Question about LucyBelle's Spay...

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

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Of course, dogs feel pain...but some pain is necessary to prevent further injury...when something hurts the dog will lay down and rest...given meds it feels no pain and can do so much more harm...broken legs are a good example...I wanted pain meds for one of mine who broke a leg...vet refused...last thing he wanted was for the dog to feel no discomfort and run on the leg for a few days...

Simple solution: Crate them! They should never be allowed access to run after a fractured leg.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Pajama Mama

Hi...

LucyBelle is home from her surgery today. The vet used staples instead of stitches. They look so big on her little tummy. They didn't send any pain medicine home with us nor a cone. I asked about her licking the incision and they said not to worry. I asked three times about wearing something and they said no need. That's not what I've read from yorkie experts here!!

Should I go ahead an put a onesie on her anyway...or wait to see if she's messing with the incision??

Jeannie

I have to agree that I would be insisting on pain medication. I would expect no less as a standard of veterinary care! My Daisy had a fractured tooth -- something that caused her no pain whatsoever but needed to be surgically removed -- and she was sent home with 4 days of pain medication. It hurts to have your body sliced open and sutures or staples placed and no one should be in pain with the good and safe medications available.

[YorkieRose]

Yes..we will agree to disagree...I lost a bitch once after pain meds were adminstered after a dental, her BP went very low and she went into shock before the vet could do anything..BUT that was a long time ago and things were not the same..Yorkies scare me with the things I have seen them react to...so innocent a thing and a dead dog...
We used to beg vets not to give lepto..no one listened, people lost puppies...finally we as breeders had to take a stand and refuse..now it rarely happens...

There are many times I would insist on pain meds..but for a simple spay or dental I would not..and this is because any time I am given pain meds the bottle says...take as needed...if Pinkie is running through the house, jumping in and out of her bed..the vet and I determine pain meds are not needed...

AND...you must remember, people my age did not grow up in an era where no one is expected to feel any pain whatsoever, no matter how minor...I thank God for help for pain when needed, but will save it for when needed...

[107barney]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Yes..we will agree to disagree...I lost a bitch once after pain meds were adminstered after a dental, her BP went very low and she went into shock before the vet could do anything..BUT that was a long time ago and things were not the same..Yorkies scare me with the things I have seen them react to...so innocent a thing and a dead dog...
We used to beg vets not to give lepto..no one listened, people lost puppies...finally we as breeders had to take a stand and refuse..now it rarely happens...

There are many times I would insist on pain meds..but for a simple spay or dental I would not..and this is because any time I am given pain meds the bottle says...take as needed...if Pinkie is running through the house, jumping in and out of her bed..the vet and I determine pain meds are not needed...

AND...you must remember, people my age did not grow up in an era where no one is expected to feel any pain whatsoever, no matter how minor...I thank God for help for pain when needed, but will save it for when needed...

Well dogs cannot make that decision for themselves even though we can. That to me is the major difference and why I would err on the side of medicating my dogs after surgery. I also think pain is best managed, and doctors and vets agree with this, when you keep ahead of the pain and not wait for it to be agonizing.

I'm not sure how old you are but my grandma was 91 when she died and she took medications for pain for as long as I can remember. In our family, we dont suffer when a little pill can fix us up but we are not pill abusers either. In fact, I hardly EVER taken any medication because I don't do well with it.

I will agree to disagree and I do so respectfully but I'm having a real hard time wrapping my 40-year-old brain around this one.

[YorkieRose]

So what you are saying is...I should have given Pinkie pain meds...when she was showing no reaction to her spay..and I know my Pinkie..the day before the unexpected spay, she came to me and the look in her eyes was NOT right, the eyes of my Yorkies are a dead give away ..they talk to me...discomfort is different then pain IMO...? Pinkie saw me after the spaying and that look of pain was gone...she was happy and her eyes talked to me...I know I am crazy...but my Yorkies have been trained to come to me and look me in the eye when something is wrong..then I have to go down the list to figure it out...the vet believes me how when I say something is wrong..FIND IT!!!
The vet and I had no idea what inside Pinkie was hurting, but she told me and the surgery was done asap

I am VERY much in favor of pain meds for real pain, but think where we differ is, what is pain and what is uncomfortable? I do not need pain meds for a root canal, but for a cleaning I have to be "lightly" sedated...it is so awful I vomit after if not...but a root canal has never bothered me afterward....and that is why I will not let my Yorkies have their teeth cleaned awake...

