Charlie is hurt.

[Christinee]

Also, I asked the vet if it was possible to pop it back into place and he said no because it was past that point that it could just be popped into place and would need surgery.

I will call today and ask him to explain it to me again to make sure I understood what he was saying and put it here to see if it makes sense to any of you.

[Maximo]

I agree with going to a board certified orthopedic specialist first and foremost for Charlie's sake. Secondly, I think you will probably save money in the long run by going to the specialist now.

Yes, your vet should give you the xrays to take to the specialist.

[Christinee]

Another thing that is interesting is that he is not limping at all. He's not quick to jump up on stuff like normal, but he's not limping. This morning instead of jumping on the bed to wake me up to go outside, he whimpered at the side of the bed by me. He does that occasionally anyway, but I think today he just didn't want to jump up there. But he's barking at people walking by that are outside walking by which tells me he's feeling much better. (I love when he plays guard dog. It is always so cute. lol)

I am going to take a video of him walking so I can post it. He isn't limping. Maybe not running around but not limping. I just want my spunky Charlie back to normal 100%. I will do what I need to do for that.

[Yorkiemom1]

You vet should have no issue giving you the xrays for a specialist to look at...I was thinking (hoping!) he was doing the xrays under sedation so that if it was a dislocated knee or hip, it could be manipulated back into position.....that was apparently not his purpose and no it is NOT routine to sedate pups for xrays unless they are unmanagable and it would be necessary to get the xrays done properly. I would advise an ortho specialist for treatment of this issue.

[lillymae]

I can't say as I was not there BUT it sounds as if he didn't really try to put it back in. Also the answer to your x-ray question is YES, you have the rite to have copies of any & all pics taken of yourself OR your pup. I would get a copy of the x-ray/s and take them to an orthopedic specialist ASAP. Chances are that the ortho may want to take his/her own pics as the vet's pics are not usually the rite angle for the ortho BUT you still need to take them anyway. Also IF your vet is offended in any way by your request, you need to find a new vet.
This is your baby who can't speak for himself so you have to do it for him.

[Christinee]

He definitely wasn't unmanageable. He was very cooperative from what I seen so if its not normal to sedate them unless they are then I am now wondering why he did that. I've been to him before. i like that place over any others around here. I even sent my mom there and she likes him too. He is always very reasonable and seems like he cares about both the pet and our pocket books. I have felt he was trying to just do stuff to get the money out of my pocket. I will definitely see a specialist though. Especially since he's not limping. You would think he would be at least limping.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Christinee

He definitely wasn't unmanageable. He was very cooperative from what I seen so if its not normal to sedate them unless they are then I am now wondering why he did that. I've been to him before. i like that place over any others around here. I even sent my mom there and she likes him too. He is always very reasonable and seems like he cares about both the pet and our pocket books. I have felt he was trying to just do stuff to get the money out of my pocket. I will definitely see a specialist though. Especially since he's not limping. You would think he would be at least limping.

I love our regular vet, but I would definitely take any ortho problem to the specialist.

Regarding the sedation:

When I took Max to the ER because I thought he was choking, the vet examined his throat and determined it was an irritation (which our regular vet confirmed the next day). He said he could do an xray if I wanted it, but he would have to sedate Max -- who was very cooperative with everything, definitely not unmanageable. Then the doctor said he wanted to weigh Max in the back room. They were gone a fairly long time and I suspect they took took a quick xray.

I learned here that sedation is not typical for xrays, but who knows why some vets would prefer it.

[OwnedByJezebel]

Christinee, the following is what Jezebel went through. They can get an injury and then seem to get better. Is it something that will heal with time or will it require surgery? The only way to know for sure is to seek the advice of an expert.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4239121-post11.html

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Christinee

Also, I asked the vet if it was possible to pop it back into place and he said no because it was past that point that it could just be popped into place and would need surgery.

I will call today and ask him to explain it to me again to make sure I understood what he was saying and put it here to see if it makes sense to any of you.

