Cassie is in trouble

[Teresa Ford]

I have followed this thread, but have no medical advice to give. Just know Several of us are praying for Callie. I agree that a happy life is better than a long sad life.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Any vet who would write something like that and not put it in terms a person would likely understand is a vet I would not listen to.

It all has to do with her condition deteriorating neurologically. Proprioception is an understanding of where she is in space so to speak and their movements are not normal. The others...I am sure you could find on Google. But...honestly, that guy is offensive if you ask me.

I TOTALLY agree with you about him being offensive. Absolutely. Still, I would like to know the meaning of the terms so that I can follow Cassie and make sure she doesn't have any worsening symptoms. Just for my knowledge. I really couldn't find a clear simple explanation for these terms...and i've been looking for hours. Oh there are some explanations, but i don't understand them.

Does any body know for instance what extensor postural thrust is?

[ladyjane]

These are terms that a neurologist would use when examining a dog. Here is a link that will explain some of it....trust me, you will know if her symptoms become worse.

Textbook of Small Animal Surgery - Google Books

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by broodizt

I TOTALLY agree with you about him being offensive. Absolutely. Still, I would like to know the meaning of the terms so that I can follow Cassie and make sure she doesn't have any worsening symptoms. Just for my knowledge. I really couldn't find a clear simple explanation for these terms...and i've been looking for hours. Oh there are some explanations, but i don't understand them.

Does any body know for instance what extensor postural thrust is?

That is a term that a vet would use.....it is not something an owner would just happen to see. It is what happens during an exam.

Methods of Tissue Engineering - Anthony Atala - Google Books

[ladyjane]

What to look for: changes in her walking, changes in the way she holds her head....severe neck pain.

Those things you should definitely watch. I suggest that you call the neurologist office that you went to and ask them for things that you should watch for.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

What to look for: changes in her walking, changes in the way she holds her head....severe neck pain.

Those things you should definitely watch. I suggest that you call the neurologist office that you went to and ask them for things that you should watch for.

Thank YOU!!!
You have been about a BILLION times more helpful than that Vet.
I am very grateful, and thanks once again, I was thinking about calling back and talking to Dr. Stevenson about what to watch for. Still haven't been leaving the girls together on a regular basis. Have been trying them out for an hour or so during the day to see how they act and see if I can correct Muffins behavior if she gets to rough.

[kjc]

Here is a link to videos showing the tests done: Do not do these tests yourself on her. She may already exhibit some symptoms, ie: abnormal gait, but you need to look at her and establish what is/has been 'normal' for her, now, so that in the future you can see any changes to her 'normal', and discuss any changes with your neuro.

Again, do not do these tests yourself.

Some things to look for may be if she stands square normally, then one day you notice she is standing with her back legs close together or crossed. Or if she begins to trip alot, or more often than normal (for her). It may seem like little things, just be aware of repeating changes. Another thing would be abrasions on the top or tops of her feet, or dragging a foot before placing it in the correct position for standind or taking a step. Considering her gait, if her leg movements look out of sync, or disordered: both legs on one side move at the same time, instead of right front and left rear.

I want to stress: find what is normal for her... make note of any changes to discuss with your neurologist.

extensor postural thrust

neuroExam

Basically, when a dog is lifted then lowered to the floor, he will sense the floor and stretch his hind legs a bit to reach for it.

placing

neuroExam

neuroExam

Dog is positioned so when it sees the table it will place it's front foot on it, and when the front foot touches the table, the dog lifts it's foot and places it on the table.

wheelbarrowing

neuroExam

Basically a test for balance and corrective/compensating actions of the dog.


conscious proprioception

neuroExam

Tests the dog for awareness of foot positions. In humans, the Drunk Driver test of closing one's eyes and touching one's nose is a similar test.

[kjc]

The links all go to the beginning... scroll down and click on 'Begin Program', then in the lower right hand corner there will be a menu under 'Exam Steps'. Look under 'Postural Reactions'.

Originally Posted by kjc

Here is a link to videos showing the tests done: Do not do these tests yourself on her. She may already exhibit some symptoms, ie: abnormal gait, but you need to look at her and establish what is/has been 'normal' for her, now, so that in the future you can see any changes to her 'normal', and discuss any changes with your neuro.

Again, do not do these tests yourself.

Some things to look for may be if she stands square normally, then one day you notice she is standing with her back legs close together or crossed. Or if she begins to trip alot, or more often than normal (for her). It may seem like little things, just be aware of repeating changes. Another thing would be abrasions on the top or tops of her feet, or dragging a foot before placing it in the correct position for standind or taking a step. Considering her gait, if her leg movements look out of sync, or disordered: both legs on one side move at the same time, instead of right front and left rear.

I want to stress: find what is normal for her... make note of any changes to discuss with your neurologist.

extensor postural thrust

neuroExam

Basically, when a dog is lifted then lowered to the floor, he will sense the floor and stretch his hind legs a bit to reach for it.

placing

neuroExam

neuroExam

Dog is positioned so when it sees the table it will place it's front foot on it, and when the front foot touches the table, the dog lifts it's foot and places it on the table.

wheelbarrowing

neuroExam

Basically a test for balance and corrective/compensating actions of the dog.


conscious proprioception

neuroExam

Tests the dog for awareness of foot positions. In humans, the Drunk Driver test of closing one's eyes and touching one's nose is a similar test.