I want meds for my Yorkies, you bet..inverted knee surgery for a 12 week old..serious meds...novaicain pain drops in an eye with a torn cornea, needed surgery...used pain meds every day for a week, you bet...pain spray for a hot spot..YES!!! I had a girl who got two on her face one hot summer and they are so very painful...people do not believe a small sore can be so painful...but even the vet sedates them to clean it.

AND the word you posted that hit home to me is...suffer...suffering and discomfort are different to me..
I remember the day I stopped giving pain meds after a dental was when I started to give the Yorkie a pill, but had to pulll the chewy bone out of its mouth...how can a dog chew on a raw hide and be in pain...???

When I see that look..we go to the vet...

[107barney]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

So what you are saying is...I should have given Pinkie pain meds...when she was showing no reaction to her spay..and I know my Pinkie..the day before the unexpected spay, she came to me and the look in her eyes was NOT right, the eyes of my Yorkies are a dead give away ..they talk to me...discomfort is different then pain IMO...? Pinkie saw me after the spaying and that look of pain was gone...she was happy and her eyes talked to me...I know I am crazy...but my Yorkies have been trained to come to me and look me in the eye when something is wrong..then I have to go down the list to figure it out...the vet believes me how when I say something is wrong..FIND IT!!!
The vet and I had no idea what inside Pinkie was hurting, but she told me and the surgery was done asap

I am VERY much in favor of pain meds for real pain, but think where we differ is, what is pain and what is uncomfortable? I do not need pain meds for a root canal, but for a cleaning I have to be "lightly" sedated...it is so awful I vomit after if not...but a root canal has never bothered me afterward....and that is why I will not let my Yorkies have their teeth cleaned awake...

I want meds for my Yorkies, you bet..inverted knee surgery for a 12 week old..serious meds...novaicain pain drops in an eye with a torn cornea, needed surgery...used pain meds every day for a week, you bet...pain spray for a hot spot..YES!!! I had a girl who got two on her face one hot summer and they are so very painful...people do not believe a small sore can be so painful...but even the vet sedates them to clean it.

AND the word you posted that hit home to me is...suffer...suffering and discomfort are different to me..
I remember the day I stopped giving pain meds after a dental was when I started to give the Yorkie a pill, but had to pulll the chewy bone out of its mouth...how can a dog chew on a raw hide and be in pain...???

When I see that look..we go to the vet...

I am saying that I believe that people and animals should be comfortable at all times. This would medication after surgery for optimal comfort and for pain management even if we perceive that the animal is "fine."

[yorkietalkjilly]

AND the word you posted that hit home to me is...suffer...suffering and discomfort are different to me..
I remember the day I stopped giving pain meds after a dental was when I started to give the Yorkie a pill, but had to pulll the chewy bone out of its mouth...how can a dog chew on a raw hide and be in pain...???

When I see that look..we go to the vet...[/QUOTE]
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It could be that dogs are like us and behave quite normally at times even though they are suffering. I, for instance, have a medical condition which is causing severe pain right now but as a way of dealing with the acute pain I am suffering, I have taken my pain medication and am working on a medical insurance appeal and surfing this site. Dogs seem to have that same ability of being able to go right on suffering through serious pain just as we do with one difference - we can elect to opt out of some of the pain and take our medication when we're really suffering.

[YorkieRose]

Althought, my Kate had to be taught the difference between "Unhappy" and "distress"...I put off an appt once because she was in my face and staring me down...only to find out Becca was in her BED...we had a good talk about that one...now she comes, sits and cocks her head for a minor complain..more serious stuff gets a digging at me leg...ER stuff is all out barking in my face...

