Seizures???? Please help!!
 

Hello all, I have two 15 wk little girls that seem to be having what looks to be like seizures. They will start shaking and then their back legs will straighten out. This is when they have been playing together. It lasts just a short minute or two and then they are fine and go back to playing. I have taken them to two different vets. The first avenue they have sent me down on is hypoglycemia. I make sure to keep dry dog food in their cage at all times (Eukanuba) and at morning and night I give them the dry mixed with beef or turkey baby food. They eat this just fine although in trying to monitor them more closely it seems they are not eating much at all of the dry during the day. Yesterday I took them back to the vet and they took blood to run a superchem (Antech Labs). They are litter mates and the person I purchased them from says that the others are not having similar problems. I am at a total loss and scared as to what the answer could be... I had a yorkie for 17 yrs and do not want to go through the heartache again. If anyone has some insite please, please let me know!!!!

If they aren't eating much during the day they will need to be encouraged (forced) to. They need to eat three times a day bare minimum and because they are small and there is a hypo concern, likely much more than three.

The next step would probably be bile acids testing for liver function. This isn't entirely accurate until 20 weeks of age, but you may need to do it now.

Everything else is normal? Stool checked, etc.?
What vaccines have they received?

Thank you, thank you for your reply! (I am really so scared of all the what ifs!!) I should get their lab results today. They are going to the bathroom just fine. They play just fine. We spent an hour with the vet yesterday and she said that looking at them physically they are great. They received their 3rd set of vaccines 4/23.

IM sorry you are going thru this with your baby girls. Are they really small?

Testing is always a good idea, but in the mean time just in my opinion and until they get older.
I think Id give them some canned food in the am too, for an extra sugar boost thru the day.
I donthave puppies with hypoglycemia very often, but I had a lil girl do the same thing. I wouldnt sell her because she was having just like you said the shaking and stiff legs. I increased her canned food while this went on, now she is totally on dry with never a problem! Now I love her and she is my baby. I can never sell her!
Hope its all just as minor as that a solution for you!

What you are describing doesn't sound like a typical seizure, although there are "partial" seizures that effect just one part of the body.

Partial seizures: Partial seizures are also called focal seizures and as the name indicates, the electrical storm is affecting only a part of the brain. A partial seizure may stay localized or it may expand to the whole brain and cause a tonic-clonic seizure. Because the seizure starts in only a part of the brain, an underlying disease or injury is highly suspected. A partial seizure may remain localized or spread to other parts of the cerebral cortex producing a sequential involvement of other body parts.

Partial seizures are classified as simple focal seizures when consciousness is preserved and as complex focal seizures when consciousness is altered. Any portion of the body may be involved during a focal seizure depending on the region of the brain affected.

PARTIAL OR FOCAL SEIZURES

I would definitely get bile acids tests done on both puppies. They should be done on all non-symptomatic Yorkies at around six months since the incidence of liver shunts is so high in the breed. Dr. Center recommends symptomatic puppies be tested earlier. At 15 weeks they are old enough.

Let us know the lab results when you get them, okay?

Agree'd ~ if they aren't eating enough during the day, you must force it. Play a game, toss some kibbles...

I am not found of Euk. I think there are better qualities brands (Wellness, Merrick, Halo) just to name a few. Maybe they aren't fond of Euk either.

Next I would do Bile Acids (soon), as Liver Shunt and MVD are very common in the Yorkie breed.

Please keep us posted :)

Sorry you are going through this with both of your babies. I'm glad you found YT as there is a wealth of information here.

I would do what the others suggested. When you get the test results back, I would let the breeder know if something does come back positive. Most of them will say none of their others are experiencing the same thing....doesn't mean there still isn't some genetic issue in her/his lines for breeding.

I'm surprised they're not showing a little more concerned about their babies they just sold to you in recent weeks....:rolleyes:

I hope everything comes back okay and they have happy, long lives with you!

Thanks once again to your responses!! I truly appreciate everyone’s input and advice. Here are the lab results (posting just the abnormalities every thing else is normal):

Bella
alkaline phosphatase 181 (5-131)

BUN/Creatinine Ration 36 (4-27) Creatinine is normal at 0.7

Platelet Count 468 (170-400)

Lymphocytes 4508 (690-4500)




Crystal
alkaline phosphatase 141 (5-131)

BUN/Creatinine Ration 37 (4-27) Creatinine is normal at 0.6

Phosphorus 7.3 (2.5-6.0)

Calcium 11.8 (8.9-11.4)

Platelet Count 459 (170-400)


Note added by the lab vet on Crystal’s report:

Hemolysis 1+ the following results may be affected by this degree of hemolysis:

-Increase-
ALT my be increased by 15-20%
AST may be increased by 10%
LDH may be increased up to 20%
-Decreased-
Direct Bilirubin may be increased up to 80%

Lymphs
This is a preliminary report. Cell counts and/or differential results are subject to change pending pathologist’s review.
Path Review
The leukocytes are generally not remarkable but there are a few slightly reactive lymphocytes. These are likely present in response to recent antigenic stimulation or inflammation but their presence should be monitored. The thrombocytosis is probably reactive. Cathy Thorn DVM, DVSC, DIPL ACVP

I don't know what those results indicate...