[broodizt]

Thank you so much kjc
This helps a lot

[kjc]

You're very welcome!

[4Scrappy]

Originally Posted by broodizt

I am crying as I read your post, crying and crying and crying. I don't know why. Thank you for your words

I'm sorry to make you cry. I know why you are crying though. No explanation needed. As I was reading other posts about what to watch for, I remembered our Alice (RIP) had a problem with her spine that we found accidentally when she had an X-ray due to her walking on 3 legs all of a sudden. Her abnormality was that her spine was crooked, shaped like the letter C. The vet gave us some meds that worked and we gave them to her judiciously on and off for a while. She got better right away but had episodes from time to time throughout her life. When we talked with the vet, an older man with a real nice "dog-bedside" manner, he said if you just look at the X-ray, you want to cry. But when you look at the dog and see how she adjusted and lived her life as normal as she could, you had to smile. Alice had gotten bad at the end. Falling over and not putting her front paw on the ground properly. It had a name I forgot it. When we brought her in for the kidney symptoms, the young vet thought at first it could be neurological because of the way she held her head and put her front feet down. I'm sorry I'm not describing it better. I'm trying to say that sometimes the dog will adjust in ways a human never could. As someone else said, you have to see what is normal for her. Alice was never "normal" but we knew what was normal for her. The falling at the end and not being able to get up did not seem to hurt her but she would look up at us with this expression of sadness, like "pick me up already!" Her problems were not life threatening but chances are if the kidney failure had not occurred when she was 13, something neurological would probably have been her end. I hope Cassie surprises everyone. Since she has gotten along for five years with this, there is a good chance she can have another five years of life, or more. Oh, and those "Ask" things on the internet are just a money-making scam to get money from people in desperate situations, IMO. I was going through something a few years ago and paid to get an answer but it was just bee ess. I was out the money and made a mental note not to fall for that again. I'm sorry you got those terribly complex answers from the supposed vet online. He or she was obviously hoping for more business, thinking you would pay more to get your answer explained. What a complete jerk! Taking advantage of a Yorkie Mommy who is trying to help her baby. You keep loving her and she'll do whatever is in her power to be a happy Yorkie for as long as possible. All you can do is take care of her, as you are doing. Keep us updated on Cassie's progress. She is in my prayers.

[kjc]

I used an 'Ask the Vet' site once, but the vet was able to answer my question... it was just something I couldn't wrap my brain around and I needed an answer. My vets gave a more general answer, but I still had that question that bothered me. So, yes, it was well worth it to me to have an answer. I don't feel ripped off or scammed at all.

I think you got a good answer... yes it could have been presented differently, but actually those terms will now be a part of your vocabulary. I know the basics of a neuro exam, but never knew what the actual tests were called. When I saw the videos I linked here, I knew what the vets were doing bc I've seen them done many times before. I hope they were easy to understand... sometimes it's a bit hard for me to judge bc we don't know what experiences others have had. Being totally unfamiliar with a topic is like trying to swim when you've never seen a pool.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Just checking on Callie to see how she is doing. Sounds like your online vet is still wet behind the ears. How are you dealing? Are you sleeping?

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by kjc

The links all go to the beginning... scroll down and click on 'Begin Program', then in the lower right hand corner there will be a menu under 'Exam Steps'. Look under 'Postural Reactions'.

I've been looking at the movies and it is so clear when you see it. I'm very thankful for this. Thanks so much again.
Shellie

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Just checking on Callie to see how she is doing. Sounds like your online vet is still wet behind the ears. How are you dealing? Are you sleeping?

Thanks so much for asking. Actually, she seems to be doing quite well, but I am still not leaving Muffin and Cassie alone together as Muffin seems to be running circles around Cassie trying to get her to play, and when Cassie does not feel like playing Muffin tends to want to ram into her. I'm still trying to figure out how to get Muffin to be more gentle with Cassie. She is just being playful, but she could kill her if she rams into her, so for the meantime, they are both still alone and in their own rooms. Both are still lonely and not happy, so I am trying to figure out how to train Muffin to be better with Cassie. I must admit, I am lousy at training, I've tried so many times, and it's just not one of my strengths. But I will keep trying. As for sleeping, thanks for asking. I'm sleeping very very poorly. Cassie sleeps in my room with me where I keep her most of the time when I am not with her, with the door closed so she will rest comfortably on her bed, which she usually does, but at night she barks and barks and wants to sleep with me in my bed, so I pick her up and hold her and sleep either in a chair, or in my bed sitting up because I'm afraid I will either roll over on her when I am asleep, or she will pee on my bed (she's done this before and I had to get a new mattress as she is not fully trained and actually never has been. So sleep is poor. Hoping to improve some day.
Blessings to you
Shellie