Prednizone for liver disease?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

You are saying that the Lepto vaccine causes higher elevations of liver enzymes than LS?

Where is this information?

I have never heard of such a thing, but would be interested in seeing the data to back this up so that I can discuss it with my vet. We have not had a problem with lepto in this area, but I want to be informed in case it ever happens and I need to make a decision about this vaccine for my pups.

Originally Posted by kjc

Sorry I'm so late in getting back... I couldn't find the link, I'm using a temp PC now, when I get my PC back, I think I saved it on there.

Have you found this information yet?

[kjc]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Have you found this information yet?

No, my PC is still being worked on.

[ladyjane]

Wow, it must really be messed up. I asked my vet about this and she looked at me like I had lost my mind....so I really need to have the information! I have looked and looked on the web and cannot find it.

[Ellie May]

If this is about the lepto/liver thing, I really would like to see it too. I have been wondering about this for the last couple years now after seeing something on YT about it. It seems the lepto vaccine has become much safer recently, so I wonder if this was supposed to apply to just the old one or the new one too??

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

If this is about the lepto/liver thing, I really would like to see it too. I have been wondering about this for the last couple years now after seeing something on YT about it. It seems the lepto vaccine has become much safer recently, so I wonder if this was supposed to apply to just the old one or the new one too??

KJC had said that the lepto vaccine causes liver enzymes to be higher than a liver shunt does. I honestly have never heard of that and just wondered where she read that.
My vet feels that the vaccine is ok to give, but only IF there is a possibility of exposure.
Just wanting more information.

[Becca1]

Went into talk to our vet today - will try and keep this somewhat short - we have 2 vets that I have been dealing with - one older (and not as up to date on liver issues) and one younger. I think some of my problems have existed b/c I have been dealing with both and didn't really realize until reviewing all my records that they weren't exactly in agreement as far as her diagnosis/treatment. W/o going into a lot, I opted to see our younger vet and he and I are in total agreement as to her treatment. I told him our "older" vet had recently placed Lexie on Prednisolone and that he is treating her more like having chronic hepatitis;, but that her biopsy showed the congenital portosystemic shunt. The vet, today said, that if she had chronic hepatitis, the biopsy would have shown that and it did not and that he did not feel she should be on Prednisolone (thankfully after listening to everyone on here) I totally agree. He didn't feel her last liver enzyme numbers were that out of range or enhanced since the last time and said he did not feel like she needed to be on any antibiotic at this time - I agree. We discussed her being on K/D and how well she is doing on that (she has no HE symptoms and only had those symptoms when she was orginally diagnosed, and also when she got a toxisity from the Metro); so we agreed to leave her on the K/D - he said the protein in the K/D is not enough to affect her - this is his feeling and mine, at this time - you do what works.

We discussed her vaccinations and he felt there was no reason to give them this year at all (they do a 3 year Rabies vaccine anyway and it's only been two years since this vaccine) and they do not routinely give a Lepto - he said they now give the Lepto separately, if warranted, so I was glad to hear that. Basicially he will not give her the Lepto portion in a year when he gives the Rabies.

Finally we discussed that she has not had a BAT - he said he did not really think it was warranted in the past, but that if I would like to check those numbers we certainly could and, of course, he knew this is a great indication of the liver function. We set that test for Monday.

Now, I know a lot of you out there wonder why these two vets (being in the same office) were not on the same page - but, that aside and not casting stones, I choose to go forward with my information and continue to use the younger of the two vets.

I will say that this website is so useful with information and that I would not have near as healthy a dog if I had not found this website; and the "links" contained on the Yahoo liver groups contain so much good information to at least give us "lay" people some knowlege as to the right questions to ask.

[RONLYNN]

I'm glad you have a plan and a vet that knows more. I don't know why, though, he wouldn't have your dog on LD which is clearly for Liver rather than KD which is higher in protein and is for Kidney problems. Hopefully you are able to have the surgery if you find out that the shunt is operable.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Becca1

Went into talk to our vet today - will try and keep this somewhat short - we have 2 vets that I have been dealing with - one older (and not as up to date on liver issues) and one younger. I think some of my problems have existed b/c I have been dealing with both and didn't really realize until reviewing all my records that they weren't exactly in agreement as far as her diagnosis/treatment. W/o going into a lot, I opted to see our younger vet and he and I are in total agreement as to her treatment. I told him our "older" vet had recently placed Lexie on Prednisolone and that he is treating her more like having chronic hepatitis;, but that her biopsy showed the congenital portosystemic shunt. The vet, today said, that if she had chronic hepatitis, the biopsy would have shown that and it did not and that he did not feel she should be on Prednisolone (thankfully after listening to everyone on here) I totally agree. He didn't feel her last liver enzyme numbers were that out of range or enhanced since the last time and said he did not feel like she needed to be on any antibiotic at this time - I agree. We discussed her being on K/D and how well she is doing on that (she has no HE symptoms and only had those symptoms when she was orginally diagnosed, and also when she got a toxisity from the Metro); so we agreed to leave her on the K/D - he said the protein in the K/D is not enough to affect her - this is his feeling and mine, at this time - you do what works.

We discussed her vaccinations and he felt there was no reason to give them this year at all (they do a 3 year Rabies vaccine anyway and it's only been two years since this vaccine) and they do not routinely give a Lepto - he said they now give the Lepto separately, if warranted, so I was glad to hear that. Basicially he will not give her the Lepto portion in a year when he gives the Rabies.

