Here We Are Again - Tibbe Holding Forepaw Up! Need Advice. :(

[yorkietalkjilly]

Poor little Tibbe - he must have the worst genes in the world! Or that Hill's i/d and l/d prescription food he eats for his MVD/IBS is just junk and allowing his body parts to weaken. But I've been too scared to even try to change his diet - the slightest change seems to start him on a bad bout of IBS with nausea, vomiting, diarrhea - squatting every 30 mins., getting raw, losing all his fluids, dehydration, lethargy and only weeks of medicine and treatment and/or maybe just time finally seem to fix him. He's always dealing or suffering from something! I feel so sorry for him. We are at the vet's office at least once a month - sometimes twice a month! He just turned 8 and we couldn't have a party or even celebrate because of his left leg and needing to keep him quiet!

The latest happened when a top leg of his wooden ramp to the big bed in the bedroom got loose and I substituted his doggie steps which lacked about 5" coming to the top of the mattress and he used them for about 24 hrs. as we spent a good deal of that next day in the bed with the door closed while the housecleaner was here. The next day, Tibbe was holding his left forepaw up with regularity. He wasn't limping and he still isn't but here's what's happened since.

The next day after he hurt it jumping to and from the bed, I took Tibbe to the vet - for waking with red eyes(?from the housecleaning dust?) and the apparently painful forepaw. The vet couldn't palpate any tenderness or reproduce any pain or observe any gait changes in him, diagnosed a likely strain/sprain and said crate-rest as much as possible for two weeks, no jumping and return in 2 weeks. I've had him on crate-rest, no jumping and am lifting him up/down from the couch and bed!!! My back and neck are OUT - sore and unhappy - can't keep this up. He doesn't seem to be any better as when he gets excited, his jumps around and goes around in fast circles on the floor at the drop of a hat - which I barely can contain - in time. Every ring of the doorbell or knock on the door or asking him if he wants dinner or to go outside and he's going in circles, bouncing and jumping before I can say "Stop!" and get him still. I've had to start keeping him in his carrier when anyone is expected at the door within a 30 min. window to protect his leg!

Vet said that if the problem persists, we'll need to do blood work to check the state of his liver and then start him on NSAIDS, which will be hard on his liver, I think she inferred. Tibbe has MVD - microvascular dysplasia with a compromised liver and pretty severe IBS. He does pretty well now on his Hill's i/d Gastrointestinal and l/d Hepatic combined, as he can't eat more than half his meal of the hepatic diet without severe itching. He hasn't had any nausea at all since I've gotten home from the hospital - yea!!!!

His eye redness is gone thanks to the eye drops he's been on and he seems to occasionally favor the left paw now, still holds it up about half the time when standing still and I've made a vet appt. for tomorrow for the blood work and possible NSAIDS as I can't keep lifting him when he wants up where I am on the couch or bed. We've got to get this left leg well!

What would you all do - assuming it's not a tear or something besides arthritis or joint inflammation - give the NSAIDS even if they help his wrist or elbow or whatever is sore or inflamed and take the chance on the compromising his liver? Or allow him to use his doggie steps and both of us sleep on the couch to see if his left leg gets better on its own?

[Yorkiemom1]

Personally, I would not compromise the liver in any way....THAT creates alot of issues you really dont want to be dealing with right now....can you rest well sleeping on the couch? If it were me, we would be on the couch, and I would see if Tibbie works thru whatever is painful in that little foot....you can not handle a dog sick with liver failure at this stage of your own recovery! I would do warm soaks, massages, warm compresses, ANYTHING that does NOT challenge his liver function!

[Wylie's Mom]

Poor little Tibster ! And poor you too. You both have so very much to deal with right now. Gosh, I don't know what I'd do....I think I'd mostly want to know if there was *any* other alternative to an NSAID...is there?

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Personally, I would not compromise the liver in any way....THAT creates alot of issues you really dont want to be dealing with right now....can you rest well sleeping on the couch? If it were me, we would be on the couch, and I would see if Tibbie works thru whatever is painful in that little foot....you can not handle a dog sick with liver failure at this stage of your own recovery! I would do warm soaks, massages, warm compresses, ANYTHING that does NOT challenge his liver function!

Thank you, Judy. I've not been doing any warm compresses or soaks, just rest/no jumping so far but realized with his excited jumping and spinning, he wasn't getting a lot of good out of the "rest, no jumping" but we finally - I think - have a handle on the wild spinning. Took that long for me to train him to begin to try to overcome - with his own little willpower - the urge to spin in circles and jump when excited. It's SO second nature to him. Dang but that is hard to do with a Yorkie who's spent 8 years reacting the same way to excitement. Now that we have a beginning handle on that - soaks, compresses might help but I'll tell you, lifting him is almost more than I can handle physically with my neck joints inflammation and generalized sore muscles all around it, I guess from too much "malingering"and lounging around healing up, though I seem constantly on the go just getting us through a regular day. There's always 10 more things to do once you sit down!

