I have had enough sick dogs in my life to know that prescription foods save lives. What many people do is fall into the trap of the marketing ploys that some of the smaller companies use to try to compete with the larger ones. All the hoopla about corn and soy in my humble opinion is just that...hoopla. I have pups at present who are on RX diets by either Hills, Purina or Royal Canin and they are all doing very well on those foods. Two had bladder stones. One of them has been on Urinary SO for a few years now and no recurrence of bladder stones (prior to that in his former home he had stones twice).
Now, if a pup has a couple of conditions often it is difficult to find an RX food that is good ... so I have opted to home cook. At present I home cook for two pups. Both diets were through consultation with a veterinary nutritionist.
As for a regular maintenance diet, I trust Hill's because they do all of the research and feeding trials. I look at the company first and ingredients second. My healthy pups are on Hill's Ideal Balance and they love it and are thriving.

I have home cooked for my dogs for the majority of their lives and I believe wholeheartedly in in. However, Rx foods have their place, and the so called ingredients we may not like (wheat, corn, soy) are very strategic in those diets for the medical condition in question. A dog with pancreatitis needs more than a low fat diet. The pancreas is stimulated by dietary fat and also by dietary protein. So cutting back the fat alone isn't sufficient. If you don't want to use the Rx diet, then a vet nutritionist (member of the ACVN) can formulate one for the medical condition.

Food
 

I agree that these prescription foods work and that is why I feed them. Thanks for the advice about home cooking. I suppose the main issue I have with the vet foods is the use of animal byproducts, that contain all of the uncertain leftovers after the meat is removed, such as bone, feathers etc. Most people who home cook for sick dogs seem to use such known meats as skinless chicken breast, rice, veggies and supplements etc. I may be wrong but I have not seen the use of byproducts reported here, except perhaps in a limited way by raw feeders.
As for corn and grains, some do report that they can cause allergies. But if that is the case, then I guess one has to home cook a 'prescription' diet. We all have opinions as to what constitutes 'good food' for our dogs and we try and research the subject and do the best for them. But for me I go with the vet food for a sick dog when advised by my vets. Pancreatitis is a scary disease and I will do whatever it takes to treat my dog and try to prevent further attacks. Luckily my boy loves the food!

A good read from PetDiets - VNC putting your pet's health first .. for more than 20 yrs!

This is written by Dr. Remillard and here is her resume: http://petdiets.com/userfiles/files/...bbrev%20CV.pdf

Question:

I have really enjoyed your website; I think you've done an excellent job of debunking a lot of the misconceptions about commercial pet foods, raw feeding, etc. However, I am having an extremely difficult time coming to grips with some of the things that you have said. I realize that your expertise in this area is far greater than mine, but there are some things that just don't make sense to me. For example, why do you place so much emphasis on AAFCO testing? There are some truly horrible foods on the market that have been AAFCO tested. Kibbles 'n' Bits come to mind. As I understand it, AAFCO tests are only conducted for six months and not all the animals that began the trial need to survive in order for the food to "pass." We don't know the breed or age of the animals tested, so how can I determine if a food is good for my dog based on the AAFCO statement?

You state that ingredients do not matter, and that the nutritional profile is what counts. I can understand that - sort of. There is nothing that makes lamb inherently superior to chicken or beef as a protein source. All can be good protein sources for a dog or a cat. However, isn't a meat-based protein superior to a plant-based protein like soybean? Isn't the real reason that soybean is used in pet foods is not because it is a great protein source but because it is cheap? Soy is a lot less digestible than most meat sources of protein, is it not?

Is it your position that it does not matter whatsoever if a dog is fed a grocery store brand like Pedigree or Purina Dog Chow, or if a premium brand like Science Diet or Eukanuba? Which would you typically recommend for a healthy adult dog - Dog Chow or Science Diet? And why? Both have been AAFCO tested and are supposedly nutritionally complete. What's the difference between these foods, other than price?

