Struvite Crystals -- Cranberry Juice

[kjc]

Originally Posted by TLC

really I thought citrus contributed to it

Sounds like old-school so not done much anymore....

From: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2114&aid=400

Prior to the development of specialized diets, urinary acidifiers such as vitamin C or dl-methionine were sometimes used to lower the pH of the urine in cases of struvite stones, for example. Specialty diets are now preferred since they alter not only the pH, but the concentration on stone-forming constituents. Remember: Do NOT give urinary acidifiers when you are using one of the specialty diets that also acidify urine.

Originally Posted by 107barney

As for the diets, they are cans of crap and really high fat. I'm not comfortable with the diets after just having a near death with pancreatitis with the other dog. I tried it one night and he threw up and he did not tolerate the diet. All the other struvite diet are similar in high level of garbage fats. I will do it only with the blessing and oversight of the specialist.

Just a note: Some fat in the diet is necessary for proper metabolism of nutrients, and some medical conditions respond better to a higher level of fat in the diet... and, of course, it depends too on the individual being treated, and diet changes for treatment of specific maladies should always done on the recommendation of one's Veterinarian.

[107barney]

The purpose of the cranberry juice was so that he would drink more fluids while on metacam since I decided NOT to do the acidifying S/D or equivalent. And to increase his fluids, since he does not drink much as his food is home cooked plus he gets distracted by his reflection in the water bowl (I'm not kidding, he really likes to admire himself)

I am aware that fat is necessary in a diet but having home cooked for my dogs for 10 years I am strongly opposed to commercial foods except when in a pinch Teddy violently threw up that can of S/D and I said I was not doing it until I heard from the vet nutritionist. It is so loaded with sodium that i have a big problem with it, in addition to the garbage fats. He not only threw up but he was hiccuping and shaking after because he was so upset about it.

Whatever is in that can can be replicated by home cooked nutritious foods. I did that with Hill's L/D for my MVD dog with excellent results -- I'm just frustrated waiting and trying for months to get to the bottom of this and having every test come up normal.

If at the end of the day I have to take a yes ma'am approach and try this for the stones, I will, but I will be very cranky about it

[kjc]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Yes, he had BA tests at age 10 months. He was less than 1 preprandial and 9.3 postprandial so we are really normal in the world of the liver thankfully. All other blood work is within normal limits. His u/s just showed no abnormalities in development, just tiny struvite crystals.

Originally Posted by 107barney

Yes we've done cultures, they didn't grow anything. We are trying to have the vet nutritionist provide input in the diet to dissolve the crystals but she was on vacation so that will be happening this week. His ultrasound showed very tiny crystals so unlikely he will have an obstruction at this time.

He has shown some improvement on the cranberry juice and metacam but not as much a we had hoped.

As for the diets, they are cans of crap and really high fat. I'm not comfortable with the diets after just having a near death with pancreatitis with the other dog. I tried it one night and he threw up and he did not tolerate the diet. All the other struvite diet are similar in high level of garbage fats. I will do it only with the blessing and oversight of the specialist.

In the meanwhile I want to keep him comfy and the cranberry has sugar in it and I don't like pumping my dogs with sugar.

I'm frustrated!

Just one last note:

From: Bladder Stones (Urinary Calculi) in Dogs

Bladder stones are formed by minerals, which first precipitate out in the urine as individual microscopic crystals. Over time, these crystals unite and small grains of sand-like material may be formed. Once these first grains are present, additional precipitation forms on their surface and the tiny specks are gradually built into stones that sometimes reach 3" to 4" in diameter.

Good thing you caught it early! (Yeah, they add the sodium to get them to drink more...in the K/D)

[107barney]

well, it was easy to catch since it was so obvious from day 1. He was getting "stuck" while urinating and very distracted. Like he was so focused on peeing.

I have to get those crytals out of him!! Apparently his body likes to make them is what they are saying, but I'm not so sure... The breeder had him on Nutro around the time of the recall and it was associated with urinary probs. So these crystals could have been there all along for all I know.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by 107barney

The purpose of the cranberry juice was so that he would drink more fluids while on metacam since I decided NOT to do the acidifying S/D or equivalent. And to increase his fluids, since he does not drink much as his food is home cooked plus he gets distracted by his reflection in the water bowl (I'm not kidding, he really likes to admire himself)

I am aware that fat is necessary in a diet but having home cooked for my dogs for 10 years I am strongly opposed to commercial foods except when in a pinch Teddy violently threw up that can of S/D and I said I was not doing it until I heard from the vet nutritionist. It is so loaded with sodium that i have a big problem with it, in addition to the garbage fats. He not only threw up but he was hiccuping and shaking after because he was so upset about it.

Whatever is in that can can be replicated by home cooked nutritious foods. I did that with Hill's L/D for my MVD dog with excellent results -- I'm just frustrated waiting and trying for months to get to the bottom of this and having every test come up normal.

If at the end of the day I have to take a yes ma'am approach and try this for the stones, I will, but I will be very cranky about it

Awww, so funny about his reflection... have you tried a water bottle for him? Also, you could add a bit more water to his food, try him with ice cubes in and out of his bowl (may disrupt his reflction a bit)...
Also:
From: Bladder Stones + Crystals | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

When the infection is treated by the correct antibiotic, cranberry juice Capsules (not cranberry juice) can be given to the dog. These help to stop bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall and help prevent future infections. Some people have had success keeping the urine acidic, which helps prevent these crystals from forming, by feeding acidic foods and avoiding alkaline foods.

If your dog has struvite bladder stones, then acidifying the diet, along with treating the infection, can help dissolve the stones. Ascorbic acid (a form of vitamin C), and distilled water can help with this. , Acidic foods include chicken, beef, eggs, fish, pork, cottage cheese, yogurt, rice (brown and white), beans, nuts and all seafood.