So that tells me that he probably has a Grade 4 luxated patella. That may or may not be the cause of his issue. I would think not. I wonder if he could have torn his cruciate ligament??
----------------
Here is a link that explains the grading:

01 Medial Luxating Patella - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

Grade I: The kneecap can be moved out of place manually but will fall back into its natural position once the manipulator lets go.

Grade 2: Same thing except that the kneecap does not move back to its normal position when the manipulator lets go. These dogs are likely to progress to arthritis development and should be considered for surgery to prevent conformational damage. There is some controversy over whether grade 2 dogs should have surgery.

Grade 3: The patella is out of place all the time but can be manipulated back into its normal position manually (though it will not stay there).

Grade 4: The patella is not only out of place all the time but cannot even be manipulated back into place by hand. Such a dog has extreme difficulty extending his knees and walks with his knees bent virtually all the time.

----------------------------------------
I have a pup with Grade 4 LP and surgery was not suggested as he is older. Don't know how old Charlie is and I am not saying older pups are not operated on....just thinking a specialist is definitely in order.

I think the point is that it is not likely that he would have the pain he is having due to LP and again I recommend another opinion by a board certified surgeon who specializes in orthopedics. I especially would not let him operate if it is a possible torn ligament!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Christinee

Ok now I don't know what to do. I have read that it is normal to sedate for x-rays. But as for the surgery now I'm contused. I want him back to normal asap. He doesn't seem to be in a lot of pain but he's not totally himself either. I don't have money to be jumping from vet to vet. I don't know what to do now. I'm thinking on it. Any other advise is of coarse welcome.

I wonder if the vet would give me copies of the x-rays. What do you guys think? Is that reasonable for me to ask?

Going to a specialist is not jumping from vet to vet! It is asking for a second opinion....I do it often either at my request or the request of my vet. She would never do a surgery that was outside of her area of expertise and has no problem with me taking my pups to specialist.

Your vet should happily give you the xrays AND make the referral to the specialist for you!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I agree with going to a board certified orthopedic specialist first and foremost for Charlie's sake. Secondly, I think you will probably save money in the long run by going to the specialist now.

Yes, your vet should give you the xrays to take to the specialist.

Totally agree because I think it is highly likely surgery may not be in order. It sounds like a pretty typical LP to me if he is doing better.

The appointment might cost $100 - $150 , but if it saves the pup from surgery and mom from the bill it is worth it. Of course it is also possible it could be that surgery is indicated, but at least then you will know for sure!

[dottiesyrky]

I agree with LJ above. The specialist needs to tell you exactly what the diagnosis is and what options you have. Perhaps this vet is not too familiar with the leg anatomy and issues with small dogs. Luxating patellas are fairly common in Yorkies and if the ligaments are torn it adds to the problem. Please see a specialist and you will then know what you are dealing with and whether surgery is necessary or not. Sorry to hear about poor Charlie and pray he is diagnosed and healed soon.
As for the sedation, it may just have been a mild, Valium like, sedation just to keep him very still. This is important if detail in the anatomy is to be seen clearly. I know my vet was going to mildly sedate for a dental once. No big deal, for him any way.

[Christinee]

Thank you everyone. I am going to take all your advice and see a specialist. I want him to feel better asap. He's sleeping a lot, probably due to meds. I hate to see that. He's usually so active.

[ldcox29]

Originally Posted by OwnedByJezebel

If I were you, I would get a second opinion from a specialist.

I'm not anti-surgery, one of mine had surgery to fix a luxating patella and a torn CCL in February. I would not let just any vet do that surgery.

You can find a board certified surgeon here: https://online.acvs.org/acvsssa/rfls...VENDOR_TY=VETS

That's a great link.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Christinee

Thank you everyone. I am going to take all your advice and see a specialist. I want him to feel better asap. He's sleeping a lot, probably due to meds. I hate to see that. He's usually so active.

I think you will be very happy you did this! You will leave knowing just what is going on. BUT...to be sure of that, take a pad and pen and take notes. Often we get overwhelmed in doctors' and vets' offices. If you can, take someone else along. Four ears hear more than two!

What meds is he taking?