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10-07-2014, 11:46 AM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 5
| Congestive Heart Failure Hello, I've searched this forum for posts related to Congestive Heart Failure and didn't see this answered. I apologize for registering just when advice is sought, but am trying to find some answers prior to getting a 2nd opinion from an alternate veternarian. Our 13 year old family yorkie has recently been diagnosed with stage 3 CHF. It came as a surprise since at 13 most people think he is only 3-5 years old, is still extremely active, eats like a hog, and has no bladder or gastrointestinal issues. Basically, he exhibits no signs of CHF for a dog labeled as stage 3. There is no activity loss (he will actually play ball or fetch until he collapses if it were up to him), and there is no cough. Oddly too, he has just instantly lost 95% of his hearing, now only able to hear loud claps and the high pitch squeaky toys. The vet said there was no sign of an ear infection. My parents thought there was an infection and applied a prescription liquid antibiotic, which may have resulted in the deafness. Basically, I am trying to find out if anyone else's yorkie with chf was asymptomatic. I am hoping it is a misdiagnosis of a respiratory infection and that his hearing will be restored as well. He has been prescribed 1/4th 2.5mg tablet of Enalapril, daily. Thanks in advance. |
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10-07-2014, 04:34 PM | #2 |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
| Hello and welcome to Yorkie Talk. I am sorry to hear your precious boy is having health issues. Why does the vet think he has CHF? Is it based on how his heart sounds? I would think there would be some kind of symptoms. The hearing loss is not that unusual. I hope the meds help his heart. You might consider a second opinion also because I have had some misdiagnosed in the past. Please keep us updated on how he is doing.
__________________ "Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." |
10-07-2014, 05:05 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,721
| That is the sweetest photo, he does look so young! I think in giant mvtters like congestive heart failure a second opinion is always very reasonable to seek on but particularly if he is asymptomatic. That said, I would suppose there is a reason doc labeled him as such- what information did he use to come to that conclusion? I'm sorry that you guys are going through this and I wish you both the best
__________________ Alyssa and Lilah |
10-07-2014, 05:19 PM | #4 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 5
| Hi bjh, Thank you for your reply. According to the vet, she detected a heart murmur. I was under the impression that stage 1 would be detected by a stethoscope, but in the range of stage 3 and up one could physically feel the erratic heart beat. Bandit has regular vet check-ups, heart-worm meds, etc. It still feels odd this is stage 3 considering no detection prior. I can understand the hearing loss, but the instantaneousness of chf puzzles me. Looking through the forums I see people with a lot worse to deal with, and we're looking with Bandit at some longevity while properly medicated. The suddenness of a dog with such a youthful disposition taking such a turn is the shocking part...and the fact not being able to communicate the fact of his condition when he loves to play 'all of the time' is disheartening as well. I can afford a second opinion right now and I am not concerned about any retaliation from a perceived lack of confidence in our vet from their angle. Bandit is my concern right now, not the feelings of the vet. If his hearing is gone, we at least enjoyed the last Paul McCartney album together. The song 'New' is our song...and as weird as it seems, it means a lot to have shared that experience with a pet...yet it also is saddening knowing we won't hear it together again. Bandit also LOVES this song..here's the YouTube link, and I hope some other yorkies out there like it too: Thank you again for your encouragement! |
10-07-2014, 05:31 PM | #5 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 5
| I see there is another place for photos, but will only post one more photo of Bandit here. This was two years ago (age 11). |
10-07-2014, 10:37 PM | #6 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 207
| I am so sorry to hear this! I pray that he will be ok! My baby, Peanut, passed away from CHF on December 1st of 2013 (coming up on one year in a few months). She had a stage 5 heart murmur and enlarged heart. I know your little one will be ok though, no matter what. I'll be glad to tell you what I know of our Peanut and maybe that will help. She did not go into CHF in the beginning stages of her disease and there were no symptoms of any heart problems. Nearly three years prior to her going into CHF, she went in for a routine teeth cleaning. The vet noticed a heart murmur - stage 3, so he placed her on enalapril (2.5mg) once per day. To determine her hearts size, etc. the vet also did an x-ray. We found at that time that she did have an enlarged heart also. Because of this new murmur and heart condition, we kept a check on her regularly. She would go into the vet often for checkups and blood-work due to her medication and illness. She did great on the enalapril. About a year after her diagnosis, she developed a small cough after play and during exercise. This was due to fluid build-up associated with her murmur and enlarging of the heart. So the vet placed her on Lasix, a very small dose once a day which we could increase if need be if her cough was worse on certain days. The real miracle medicine (at least that is how we feel about it) was when the vet placed Peanut on Vetmedin (Pimobendan) at the same time she put her on the Lasix. I know with much certainty that this medication gave her several additional years that she wouldn't have otherwise had once her heart worsened. She would take half a Vetmedin in the morning and the other half at night (in addition to her other two medications). Peanut lived almost 3 years from her first heart murmur diagnosis. Her staging progressed in that time period. Even up until the point of her passing away, she was always in good spirits. She played (though not as hard as she once did), she ate very well, she was always coherent and aware of her surroundings. She never suffered and if you did not know it, you would never know she was sick. She passed away three days after Thanksgiving last year. And she had a wonderful Thanksgiving with our family before she passed. The evening she passed away, she suddenly developed a very deep, continuous cough after she ate dinner and did a little routine playing with our other girls. It was the first time she had ever coughed non-stop and I knew immediately she would be leaving me soon. She did not suffer, and shortly after her cough worsened that night she passed away in my arms. I am thankful she did not suffer and I was with her. Though Peanut had CHF, she lived a very full life and I'm thankful her medication assisted in helping her feel her best. I pray that your darling does not have CHF, but if he does that does not mean he cannot live a longer life. I definitely recommend a second opinion! And please keep us posted on the results. Very best thoughts go out to you and your baby. Hugs!