[my 2 yorkies]

Originally Posted by 107barney

well, it was easy to catch since it was so obvious from day 1. He was getting "stuck" while urinating and very distracted. Like he was so focused on peeing.

I have to get those crytals out of him!! Apparently his body likes to make them is what they are saying, but I'm not so sure... The breeder had him on Nutro around the time of the recall and it was associated with urinary probs. So these crystals could have been there all along for all I know.

i was reading your posts about the crystals and it seems like my yorkie has the same thing as yours. it is very frustrating and i dont know what to do. i am giving him about 1/2 tsp per meal of pure cranberry juice , plus i give him greek yogurt. the vet has him on royal canin so and i think it is bad for him cause it has alot of by products in it.
i would like to cook for him, but i just dont know what ingredients it would take to make it like the royal canin so food. but i know i am going crazy and he is only 1 1/2 yrs old. it is very upsetting.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by my 2 yorkies

i was reading your posts about the crystals and it seems like my yorkie has the same thing as yours. it is very frustrating and i dont know what to do. i am giving him about 1/2 tsp per meal of pure cranberry juice , plus i give him greek yogurt. the vet has him on royal canin so and i think it is bad for him cause it has alot of by products in it.
i would like to cook for him, but i just dont know what ingredients it would take to make it like the royal canin so food. but i know i am going crazy and he is only 1 1/2 yrs old. it is very upsetting.

It is very frustrating. What worked for us was this plan --
antibiotics - Clavamox for 10 days
anti-inflammatory - Metacam - for 10 days
Uro-eze product sprinkled on his food 2x/day for 6 weeks

We stopped the above, hoping that things would not return, but after three months the crystals returned (but not the infection). So we are back on uro-eze, and waiting for the consult with the nutritionist to see if he stays on uro-eze for life.

the uro-eze can be used with any food, I sprinkle it on his food which is home cooked. If you would like to do a home cooked diet you need someone to make the diet for your baby. I can give you the name of our vet nutritionist, she does phone consults, but they are not cheap

[my 2 yorkies]

Originally Posted by 107barney

It is very frustrating. What worked for us was this plan --
antibiotics - Clavamox for 10 days
anti-inflammatory - Metacam - for 10 days
Uro-eze product sprinkled on his food 2x/day for 6 weeks

We stopped the above, hoping that things would not return, but after three months the crystals returned (but not the infection). So we are back on uro-eze, and waiting for the consult with the nutritionist to see if he stays on uro-eze for life.

the uro-eze can be used with any food, I sprinkle it on his food which is home cooked. If you would like to do a home cooked diet you need someone to make the diet for your baby. I can give you the name of our vet nutritionist, she does phone consults, but they are not cheap

hi, thanks for the info, my little boy was on clovamox for 10 days , only helped a little, he did not have a bacteria infection, though. then the vet put him on zenaquin, which he got really sick, threw up and was so out of it all day and night, i was so scared. then he did a sonogram and took sterile urine from him, to find out he has a few sturvite crystals. thats when he told me to put him on royal canin so canned food. i am trying to avoid him having the crystals turn into stones. i am giving him plenty of water, greek yogurt-plain, and cranberry juice, but i was wondering if the cranberry powder is better for him. these are my ideas, not the vet.
do you know about how much your vet nutrionist charges by phone ?
i will take her number, if you do nto mind, because i will be bringing in a sample in a couple of weeks of him being on the this food and if there is still crystals in his urine, i will have to try something else. what do you think about this? i am worried about him. thanks for your time, i really appreciate it.

[MollysMum54]

my little puppy mill girl has been on royal canin for 2 months now because of bladder stones. I tested her urine yesterday and no blood or protein present.
She has to have another xray in a weeks time and we are hoping the stones will have gone. The vet said Poppy will have to stay on specail food for ever, but i am hoping he will let her have the same food as my other dog (burns chicken and brown rice) with cranberry powder added.
I will continue to test her urine every week as I have become quite good at getting urine samples!!

[beachdog]

Paris takes Pala Tech Cranberry granules. I get them off ebay, much cheaper than the vet.

[107barney]

[QUOTE=my 2 yorkies;3372432]hi, thanks for the info, my little boy was on clovamox for 10 days , only helped a little, he did not have a bacteria infection, though. then the vet put him on zenaquin, which he got really sick, threw up and was so out of it all day and night, i was so scared. then he did a sonogram and took sterile urine from him, to find out he has a few sturvite crystals. thats when he told me to put him on royal canin so canned food. i am trying to avoid him having the crystals turn into stones. i am giving him plenty of water, greek yogurt-plain, and cranberry juice, but i was wondering if the cranberry powder is better for him. these are my ideas, not the vet.
do you know about how much your vet nutrionist charges by phone ?
i will take her number, if you do nto mind, because i will be bringing in a sample in a couple of weeks of him being on the this food and if there is still crystals in his urine, i will have to try something else. what do you think about this? i am worried about him. thanks for your time, i really appreciate it.[/QUOTE]

I know of no connection with plain greek yogurt and struvites or preventing them. As for cranberry juice, it's kind of old-school thinking...we used it to get Teddy to drink more, but not to acidify his bladder (we used the uro-eze product for that).

I would be happy to give you Dr. Remillard's contact info. Her phone number is listed here on the MSPCA-Angell Memorial Hopsital website under speciality services which you can find directly by this link: Nutrition Services
As for cost, the current cost is $95 for the consult, $11 hospital registration fee (one time) and $60 for a diet formulation. You should always double check the pricing with the hospital directly as these rates may change.