Bella going to the vet today for back leg lameness :-(

[ladyjane]

Villette, in a 12 year old dog, most boarded vets do not recommend surgery on patellar luxations. There are many vets who will do them, but honestly in an older pup I would consider spending the few extra dollars for the opinion of one who is boarded. We have a great one in Houston and he has advised against surgery on the older ones unless they simply cannot use the leg which is usually a torn ccl.

[ladyjane]

I should clarify the above post....

If a pup is older and has had patellar luxation, there is a higher probability of them tearing the cruciate ligament. If you do surgery to repair the LP the ligament is still in the same shape from being worn down over the years. Then, if the pup tears the ligament, you are looking at another surgery. He advises against surgery on LP for older pups mainly for that reason....

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Thanks for the tips! Thank goodness Bella is crate trained! She sleeps in her crate at night, and we also keep her in the crate when we are out of the house and she's usually asleep in the crate when we get home, so at least she's comfortable in her crate. That said, she's a very frisky puppy, so I'm not sure how happy she will be in there all the time during her recovery, but we'll try to make it as happy and comfortable an experience as possible.

Bella has not gone swimming before. I was always concerned about her getting too cold or dirty. What temperature do you recommend for bathtub water? The same temperature that I like, warm, but not scalding? My vet clinic is a full-fledged animal hospital, so I think they have physical therapy equipment, but if they don't, then surely the U of I vet clinic does, so I will get a referral if necessary.

I would look at 80-85 degree temperature. So warm for sure. I think that doing rehab is a great option for after surgery care under a qualified professional.

Bella just might get to love your bathtub My new puppy is enthralled now with our tub. She immediately runs into the bathroom after I finish my bath and proceeds to climb into the tub. She was quite proud of herself the first time she was successful. She is already weighing a lot that it isn't easy for me to pick her up

Is this the website for the hot and cold packs? If so, it is appropriately named

Bella's Hot/Cold Pain Relief Pack- relief for canine arthritis & hip dysplasia!

We do have stairs in the house, and they are carpeted, but of course Bella loves running up and down them. I may have to install a baby gate...

oops I replied in the body of the message

[gemy]

Okay mine came from canineicer.com

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

Okay mine came from canineicer.com

Oh, okay. The Canine Icer products look more specialized and are probably more suitable than the Bella product, which comes in only one configuration and has to be adjusted to fit the appropriate body part.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, and keep it coming! It's too many posts to reply to every single one, but there's a solid body of knowledge and experience there, and I (and others going through the same thing) appreciate it!

[107barney]

I didn't do Rehab with my dog who had a MPL repair at age 2. This same dog now age almost 14 has a grade IV MPL in the other leg that wasn't recommended to be repaired. Over the years when she had some lameness, the recommendation still was to see if conservative rest brought her back around. Since she has been diagnosed with liver disease, anti-inflammatory meds were not appropriate so we used rest, warm heat at times, and tramadol for any pain. She recovered each and every time. Just last year, she again was limping and I took her to a surgeon who is board certified for an opinion and he said that the benefits of the surgery at this stage in her life were clearly outweighed by the risks to her given her age and other medical concerns. I didn't have faith that she would pull through but after a good 4-6 weeks of rest she is 100% again. So I think one should proceed cautiously with surgery in an older dog for this problem. I had a discussion wih our dr at the time and he said he would have fixed her leg as a pup, but that others are divergent on that opinion. Her surgery was done by another boarded surgeon who I mentioned does over 4,000 of these a year and he said no. He may have decided differently in recent years as my friend's puppy had surgery with him. She was unable to stop limping. I think my Daisy being light and small has worked to help her with this problem.

Anyway we didn't do rehab and my friend didn't either. I did do it with my other dog who had a CCL tear and complications and I can tell you that it cost a lot. I think they bounce back a lot on their own like LJ said.

[gemy]

Yes rehab is expensive, and as always consultation with your specialists and vets is advised as to how much and what kind etc.

But I am a true believer in rehab, which is why my new gal has insurance coverage which includes many many forms of rehab.

Once you get to know the exercises and can do them well with your pup, much rehab can be done at home.

Is rehab always necessary? Well I don't know, but I do know that proper rehab can aid in healing times, and overall fitness for the dog.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

Yes rehab is expensive, and as always consultation with your specialists and vets is advised as to how much and what kind etc.

But I am a true believer in rehab, which is why my new gal has insurance coverage which includes many many forms of rehab.

Once you get to know the exercises and can do them well with your pup, much rehab can be done at home.

Is rehab always necessary? Well I don't know, but I do know that proper rehab can aid in healing times, and overall fitness for the dog.