When I look at the ingredients labels of foods like Innova or Canidae, I know exactly what is in those foods. When I look at the ingredients label of Science Diet, I see a lot of grains, soy, meat by-products, and chemical preservatives. Yet I am sure you would recommend Science Diet over either Innova or Canidae. And with all due respect, that just seems to defy common sense. How can you say that ingredients do not matter? Don't higher-quality ingredients result in a better-quality food?

I suppose you must think that I am being duped by marketing hype, but I honestly feel more comfortable feeding my dogs foods made by smaller companies who are committed to using higher-quality ingredients, and I don't mind paying a bit more for that. I don't care about AAFCO testing, as long as MY dogs are doing well on a food. I don't feel comfortable feeding anything made by Hill's, Purina, Waltham, or Iams. What am I missing?

I am not trying to be argumentative; I truly do respect your opinions. But I am really confused. Were you general practitioner veterinarians, I would probably dismiss some of what you say as the result of inadequate education about nutrition in vet school. But clearly that is not the case. But there is something fundamental in your philosophy that I just don't get. Could you please explain it to me? Thank you in advance for your time.

--------------------- Answer :

Yes, many but not all foods have passed AAFCO feeding trials. Yes the test is 6 months long (which is longer than most of my client feed any one product), and yes we only know they are adults and any breed can be used. But I'll take that over a product that has not been tested and has some melodious sounding ingredients concocted by some marketing guru. It may interest you to know that there are foods that fail the AAFCO feeding tests. My point is simply, "any product having passed an AAFCO feeding trial is worthy of being tested on your dog if you are looking for another product." Not all foods that have passed are the same. If you choose to feed a dog food that has not been AAFCO tested, then you are doing the testing which is fine as long as you realize that the company has taken to "cheaper" route.

Sorry. The ingredients list cannot and should not be used to assess the quality of a dog food. Please disregard the self proclaiming pundits who say you can. It simply cannot be done. In fact AAFCO and FDA guard against it. Soybean happens to be an excellent protein source for dogs. The amino acid profile is similar to that required by the dog, it carries with it some fats, starches and minerals. It is one of the few plant sources that actually contribute calcium to the diet. In general, egg is better than red meat is better than white meat is better than plant material in their amino acid profile for dogs. But there are exceptions to the rule. No, soybean is not necessarily the cheapest. Check out the price of grains and compare it to corn or wheat or rice.

Common sense and simple math indicate that a grain should be the first in the ingredient list, not meat. The dog only requires ~25% protein, 10% fat and all the vitamins and minerals easily fit into another 10%. So what is there left to make up the last 55%? There are only 5 nutrients (protein, fat, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals) ????

There are some dogs that can do very well on garbage and then there are dogs that need particular ingredients in order to have a well functioning GI tract. They are all individuals. Thank god there are thousands of pet food products from which to choose.

I do have to disagree with your love of the small company. I do believe you have fallen to their very slick marketing. Small companies from a common business sense simply cannot compete with a large company on several levels of production in providing a consistently sound nutritionally complete diet. I'll give just one example.

Thank you for your compliments. There are only about 50 such veterinarians in the world that have a combined expertise of veterinary medicine and animal nutrition (about half have expertise in dogs and cats) (see American College of Veterinary Nutrition). Would it surprise you to know that only 4 pet food companies, out of several hundred, employ veterinary nutritionists? Four very large companies employ at least one and in some cases more than one. These are not people who can be bought. These are people I know very well and they would not stay where they are unless they were convinced they were making a good product. These are people who are very disturbed by the misinformation peddled to pet owners in the game of gaining market share. Not one of your “small” companies has hired a veterinary nutritionist. Why not?

Zoey
 

Hi.
Thinking about you and wondering how little Zoey is doing, hope she is getting over her P attack and able to eat again.