I don't rest well on the couch at all but it's far easier to manage than that long trek down the hall to the bedroom, that high bed and trying to manage Tibbe throught all that.

If only his bedroom ramp hadn't gone down! It's lighter weight for a big ramp parallel bed ramp(a friend cobbled it together for me) but just not that sturdy and it moved often to make the bed, clean, etc. At least his new one is on the way - hopefully I can train him to use it safely as it's only 16" wide and will rest perpendicular to the bed and hopefully hang onto the mattress firmly enough! It's actually a car ramp but the only one I could find that's light weight enough for me to physically manage and live with and around on a daily basis while looking for a manageable parallel replacement ramp. He'll have to walk up and down this emergency replacement ramp something like one of the Flying Wallenda's balancing on one of those precarious slanted high wires and lord help us if Tibbs gets suddenly excited while using it, tries to hurry down, jump off, etc. I'm trying to find one like his present light-weight, rickety one that goes parallel to the bed rather than perpendicular to it like the hurry-up replacement one does but can't find one that isn't 3 or more inches too tall, or reviews that say it's really perfect except the carpet is way too slippery or the angle much too steep for the dog to safely manage or way too heavy for me to manage, move out and back during cleaning, bed-making, pulling the covers up and down, etc. Sometimes the reality of living with a very tiny dog is so hard!

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Poor little Tibster ! And poor you too. You both have so very much to deal with right now. Gosh, I don't know what I'd do....I think I'd mostly want to know if there was *any* other alternative to an NSAID...is there?

IDK, Ann. Going to have to check all that out with the vet. Best thing is, either don't grow older or get any significant orthopedic problems if you live alone and own a Yorkie. Lately, all I do is whine and complain on YT!

[dottiesyrky]

Poor boy, having a hurt foot/leg. And poor you too, such hard work for an aching and recovering body to deal with. I can imagine what an impossible task it is to keep him quiet and rested, but the good news is that he can't be in too much bad pain or he would be lying around more? Hope the strain soon heals and then perhaps you will not have to start more meds and risk GI problems too. I wonder if perhaps the vet could put a splint or binding on him to restrict leg/paw movement, and then he could run around? Praying that there is no other liver etc issue to complicate this!!!!
I hope you can get the new ramp soon so you don't have to lift Tibbe up. At least he uses it!!! My tyke will go halfway up or down and still jump the rest!!!
You are right, getting older or less able to move around, and owning a lively Yorkie does sometimes challenge us!!!
Hope he gets well again very soon so that you can continue your recovery.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Poor boy, having a hurt foot/leg. And poor you too, such hard work for an aching and recovering body to deal with. I can imagine what an impossible task it is to keep him quiet and rested, but the good news is that he can't be in too much bad pain or he would be lying around more? Hope the strain soon heals and then perhaps you will not have to start more meds and risk GI problems too. I wonder if perhaps the vet could put a splint or binding on him to restrict leg/paw movement, and then he could run around? Praying that there is no other liver etc issue to complicate this!!!!
I hope you can get the new ramp soon so you don't have to lift Tibbe up. At least he uses it!!! My tyke will go halfway up or down and still jump the rest!!!
You are right, getting older or less able to move around, and owning a lively Yorkie does sometimes challenge us!!!
Hope he gets well again very soon so that you can continue your recovery.

Poor little Tibbe - he gets the worst breaks in life. Who would think changing a doggie jump would hurt a dog - all this time and it's never happened before. He seems to be favoring it this past day or so but he's also usually baiting me to play and chase him. I won't - I know he thinks I've turned into a total troll! We can't play, go for walks and he has to spend time in his crate when someone is expected a the door. But we still have to do toenails, give medicine, brush teeth, get baths - all the yucky stuff. Well, he does seem to enjoy his bath time. Poor baby - wish I could wiggle my nose & fix him NOW. He just looks at me as if asking what's wrong and I try to explain.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

IDK, Ann. Going to have to check all that out with the vet. Best thing is, either don't grow older or get any significant orthopedic problems if you live alone and own a Yorkie. Lately, all I do is whine and complain on YT!

I know soooo many of us wish we lived closer to you bc I know we'd all love to help you out, in a heartbeat! I hate it that you don't have more help with everything ...just not fair/right.

