Barney is getting tested for Leptospirosis!

[Lisa and Pic]

Cathy, I am so very sorry to hear about Barney and sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.

[oliver44]

soo sorry to hear about barney's medical problems. you sound so loving & made the best decisions you could for your baby, after the fact it is so easy to say you should have done something. i just got back from the vet 48 hours ago & watched my little guy recover from all his shots it was very difficult, finally better today. i think due to the extreme small size of yorkies we all have to weigh our decisions more than we would with a bigger dog. my prayers are with barney & for you so you stop being so hard on yourself. bless you both

[Ringo1]

Cathy,

I am just now seeing this and hope that Barney gets good news. We all know that you are very careful to take excellent care of Barney so please don't beat yourself up.

Fingers crossed for Barney.

[viviansnickers]

Cathy!!!!

I'm so sorry!!!!!! May Barney come through 100%!!!!!!!!
HUGE hugs!!!


VIV

[kjc]

Originally Posted by 107barney

My heart is in my stomach............I just got off the phone with the board certified internal medicine veterinarian. Barney went in to have an abdominal ultrasound because of a mild but persistently elevated liver enzyme. So I wanted to make sure we did not miss anything.

I've been doing alot of research on liver issues the past two years. But I can't offer anything without knowing which enzyme is elevated, and how elevated it is.

Originally Posted by 107barney

To make a long story short, Barney's liver is showing some mild changes to the architecture which may be due to age, left over inflammation from his pancreatitis episode last year, or some unknown liver disease (cancer, copper storage deficiancy, etc). The only way to know about the liver is to do a biopsy, which I am not doing because (1) Barney is not showing clinical signs or symptoms of illness and (2) a biopsy needs to be invasive to be worthwhile and there is a risk of internal bleeding and death which is increased in a dog of his size (8.5 lbs). He will be treated with liver antioxidants, denosyl, marin and another drug I forgot the name of but will post later...it started with a "u". Pancreas looked good.

Re: #1. Do you mean he isn't acting sick? Dogs are great at hiding their illness, or even adapting to subtle, gradual changes in their overall health.

Re:#2. Usually it is common protocol to test for any bleeding disorders before 'going in' for a liver biopsy, so risk can be minimized. The liver can still function enough even if only 1/4 of it is 100%. It is also capable of total regeneration. This is the main reason Liver disease can be difficult to diagnose.

Originally Posted by 107barney

Then we get to the kidneys........and they were showing "bright" on the ultrasound. Two mildly elevated kidney values as well on blood work last month. Concern: DOES BARNEY HAVE AN INFECTION, AND IF SO, IS IT LEPTOSPIROSIS.

Just a reminder... an increased BUN can result from dehydration... again need more info if you care to share....

Originally Posted by 107barney

LEPTOSPIROSIS? WHAT??!!! This as my WORST FEAR stopping the vaccine and not taking the advice of my vet who said to vaccinate him for it. I bantered back and forth about this - NO LEPTO NO LEPTO NO LEPTO. Finally dropped the vet for persisting and annoying me with it.

Were you vaccinating every 6-8 months? If not, he was only covered for 1/2 a year anyway. (and probably for the wrong sevovars anyway)

Originally Posted by 107barney

Where did this leave me? Testing my Barney for LEPTO.

I'm sick to my stomach, I feel like throwing up.

Been there, too... but you are not at fault here. There are over 200 different sevovars of Leptospirosis. You could not possibly be vaccinating for the correct strain as it hadn't been developed yet, and if it was, and your vet was using it, there was still a 4-6 month lapse if he was only being vaccinated yearly.

Originally Posted by 107barney

As an aside and to share...........I asked the specialist "what is your opinion about the lepto vaccine especially in small breeds.."
Here was his answer, an exact quote:

"I have seen enough cases of leptospirosis in dogs we could not help to SCARE me enough to vaccinate my own dogs." One of which is a small dog around 15 lbs.

How many cases of Lepto has he seen? And how many dogs and cats has he seen the past year that didn't have Lepto?

Originally Posted by 107barney

I went further - what about reactions in toy breeds and risk.... The recommendation was to VACCINATE my dogs. His opinon: the risk of reactions in the current lepto vaccine was not any greater than any other vaccine and greatly outweighs the risk.

I agree the new vaccine is cleaner and should not cause the same reactions as the old vaccine, but it is still new, along with the 'dental' vaccine and the Giardia vaccine and the flu vaccine. Personally, I will wait to see more evidence, but then again Lepto is not as prevalent in my area, and I take special precautions to avoid contracting it.

The main issue I have is vaccinating the dogs that weigh under 7 or 8 pounds. It would be so much safer for them if all vaccines were adjusted to the size of the animal being vaccinated, instead of one a 'one size fits all' basis as is done now.

There is risk too in over-vaccinating dogs, and can happen in large breeds too. This risk can be minimized by vaccinating with only one vaccine at a time, and allowing a month inbetween vaccinations. This and similar protocols create a stronger immuno-response against each disease being vaccinated against.