On another note...
Is there anyone here who believes in a medical intuit for human/dogs...I have been blessed with a gift to know when something is wrong...would never depend on it, but it gives me such great insight...

My daughter was ok, fine and nothing wrong...I told her she must go to the OB/GYN asap...she had precancous cells...6 mos before she did not...I knew it as sure as I knew my name..and the Dr said to thank you mother for her insight...

It used to happen all the time when I groomed...I would insist the dog see the vet and many times I could pin point the problem...my vet used to call me to come in, look at a dog and see if I got any insight about a problem..sometimes yes, sometimes no...
OK..you can call the men in white coats now...I used to be ashamed of this gift, but not anymore...although it is hard when I meet a stranger and you can see the health problem...I remain quiet...haven't learned to deal with it...

[Baroness]

Holy moly...no pain meds? I'd ask for some, there is bound to be some discomfort for her and a greater urge to "lick the wound" if there is nothing blocking the feeling of it. Our dog Balance, a BIG black lab, got some cysts removed on his paws. At first they didn't think he would need pain pills (he had staples too), but it was hell on wheels trying to get him to not lick and mess with the feet. Once they gave us pain pills he hadn't a care in the world...he left the feet alone. Good luck!!

[YorkieRose]

Agreed..there are pain meds time and no pain med time for my Yorkies...

[ladyjane]

Before modern medicine, people chewed on leather ... that does not mean that they did not need the meds and/or anesthesia.
This is 2011 and we have come a long way in both human and veterinary medicine.

[Pajama Mama]

Hmmm. I'm reading what you all wrote and first of all, I'm kicking myself for not asking about pain medicine. That said, LucyBelle did really good. There WERE a couple of times when I thought she was in pain, though...by the way she was acting. Anyway, do you think our location might be a reason why no pain medicine was offered? I'm in south Georgia in a rural, farming community. Our vet sees the smallest doggies and kitties up to the biggest sheep, cows and horses. He's a hometown boy who went off to school and came back to set up practice. He knows his stuff, though...just does things a bit different. The "barbaric" description made me giggle a little bit. I will ask him about pain medicine in general when we go back for follow up next week. I'm curious to know....

That said, he spent quite a bit of time in Haiti after the earthquake helping with humanitarian relief and something to do with the animals there, as well. He has a big heart..although he did accuse me of spoiling Lucy Belle! I'm quite certain he hit the nail on the head.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Pajama Mama

Hmmm. I'm reading what you all wrote and first of all, I'm kicking myself for not asking about pain medicine. That said, LucyBelle did really good. There WERE a couple of times when I thought she was in pain, though...by the way she was acting. Anyway, do you think our location might be a reason why no pain medicine was offered? I'm in south Georgia in a rural, farming community. Our vet sees the smallest doggies and kitties up to the biggest sheep, cows and horses. He's a hometown boy who went off to school and came back to set up practice. He knows his stuff, though...just does things a bit different. The "barbaric" description made me giggle a little bit. I will ask him about pain medicine in general when we go back for follow up next week. I'm curious to know....

That said, he spent quite a bit of time in Haiti after the earthquake helping with humanitarian relief and something to do with the animals there, as well. He has a big heart..although he did accuse me of spoiling Lucy Belle! I'm quite certain he hit the nail on the head.

We're all pretty much just doing the best we can according to our understanding and here trying to learn so try not to worry too much about the past. I think you are right - it may just be that a large-animal vet is just so used to not dispensing pain medicine to farm animals that he just sort of treats them and canines all the same. I am so glad your girl's spaying is all behind her and no more heats and a much better chance not to get certain cancers, etc. It is so good once surgery is over and done! I had so dreaded my former Yorkie, Jilly, being spayed due to her small size that I put it off far too long and once it was over I was over the moon with relief. All the best to you and your little LucyBelle and hugs from us.