__________________ Oli Cocoa Graycie Pinky "...love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation." October Peanut Last edited by Iluvalldogs; 10-07-2014 at 10:40 PM. |
10-08-2014, 10:07 AM | #7 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 5
| Iluvalldogs, Thank you for the thorough entry. It alleviates some of the urgency by knowing this disease is progressive. With Bandit being 13 I cannot expect a miracle, but like most would prefer the best case scenario where death isn't immediate, the pup is never in great discomfort, and acceptance is the final stage...basically a full life where when it is time to pass that everyone, including him, knows it and accepts it. As much as a dog can understand, that is. I now know to at least ask the vet why enalapril vs. vetmedin? Being able to expect 2-4 more years with Bandit in this existing condition is a little reassuring too, knowing if he makes it to 16-17 years, we are very fortunate. Sorry to hear about Peanut, but nice to know that up until the end your family and Peanut could still enjoy time together and played with each other right up until then. Bandit's toys (skunky, moo moo, blue fishy, turtle, chippy, baby bear...the list goes on and on) are everything to him and I know he would be very depressed if the time ever came where he doesn't get to play anymore! |
10-08-2014, 10:37 PM | #8 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 207
| You are welcome! I wasn't sure if it would help, but I thought it couldn't hurt to give you my experience with the disease. With Peanut, it most definitely was progressive and for that I am very thankful. It gave us time with her and allowed us to prepare (though one cannot ever fully be prepared) for the time when her little heart was just too tired and would eventually give out on her. Though, when she was first diagnosed years prior to her passing, I was in disbelief that she was even sick! At any rate, we had many years with her after that time and we will always be grateful for that. Peanut started the enalapril immediately following her diagnosis, she stayed on the enalapril up until she passed away. One year following her diagnosis was when the vet added the Lasix and Vetmedin in conjunction with the enalapril once her heart worsened. So she was on all three meds, but the Vetmedin is by far the best in my opinion. I would definitely ask your vet about this medicine during Bandit's next checkup. I am SO happy to know that Bandit is still acting like himself and playing! I am sure he will continue to do so! Its so funny how they love their toys, isn't it? Peanut had a few favorites too - a few fuzzy balls and a Lamb Chop toy my mother gave her. Please keep us updated on anything new with little Bandit! I know he will live a long life full of toys, love and happiness.
__________________ Oli Cocoa Graycie Pinky "...love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation." October Peanut |
10-08-2014, 10:43 PM | #9 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 207
| P.S. I LOVE little Bandit's picture! He is absolutely adorable!!!
__________________ Oli Cocoa Graycie Pinky "...love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation." October Peanut |
12-02-2014, 04:56 PM | #10 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 5
| Sorry to be so absent. I wanted to post a follow-up that Bandit's hearing has mostly returned. I thought it rather sudden, after a grooming, and suspected he might have had the equivalence to a swimmer's ear infection or a virus. He has always had allergies, but something seemed different around that time. Selfishly, I came here only when I needed some advice, but I hope in posting this that some people might decide not to give up when their Yorkie loses its hearing...considering there are other factors other than age. I believe I even read some sort of steroid might work....so don't hesitate to follow your gut since you are around your animal more than the vet is. As for the CHF, I wouldn't be surprised if that was viral related considering a healthy check-up to suddenly being stage 3. I don't think the Enalapril will be harmful if he doesn't have CHF, since it seems to regulate the blood pressure. I will let everyone know what the vet determines. If anyone else has a 'sudden' case of CHF, I will return to post if there is a reason to get another checkup sooner in the event of a misdiagnosis. Thanks much for your communication and good thoughts. To your pup's health. |
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