Originally Posted by 107barney

I am hoping and praying to god that Barney does not have this disease becasue I will not be able to live with myself for not vaccinating them the last couple of years.

Once again I'm reminded that I do not know more than my vets and I'm just sick over this. I'm hoping in 5 days from now I do not hear that he has it.

Again, not your fault. I'm sorry that he's ill and that I can't help you because of the lack of specific details in your post. (not that I could find anything that BC specialist would have missed) It would also help to post his age and the age he was neutered, and any history and meds he's currently taking (if any).

I do have two questions: Just curious as to why the 'elevated liver enzyme' wasn't rechecked in 3 months as opposed to 6 months? Usually rechecks are every 3 months until results show a decreasing trend... unless it's considered more critical and is tested monthly...

And was it suggested to put him on a low-protein diet (if he's not on one?). And was a Urinalysis done? (bc of kidney issue)

I do understand your reluctance to share the details, but then I'm confused as to why you would ask "to be sure we did not miss anything"? With what you have posted, I don't have a clue, so all I can do is to pray for you both....

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by kjc

I agree the new vaccine is cleaner and should not cause the same reactions as the old vaccine, but it is still new, along with the 'dental' vaccine and the Giardia vaccine and the flu vaccine. Personally, I will wait to see more evidence, but then again Lepto is not as prevalent in my area, and I take special precautions to avoid contracting it.

What kind of precautions can be taken? We avoid standing water, even puddles, but my boys do go in the grass where cats, rodents, opossum, and other critters may have eliminated. The Lepto can enter through the eyes or a scraped paw. How can that be avoided?

[ladyjane]

Someone please shoot me and put me out of my misery.

[teacup0819]

Cathy....I just saw this thread and am so sorry you and Barney are going through all this. Five days seems like forever when waiting for news...hang in there....we are all with you You have always done what is best for Barney and your crew so you cannot start doubting yourself now. You are a wonderful doggie momma. Hopefully you will hear only good news from the test results.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Maximo

What kind of precautions can be taken? We avoid standing water, even puddles, but my boys do go in the grass where cats, rodents, opossum, and other critters may have eliminated. The Lepto can enter through the eyes or a scraped paw. How can that be avoided?

I avoid standing water, esp puddles, letting my pups sniff everything they want, light rains... only go out after a hard rain to wash the roads and avoid the puddles, not allowed to eat anything they find... etc.

Also in the process of training them to wear boots and shoes on wet or damp days.

In the yard, I made a section for the dogs that I can spray with a bleach solution, and alternate with vinegar (lepto prefers alkaline conditions), and I put up additional fencing to keep out most wildlife.

I don't feed the birds, bc that attracts mice and squirrels and others to the yard.

Mine are on leash all the time, except in their yard, where I watch them. Not 100%, but I try. If my pup had an open wound, he's in boots or inside till it heals. And may start testing for it yearly like heartworm...

http://www.2ndchance.info/leptospirosis.htm

[kjc]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Someone please shoot me and put me out of my misery.

Sorry! Bang bang!.gif

[kjc]

Originally Posted by kjc

I avoid standing water, esp puddles, letting my pups sniff everything they want, light rains... only go out after a hard rain to wash the roads and avoid the puddles, not allowed to eat anything they find... etc.

Also in the process of training them to wear boots and shoes on wet or damp days.

In the yard, I made a section for the dogs that I can spray with a bleach solution, and alternate with vinegar (lepto prefers alkaline conditions), and I put up additional fencing to keep out most wildlife.

I don't feed the birds, bc that attracts mice and squirrels and others to the yard.

Mine are on leash all the time, except in their yard, where I watch them. Not 100%, but I try. If my pup had an open wound, he's in boots or inside till it heals. And may start testing for it yearly like heartworm...

Leptospirosis in Dogs How They Catch It, How We Cure It, How We Prevent It

I wanted to add that in the yard I use fake owls to help keep mice. squirrels and rabbits away. And I collect shed snake skins and put them in my shed and along the fence line (make sure the snake is completely out of it first though)(if you use kingsnake shed skins, they will help keep other snakes away too) and the big blowup snakes work well too for keeping prey birds away (if they drop a dead mouse in the yard...possible problem).


Also, I have all mine on Coconut oil and just started this week on Colostrum, in addition to probiotics. Coconut oil is antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal (I use it inside and out) and Colostrum to strengthen their immune systems, and probiotics to maintain a high level of good bacteria in the gut, making it difficult for any bad bacteria to take up residence.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by kjc

I've been doing alot of research on liver issues the past two years. But I can't offer anything without knowing which enzyme is elevated, and how elevated it is.



Re: #1. Do you mean he isn't acting sick? Dogs are great at hiding their illness, or even adapting to subtle, gradual changes in their overall health.

Re:#2. Usually it is common protocol to test for any bleeding disorders before 'going in' for a liver biopsy, so risk can be minimized. The liver can still function enough even if only 1/4 of it is 100%. It is also capable of total regeneration. This is the main reason Liver disease can be difficult to diagnose.