Finally we discussed that she has not had a BAT - he said he did not really think it was warranted in the past, but that if I would like to check those numbers we certainly could and, of course, he knew this is a great indication of the liver function. We set that test for Monday.

Now, I know a lot of you out there wonder why these two vets (being in the same office) were not on the same page - but, that aside and not casting stones, I choose to go forward with my information and continue to use the younger of the two vets.

I will say that this website is so useful with information and that I would not have near as healthy a dog if I had not found this website; and the "links" contained on the Yahoo liver groups contain so much good information to at least give us "lay" people some knowlege as to the right questions to ask.

I don't find it strange that two vets in the same office might have different views or treatment strategies. I think many professionals have different views and I am with you on sticking with a vet who is more up-to-date (not necessarily younger as I had an "older" vet who was excellent too). I am glad you feel happy with the vet you have and that you are satisfied with his views on treatment. The BAT thing confuses me because while the biopsy gave a diagnosis, the BAT will give you info on liver function. I would consider REGULAR testing of BATs in this dog - my dog with liver issues has BAT testing every 6-9 mos, once a year if I'm lazy. Still not sure why he prefers K/D over L/D but as you said, you do what works. Best wishes.

[Ellie May]

Very normal when the vets at the same practice have different ways of doing things and there is nothing wrong with that. Just as long as the animal seeing more than one vet doesn't constantly have a changing treatment plan because of the disagreement... It's somewhat important to keep seeing the same vet if possible.

Can't hurt to do a BAT. We rarely do it here anymore because Ellie's are not expected to normalize and what we do for her will not change unless she gets symptoms or her liver enzymes go very high.

[Becca1]

Originally Posted by RONLYNN

I'm glad you have a plan and a vet that knows more. I don't know why, though, he wouldn't have your dog on LD which is clearly for Liver rather than KD which is higher in protein and is for Kidney problems. Hopefully you are able to have the surgery if you find out that the shunt is operable.

I can't explain it totally, but I have seen in the Univ. of Tennessee information that K/D can be used in Liver dogs and it is just his opinion that he would rather have her on K/D - she was previously on L/D and did not respond near as well and gain weight near as well when on the L/D.

[Becca1]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I don't find it strange that two vets in the same office might have different views or treatment strategies. I think many professionals have different views and I am with you on sticking with a vet who is more up-to-date (not necessarily younger as I had an "older" vet who was excellent too). I am glad you feel happy with the vet you have and that you are satisfied with his views on treatment. The BAT thing confuses me because while the biopsy gave a diagnosis, the BAT will give you info on liver function. I would consider REGULAR testing of BATs in this dog - my dog with liver issues has BAT testing every 6-9 mos, once a year if I'm lazy. Still not sure why he prefers K/D over L/D but as you said, you do what works. Best wishes.

I should have used better wording than "young" vet vs. "older" vet; I was just trying to differentiate between the two. Because the "older" vet is younger than I am, ha; but I mean to say maybe more "old school" and the thought of "he's the vet and not me" . I am glad to hear that you don't think it's that unusual to have differing opinions in the same practice. I'm just glad that I have finally figured out which vet seems to know more about this issue and will keep her with him. Now, I'm very anxious to see these BAT numbers and have more information to go forward. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Becca1]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Very normal when the vets at the same practice have different ways of doing things and there is nothing wrong with that. Just as long as the animal seeing more than one vet doesn't constantly have a changing treatment plan because of the disagreement... It's somewhat important to keep seeing the same vet if possible.

Can't hurt to do a BAT. We rarely do it here anymore because Ellie's are not expected to normalize and what we do for her will not change unless she gets symptoms or her liver enzymes go very high.

Yeah, that is exactly what I decided today - to see the same vet each time for her treatment. You wouldn't think it would be that big an issue being in the same office and it hasn't been a routine thing; just the last time she was due for her blood to be drawn and check her liver enzymes, one of our vets was out of town and I didn't think it a big deal to use the other one - but now that I know, they might have differing opinions, I will only utilitize the one.

I doubt we will change anything either (unless those BAT numbers are way out there), but I think it's good to have a basis. Thanks for your thoughts.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

KJC had said that the lepto vaccine causes liver enzymes to be higher than a liver shunt does. I honestly have never heard of that and just wondered where she read that.
My vet feels that the vaccine is ok to give, but only IF there is a possibility of exposure.
Just wanting more information.

I too am eager to see KJC's information on this as I plan to re-start the lepto vaccine in my dogs and would like to be able to ask about this beforehand.

KJC when is your computer expected to be returned? I have an appointment this week with Daisy's liver specialist and can ask him too, and report back.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Becca1

I can't explain it totally, but I have seen in the Univ. of Tennessee information that K/D can be used in Liver dogs and it is just his opinion that he would rather have her on K/D - she was previously on L/D and did not respond near as well and gain weight near as well when on the L/D.

JMHO: K/D causes the dog to drink more water.... to flush things out... so maybe bc of the elevated AST/ALT...

[lillymae]

I have read & reread & can't for the life of me see where anyone said that lepto vaccine can cause a LS. I did see where someone said that it can raise liver enzymes, but not higher then a LS. Could someone show me this please.