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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Seizures???? Please help!! (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/202929-seizures-please-help.html)

kjc 05-03-2010 07:59 AM
When did they start having these seizure-like episodes? Are the siblings that are not affected on the same food and are they the same gender? I'm just asking because getting to the bottom of a seizure disorder can be very expensive, and if you can make some of the changes already suggested, (increased canned food, replace food bowls w/SS, remove any foods containing fish, fish meal) it could eliminate some of the possibilities and/or the seizures themselves. The vet can rule out LS, brain tumors, toxins, etc. But many times, when there is no evidence or actual cause that is found, they may just opt to put them on antiseizure meds.
My stepdaughter has a seizure disorder, and the doctors didn't believe us till we videotaped an episode and showed them. Well after a few weeks and a battery of diagnostic tests, the most they could tell us was "her brain is predisposed to seizure-like activity", and put her on meds. And that was through Johns Hopkins Hospital!

Ladymom 05-03-2010 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3112664)
When did they start having these seizure-like episodes? Are the siblings that are not affected on the same food and are they the same gender? I'm just asking because getting to the bottom of a seizure disorder can be very expensive, and if you can make some of the changes already suggested, (increased canned food, replace food bowls w/SS, remove any foods containing fish, fish meal) it could eliminate some of the possibilities and/or the seizures themselves. The vet can rule out LS, brain tumors, toxins, etc. But many times, when there is no evidence or actual cause that is found, they may just opt to put them on antiseizure meds.
My stepdaughter has a seizure disorder, and the doctors didn't believe us till we videotaped an episode and showed them. Well after a few weeks and a battery of diagnostic tests, the most they could tell us was "her brain is predisposed to seizure-like activity", and put her on meds. And that was through Johns Hopkins Hospital!
In canines, most seizures in dogs under one year old are caused by an underlying disease. They are a symptom, not true epilepsy, so tests must be done to try to find the condition that is causing the seizures.

In dogs between 1-5, seizures are generally caused by idiopathic epilepsy. In that case, avoiding things that may trigger seizures and anti convulsants as you suggested are usually the preferred treatment.

POSSIBLE CAUSES OF SEIZURES BY AGE

kjc 05-03-2010 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3112735)
In canines, most seizures in dogs under one year old are caused by an underlying disease. They are a symptom, not true epilepsy, so tests must be done to try to find the condition that is causing the seizures.

In dogs between 1-5, seizures are generally caused by idiopathic epilepsy. In that case, avoiding things that may trigger seizures and anti convulsants as you suggested are usually the preferred treatment.

POSSIBLE CAUSES OF SEIZURES BY AGE
Thankyou...good article... but am I interpreting wrong? As I read it, it states that the possible causes I listed (that she could eliminate on her own at home) are 3rd and 4th most likely to occur in dogs less than 1 year of age.

From:POSSIBLE CAUSES OF SEIZURES BY AGE

Under each age category (the age when seizures first occurred), the possible causes (etiology) are approximately listed as the most likely first and the least likely cause last.
LESS THAN 1 YEAR OF AGE

Anomaly: hydrocephalus.

Inflammatory:
Infectious - Viral: canine distemper; parasitic; bacterial; fungal
Immune mediated

Metabolic:
Hepatic - portosystemic shunt; Autoimmune thyroiditis (early stage: TgAA positive); Hypoglycemia; Electrolyte disorders

Toxic: Single or combination vaccines; Lead; Drug related; Other exposures

Trauma: Acute; Delayed

Degenerative: Storage disorders

Primary: Idiopathic Epilepsy ("idiopathic" = cause unknown or undetermined)

Rhetts_mama 05-03-2010 11:14 AM
I haven't read all the responses here, but from the description of the seizures and elevated liver enzymes are they working up your babies for liver shunt?

Ladymom 05-03-2010 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3112772)
Thankyou...good article... but am I interpreting wrong? As I read it, it states that the possible causes I listed (that she could eliminate on her own at home) are 3rd and 4th most likely to occur in dogs less than 1 year of age.

From:POSSIBLE CAUSES OF SEIZURES BY AGE

Under each age category (the age when seizures first occurred), the possible causes (etiology) are approximately listed as the most likely first and the least likely cause last.
LESS THAN 1 YEAR OF AGE

Anomaly: hydrocephalus.