Thanks for asking about Zoey. I didn't get to the vet yesterday. I have respiratory problems and sometimes I don't have the energy to get much done. I plan to go today and tell them Zoey will not eat the Royal Canin. I have been mixing it with the boiled rice and she would eat it. This morning I gave her straight RC and she will not eat it. She has always been such a good eater so this is weird to me. She has not pooped since the diarrhea Sunday afternoon. She is hungry. I hate this.

Just a thought here about the 6 months testing on dog food - would it interest you to know that when breast implants were implanted into dogs for testing, they also only had to show how the dogs were doing at the 6 month time period, after which many died.:mad: The testing up to the 6 months was the only thing that was public knowledge, not after that!!! So many laymen thought they were safe... when in deed they are very poisonous and have caused many women a myriad of health problems and many have died.:( My point here is that 6 months is surely too short a period of time to show whether a dog food is safe IMHO.

So sorry to hear that Zoey isn't eating or pooping:( I can offer no advice here, but am sending you and Zoey positive thoughts from the north of you. Also hoping that you will have a better day today.

Zoey
 

Thanks so much for replying, I did not mean to hassle you though. I am sorry you are still feeling sick too, it is hard to have the worry of a sick dog on top of that. Posting on the computer is not always the first thing on one's mind when we have other pressing issues! As it has been quite a while and she is hungry and eating bland food it is likely she is improving and not getting worse, and that is good news. Most dogs strangely LOVE the ID canned food and mine even loves the ID kibble too! So I wonder why Zoey does not eat it? Perhaps she likes the chicken better! Hopefully the vet will clarify things and help you. I would be interested to know what the initial Lab cPL and Lipase numbers were as they give a better idea of the severity of the P attack. There is also a 'Snap cPL' test that the vet can do to see how the disease is progressing, or hopefully improving. But it may be early days for that check. Sorry if I am saying what you already know, but I have just been there and it is very fresh in my mind. Ugh! Perhaps she is not pooping as she is not eating enough fiber? At least the diarrhea has stopped. We have to look for glimmers of light to cheer us up here!
I can't remember if you have insurance, but mine pays 50% of Prescription food!
Good luck with the vet visit and praying you and Zoey are feeling better soon.

You are not bothering me at all. I just have to do things on my own time line. I have really damaged lungs due to having pneumonia two years in a row back in 1991/2. With recurring infections I am on antibiotics a lot. They make me sick and I just don't get done everything I need to do everyday. This Friday I will be getting a PICC line put in (IV delivering antibiotics straight into my heart) and will start to feel better and be able to get things done. Enough of me - Zoey is my main concern right now. I need to get started now as I do feel better in the mornings than later in the day. I'll post when I get some info from the vet. Also, yes, I have insurance and need to get the form to the vet.

You!
 

OMG, that IS SICK!!! I can't imagine how you go on with all that to deal with and the dog and home. Must take some energy and will to get up and go each morning. Praying that the PICC line will be better able to get the AB to where it is needed and that you DO feel better after then.
Hopefully the vet visit will ease your concerns about Zoey and that she will feel good again soon. Glad you have insurance then at least you don't have financial burdens as well. Prayers for Friday!

brain ache on this thread too....uggghhhhhh

Anyway, OP there is some super good information here. Thanks Ladyjane for sharing that information, I have printed that. We are so lucky here to be able to get information as valuable.

OP as far as the food she isn't eating....how about adding a bit of water to it and slightly warming it up? Set it aside for a couple mins and gradually stop adding the rice. I've had vomiting issues with Mini for years...I assure you these pups will not suicide by starvation, I think we worry sometimes more than they do, it drives me crazy when they don't eat too. Make sure fresh water is available and let her be the guide. I'd offer her a warm plate of food a few times a day. I find the smell and and the texture of the food changes when warmed and seems more appealing.

Beats no testing at all which is what most companies do...nothing.

Point well taken.

Lynzy
 

What is causing your 'brain ache'? If it is due to my posts I am sorry and and I will not post here anymore. (I say this as your comment came after my series of posts with Cherie) If it is others perhaps they can moderate what they say so as not to stress you.