was the emergency vet. They took her back to examine her while we were left sitting and waiting in the waiting room. When we got to talk to the vet, she said they did a general blood work up and maybe--I just can't remember because I was so stressed--a more specific test. She said something about the first number (of the two markers), which I also can't remember, but what I do remember was that the first number was so high they couldn't read it. She also said that Anna seemed to be very tender in the area of the pancreas and they thought she should stay and it likely would not be just one night. She said they could run the specific test for P but that would only tell them to look elsewhere. As I type this, this doesn't make much sense but I was scared and was looking to the expert for help. if she'd told me it would be helpful if I stood in the middle of the highway and tried to juggle, I probably would have done it.

I'm not as knowledgeable about the differences in blood tests, so I can't really address that.

The vet called and since she's kept the water, pills and potato down and the stool looks better and she's been playful, we're going to wait and see how she does, and tomorrow if she's still vomiting we'll take her to see him. He said we could give her Pepcid, and if it gets really bad, a "shot" for the vomiting. He said it could be that she ate too much for her and her stomach was distended which brought on the vomiting.