Cost has never been a deciding factor for me. It was not recommended ... it is optional....and I chose not to. If I had insurance that was paying for it, I still would not do it. I have not found that my pups have any issues...they all get back to normal living in no time once their restrictions are lifted and they do terrific! My pups have all healed well and have not had issues...and I am talking about too many pups to count. I would have to go back and pull all of my files to give you a number, but trust me, I have a lot of experience with knee surgery.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by gemy

Yes rehab is expensive, and as always consultation with your specialists and vets is advised as to how much and what kind etc.

But I am a true believer in rehab, which is why my new gal has insurance coverage which includes many many forms of rehab.

Once you get to know the exercises and can do them well with your pup, much rehab can be done at home.

Is rehab always necessary? Well I don't know, but I do know that proper rehab can aid in healing times, and overall fitness for the dog.

It's just that in a young dog, it's not a good financial expenditure in the absence of some complication. Just my view after spending more on rehab than I did on surgery! I think a puppy with grade IV MPL should be repaired surgically and wish mine was. I would press for it today but then I was ignorant. As for overall fitness, I think that when the dog is starting with the disadvantage of disaster breeding as in the case of grade IV MPL then maybe lifetime attention to that is warranted. Not sure that means rehab.

[Janine1604]

Prayers to you and dearest Bella >3

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Janine1604

Prayers to you and dearest Bella >3

Thank you! Bella was worse yesterday evening and this morning (not walking on her bad leg), but she perked up after her bath today and started using her leg more. 19 more days to surgery.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Thank you! Bella was worse yesterday evening and this morning (not walking on her bad leg), but she perked up after her bath today and started using her leg more. 19 more days to surgery.

Poor baby...why the lengthy wait for surgery? Is she on anti inflammatories and/or pain meds?

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Poor baby...why the lengthy wait for surgery? Is she on anti inflammatories and/or pain meds?

Despite being the owner of the clinic, the surgeon is on rotation at the U of Illinois Veterinary Clinic, and performs surgery at his private practice only two days per week--hence the wait. The surgery will be two weeks from this Friday.

Bella is not on any medications for her LP at this time. She does not seem to be in any pain, not even when she's walking on her affected leg (not even a flinch), but others in this thread have noted that Yorkies can be stoic about expressing discomfort. In some respects, I'd be concerned about medicating her unnecessarily, especially with the pain meds, since they could mask issues when she is feeling extreme pain, or perhaps cause her to use her affected leg more often than she safely should. I haven't heard about anti-inflammatories being prescribed for LP prior to surgery. What is your experience with them? Would it be a mild drug like metacam, or something more hardcore like a steroid?

[107barney]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Despite being the owner of the clinic, the surgeon is on rotation at the U of Illinois Veterinary Clinic, and performs surgery at his private practice only two days per week--hence the wait. The surgery will be two weeks from this Friday.

Bella is not on any medications for her LP at this time. She does not seem to be in any pain, not even when she's walking on her affected leg (not even a flinch), but others in this thread have noted that Yorkies can be stoic about expressing discomfort. In some respects, I'd be concerned about medicating her unnecessarily, especially with the pain meds, since they could mask issues when she is feeling extreme pain, or perhaps cause her to use her affected leg more often than she safely should. I haven't heard about anti-inflammatories being prescribed for LP prior to surgery. What is your experience with them? Would it be a mild drug like metacam, or something more hardcore like a steroid?

Yes, mild drugs mostly like rimadyl or metacam as an anti-inflammatory and tramadol for pain.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Here are some words on dogs in pain and just my own opinion but it's based on years of reading about and observing canine pain, dog pack dynamics, canine instincts and behavior, etc., and years and years of working with dogs in foster and my own dogs and hundreds of vet visits with hurting dogs.

I'd give my dog half doses of pain Rx if I were very fearful of it but I'd want any baby in my guardianship not to be in pain when I knew they had it, despite how well he or she is masking the pain. But a limping dog is no doubt feeling pain or the dog would use the leg normally. Pain medicine won't mask their pain to the point they are going to injure themselves unless they are over-medicated. I hate the idea of a dog suffering simply because they won't cry out or whine or talk and tell us how they ache and hurt, which they never can do.

I hurt but still walk on my painful hip and leg when I have to - so do dogs. But I have medication to ease that pain - cannot imagine living in pain with sleep being my only outlet from it. Either pain Rx or anti-inflammatories could keep a little one far more comfortable for the next weeks and relieve the stress of pain and if far better than hurting.

All dogs are stoic to some degree and hide their discomfort to every extent possible instinctively in order to try to stay safe and keep themselves from being shunned/left behind by their pack or attacked by other animals because they are weak. That instinct often requires they needlessly suffer in domestication now that we know they feel pain but are usually masters at hiding all but sudden or shocking type pain. Dogs with traumatic amputations on one leg will still act friendly, wag their tail and even try to play once a little time has passed after the initial trauma. But sentient animals like canines hurt when they have painful medical conditions, injuries or surgery and need human intervention and help when they do.