Inflammatory:
Infectious - Viral: canine distemper; parasitic; bacterial; fungal
Immune mediated

Metabolic:
Hepatic - portosystemic shunt; Autoimmune thyroiditis (early stage: TgAA positive); Hypoglycemia; Electrolyte disorders

Toxic: Single or combination vaccines; Lead; Drug related; Other exposures

Trauma: Acute; Delayed

Degenerative: Storage disorders

Primary: Idiopathic Epilepsy ("idiopathic" = cause unknown or undetermined)
Of course, the OP can try to eliminate seizure triggers. Since that is way down towards the bottom of the list in seizures in puppies, though, it should not be a substitute for testing. A liver shunt especially must be ruled out since they are so common in Yorkies. Dr. Center recommends Yorkies have bile acids test at 15 weeks and again at six months anyway.

If they were my puppies, I would do exactly what she is doing. A vet school like Auburn will be able to determine the cause of their seizures. Remember, she also most likely has to have testing done to satisfy the terms of her contract/health guarantee.

kjc 05-03-2010 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3112942)
Of course, the OP can try to eliminate seizure triggers. Since that is way down towards the bottom of the list in seizures in puppies, though, it should not be a substitute for testing. A liver shunt especially must be ruled out since they are so common in Yorkies. Dr. Center recommends Yorkies have bile acids test at 15 weeks and again at six months anyway.

If they were my puppies, I would do exactly what she is doing. A vet school like Auburn will be able to determine the cause of their seizures. Remember, she also most likely has to have testing done to satisfy the terms of her contract/health guarantee.
I agree, I never meant to imply that testing shouldn't be done. It just sounded like she was already planning for LS surgery before the BATs had even been done. Also, in pups with LS, more than one liver enzyme, usually two or more (ALT, AST) are more than mildly elevated, which isn't the case with her pups' bloodwork.

ChrystalBella 05-06-2010 04:37 AM
Today is vet day! Please pray that the people we come in contact with are full of wisdom and discernment. I am scared but hopefull that we will have answers as to what is going on....

red98vett 05-06-2010 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrystalBella (Post 3117033)
Today is vet day! Please pray that the people we come in contact with are full of wisdom and discernment. I am scared but hopefull that we will have answers as to what is going on....
Good luck !

Lolasmom1211 05-06-2010 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrystalBella (Post 3117033)
Today is vet day! Please pray that the people we come in contact with are full of wisdom and discernment. I am scared but hopefull that we will have answers as to what is going on....
I've just seen your posts for the first time this morning. I have a liver shunt baby that started having problems as soon as we brought her home at 10-12 weeks. I suspected liver shunt but the vet kept telling me I was wrong. She never had seizures or any other HE signs...she was just a picky eater, very small and didn't seem to have as much energy as I thought she should. I kept asking them to bile acid test her and I was told it was not necessary. Finally, at only just over a year old when she was supposed to be spayed, I insisted on the BAT, and her numbers were really high. I took her to University of Tennessee and had the shunt closed. My only regret is not having had the BAT run sooner. Good luck at your appointment today. The teaching hospitals are the best. Ask lots of questions - that is what you are there for!

Ladymom 05-06-2010 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrystalBella (Post 3117033)
Today is vet day! Please pray that the people we come in contact with are full of wisdom and discernment. I am scared but hopefull that we will have answers as to what is going on....
Good luck! Update us later on, okay?

kjc 05-06-2010 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrystalBella (Post 3117033)
Today is vet day! Please pray that the people we come in contact with are full of wisdom and discernment. I am scared but hopefull that we will have answers as to what is going on....
Praying hard for a great outcome. Best wishes and truly hope and pray that all goes better than expected!

Ladymom 05-06-2010 02:50 PM
Checking for an update. How did the appointment go?

kjc 05-07-2010 05:46 AM
Hope all went well... any update?

ChrystalBella 05-09-2010 11:56 AM
Well $1400 later we have no answers! We took them to Auburn Univ. Vet clinic. They had the bile acid test which were both good, their necks x-rayed to check for possible aa luxation and spinal taps done to look for possible meningitis or possible reaction to vaccines. We are waiting for the results of the spinal. As it stands right now, Bell does have a slight case of aa luxation so she is wearing a special collar. Anyone familar with this?? I am at a loss as to what the seizures could be caused from but I guess thankfull that so far not something that would be huge... I just don't know.

kjc 05-09-2010 12:10 PM
Wow! I must say that was some thorough workup. Hope something shows in the other pending results. Thank God you found out about Bell... that could have been devasting left untreated. Many threads up about AAI. I' ll find the link and post back.

Found it: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3114175


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