Just a reminder... an increased BUN can result from dehydration... again need more info if you care to share....



Were you vaccinating every 6-8 months? If not, he was only covered for 1/2 a year anyway. (and probably for the wrong sevovars anyway)



Been there, too... but you are not at fault here. There are over 200 different sevovars of Leptospirosis. You could not possibly be vaccinating for the correct strain as it hadn't been developed yet, and if it was, and your vet was using it, there was still a 4-6 month lapse if he was only being vaccinated yearly.



How many cases of Lepto has he seen? And how many dogs and cats has he seen the past year that didn't have Lepto?



I agree the new vaccine is cleaner and should not cause the same reactions as the old vaccine, but it is still new, along with the 'dental' vaccine and the Giardia vaccine and the flu vaccine. Personally, I will wait to see more evidence, but then again Lepto is not as prevalent in my area, and I take special precautions to avoid contracting it.

The main issue I have is vaccinating the dogs that weigh under 7 or 8 pounds. It would be so much safer for them if all vaccines were adjusted to the size of the animal being vaccinated, instead of one a 'one size fits all' basis as is done now.

There is risk too in over-vaccinating dogs, and can happen in large breeds too. This risk can be minimized by vaccinating with only one vaccine at a time, and allowing a month inbetween vaccinations. This and similar protocols create a stronger immuno-response against each disease being vaccinated against.



Again, not your fault. I'm sorry that he's ill and that I can't help you because of the lack of specific details in your post. (not that I could find anything that BC specialist would have missed) It would also help to post his age and the age he was neutered, and any history and meds he's currently taking (if any).

I do have two questions: Just curious as to why the 'elevated liver enzyme' wasn't rechecked in 3 months as opposed to 6 months? Usually rechecks are every 3 months until results show a decreasing trend... unless it's considered more critical and is tested monthly...

And was it suggested to put him on a low-protein diet (if he's not on one?). And was a Urinalysis done? (bc of kidney issue)

I do understand your reluctance to share the details, but then I'm confused as to why you would ask "to be sure we did not miss anything"? With what you have posted, I don't have a clue, so all I can do is to pray for you both....

KJC I did share - it was the Alkaline phosphatase that was mildly but persistently elevated since Barney had pancreatitis back in March. The ALP has waffled between 300s and 400s and blood work has been taken more than every 6 months, it's been taken multiple times.

All other blood work, including BUN and including BATs has been normal. The only other abnormality in the blood work has been creatinine 1.8. The urinalyses have been normal except for dilute urine and some oxalate crystals (now gone). The persistently but mildly elevated ALP led me to the BC internist so that "we would not be missing anything" because I am not one to delay or undercut on vet care.

BTW, Barney is almost 11.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by kjc

I avoid standing water, esp puddles, letting my pups sniff everything they want, light rains... only go out after a hard rain to wash the roads and avoid the puddles, not allowed to eat anything they find... etc.

Also in the process of training them to wear boots and shoes on wet or damp days.

In the yard, I made a section for the dogs that I can spray with a bleach solution, and alternate with vinegar (lepto prefers alkaline conditions), and I put up additional fencing to keep out most wildlife.

I don't feed the birds, bc that attracts mice and squirrels and others to the yard.

Mine are on leash all the time, except in their yard, where I watch them. Not 100%, but I try. If my pup had an open wound, he's in boots or inside till it heals. And may start testing for it yearly like heartworm...

Leptospirosis in Dogs How They Catch It, How We Cure It, How We Prevent It

The test was expensive, $100 for a leptospirosis profile.
I also have an unattractive yard but squirrels do visit in the trees except when hawks are around and raccoons and skunks transverse the area regularly as do coyotes so their are tons of carriers even in our city.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by kjc

How many cases of Lepto has he seen? And how many dogs and cats has he seen the past year that didn't have Lepto?

Not sure but enough to scare him into vaccinating his own dogs as he shared with me. Cats rarely get disease due to lepto but can be carriers. Here is the CDC link on types of affected pets and such

Disease Listing, Leptospirosis and Your Pet | CDC Bacterial, Mycotic Diseases

[Sweet Apple]

I've been following your thread, w/a heavy heart for you...Having just gone through an awful month w/my Apple and illness, I know the agony of worrying over our babies! Thinking back, I always gave my big dogs the lepto shot, because they were running on the farm, in the pond (where cows poop) and drinking from creeks, etc...However, in such a protective enviornment, as my back yard, I don't give the lepto shot to my little ones...Don't be too hard on yourself, re: the shot, as chances are the risks, of the shot, do outweigh the benefits (that's what I'm thinking w/my kidz)...It might not even be lepto?...Will pray for your baby and a good prognosis...In the meantime, know that you did, exactly, what you thought was best for your baby...That's all we can do for our fur kidz, as well as our skin kids...There's only one perfect person, and it "ain't" us, so be calm, and I hope you will look to your Creator, for peace and healing for your baby...We're all standing in agreement w/u...
Hugs
Maggie