Another thought...if an Rx type med isn't available, maybe you could explore safe herbal anti-inflammatories...? Another thought too is topical nsaids like Voltaren Gel (which I use at times for a toe joint of mine)...there may still be some liver involvement but if it's topical it may be much less threatening. If vet doesn't have Voltaren Gel for dogs, you could bring the 'scrip to your pharmacist.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I know soooo many of us wish we lived closer to you bc I know we'd all love to help you out, in a heartbeat! I hate it that you don't have more help with everything ...just not fair/right.

Another thought...if an Rx type med isn't available, maybe you could explore safe herbal anti-inflammatories...? Another thought too is topical nsaids like Voltaren Gel (which I use at times for a toe joint of mine)...there may still be some liver involvement but if it's topical it may be much less threatening. If vet doesn't have Voltaren Gel for dogs, you could bring the 'scrip to your pharmacist.

Ann, I love you! You are such a sweet soul.

I have some Voltaren Gel!!! I only half-heartedly put some on my neck Sunday and forgot I used it. It might help Tibbe. I have a tiny tube my doctor gave me to try out and it hasn't worked on my hip - the pain in the left hip is deep, intra-articular generated but it might work on him. Should I ask the vet to ask if it's safe.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Would a trial of pain medication work? Anyone know if there pain meds that won't compromise a dog with MVD's liver? Anyone ever given pain medication for a sprain/strain to their dog with what I guess is a fairly mild case of MVD?

[buddybear]

I don't know about the pain meds for Tibbe but for people you can take an herb/spice Tumeric for inflammation. It takes a while to get into your system and I have no clue what the dosage for your dog would be.

Wishing you and Tibbe super fast healing!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Ann, I love you! You are such a sweet soul.

I have some Voltaren Gel!!! I only half-heartedly put some on my neck Sunday and forgot I used it. It might help Tibbe. I have a tiny tube my doctor gave me to try out and it hasn't worked on my hip - the pain in the left hip is deep, intra-articular generated but it might work on him. Should I ask the vet to ask if it's safe.

Right back atcha - you know I love ya too!!!

Yup, I would definitely ask the vet if you could use the Voltaren gel. It may not do a ton for any pain he's experiencing, but it could help w/ any inflammation that's occurring...which if it decreases, will then help more w/ the pain.

[Scoobstersmom]

Regarding the Tumeric, google Golden Paste. There is a lot of info out there about it, including recipes. I have used it in the past with a liver compromised dog and my vet approved, but he did not have MVD so definitely check first.


Tramadol is one of the safer pain meds, and should be okay at least short term for a liver compromised dog. But again, it's just something to talk over with your vet.


Maybe it's just my previous bad experience talking, but no way would I put an 8 year old dog on an NSAID, even short term. Actually, I won't let any of my dogs have them, no matter what. It would have to be life or death for me to change my mind and even then it would take some convincing. It is impossible to tell how a dog will react to them, and in some cases even a few doses can cause damage to liver or kidneys.


For a very senior rescue toy poodle I have with bad knees, I use Synovi G3. It's formulated into a chewy little treat that must taste awesome because my dogs gobble it down like crack. He gets 1/2 of a small treat, and my other two younger dogs split the other half just because they love it. He still holds one back leg up for a minute or two occasionally, but it has improved his mobility by at least 75%.


Good luck. I hope you find a solution that works for Tibbe.


Diana

[lisaly]

Poor little boy and his loving mom! I'm so sorry that you and Tibbe are going through so much. I know you are afraid to give Tibbe anything new, but have you ever considered a liver support for him? I know Judy uses milk thistle from petwellbeing.com as a preventative and is very happy with it. When Katie had her dental last month, I decided to give her something that would help her body remove the anesthesia from her liver. Katie has no problems with her liver, but I worry about the pesticides she is exposed to daily on our long walks and from the flea/tick and heartworm medications. I thought of it a little late for her dental, so I only received it the day after. Since I was in a rush, I ordered it from Nature's Farmacy, a company I know and trust. Jackie has used it a while for all four of her dogs, but only one takes daily medication for pain. Like the Probiotic Max, it easily sprinkles on food. I've heard such good things about milk thistle, and I'm going to use it as a preventive, as well If you want to try it, I have more than enough to share. You can call Jeanette at Nature's Farmacy and ask her about how well it would be tolerated for a dog with Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

You are never far from my thoughts. You and Tibbe are such a special team. Please take care of yourself, too.

https://naturesfarmacy.com/store/pro...ver-support-8/
https://naturesfarmacy.com
Dog Liver Disease Treatment - Milk Thistle for Dog Liver Problems

[Maximo]

Poor Tibbe and you! I'm glad his eyes are doing better and I hope his paw is feeling better today.

[Yorkiemom1]

In the past, with liver compromised patients, we used to give "Vicroprophen" or "Oxycodone" for pain, which are both filtered thru the kidneys, NOT the liver.....that gives some options for you to check out.....