I thought they were going to do a Bile Acid Serium though :confused:

No they did the superchem (basic work up) first to see what they saw. I am looking on the web now trying to see what the abnormals all add up to and because they are not way out of range these can be normal, especially after just having had their shots. BUT the seizures are not and that is what concerns me! My one vet has told me that she things I need to go to a more specialized vet instead of just the normal neighborhood vet. I feel like a monster but I am scared of how much money I will then have to spend. My money maker tree is not producing :( I am going to look up more info on liver shunt issues.

The first thing I would do, is make an appt with your general Vet for a Bile Acid Serum (BAT) - costs $60 to $100 depending on where you live. Once you get these results, you will be able to have some idea of liver function: normal, MVD or Liver Shunt.

A specialist may need to be seen, but first do a BAT with your General Vet ;)

I have no experience with seizures but there are alot of people (including who already posted) who are a wealth of information here -

GOOD LUCK !

I agree. :thumbup:

Did you get a health guarantee with your puppies? Hopefully the breeder will honor it and help with the cost of the testing.

A typical blood chemistry panel usually includes

Partial Seziures
 

I have a 6 yr old that just started having the same type of sezures. It all BOUT YOUR POST.

We adopted Ginger 2 years ago. We have feed her EUKANUBA YORKIE FOOD as that was what her prior owner feed her. She has been on phenobarbatol and potaassiun Bromide for the last 4 months. During that time she has had 4 sezures.
I then changed her diet to a no grain EVO brand food. I did this 4 weeks ago. She has no had an event since.

TRY CHANGING THERE FOOD BRAND TO A HIGH PROTIEN NO GRAIN DIET. If you do and this works please let me know, it will be very interesting to know. If you look at the post(sticky) about foods you will see that Eukanuba is not rated very high. Please let me know what happens. I hope this helps, if it does it will save you thousands of dollars, I know first hand.

Did you know that it can take 3-4 months for potassium bromide to reach its full effect? I suspect this is the reason she hasn't had anymore seizures, not the change in diet.

Canine Epilepsy-Using Potassium Bromide to control seizures in dogs

Your right
 

Yes your right it does take 3 to four month to reach it full theraputic value. In Ginger's case she started the potasium bromide about 5 weeks ago. We tried it before but it didn't work. So they started phenobarbatol which made it somewhat better but not completly. That's why we started the Potassiun again. Just had her tested for levels and she tested low on the potassium and the same as before on the pheno. It could very well be it's the combo of meds that are working, then again it could have something to do with her diet change or all three things or none of it. All I know is that she is not having them for a good while now. If your like me, that is a good enough reason to give it a try. It shouldn't cause any harm according to her vet and neuro doctor. It is something that seems to have helped my yorkie so I threw it out there. If your do is haveing these seziures I assure you you would be williong to do whatever it takes to get them under control.
Just struk me as odd they have the same rare variety of seziures, with the same behavior during them and the all got the same diet. I think it's worth looking into.

I would definitely get these two in for BATs. Shunts are very costly to deal with, but you cannot worry about the costs before knowing a diagnosis... first find out what is wrong with your little girls. Good Luck!

In an older dog like your Ginger or my Lady (she started having seizures at 4.5 years old), the cause is generally idiopathic epilepsy. Certain things can trigger seizures in an epileptic dog. Some owners of epileptic dogs swear by grain free diets like you do. Preservatives in commercial foods are another potential trigger. Have you ever seen this list?

Seizure Triggers

In 15 week old puppies like the ones in this thread, though, seizures are usually caused by a disease. In Yorkie puppies, the most common cause is a liver shunt. That's why is is essential that the puppies have a bile acids test.

So True ! and changing the diet to higher protein would not be in their best interest if this is liver related.

here are two liver disease groups that are very informative

DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support

What kind of bowls are you feeding them their food and water in? Plastic or stainless steel or ceramic?

I feed them in plastic bowls that attach to their cage. I purchased them from PetSmart.

I am waiting for Auburn Univ. Vet Hosp to open up so that I can call. I was supposed to work today due to low census but they called me off :) I plan on making lots of calls today. I know that Univ of Tenn is the place to go but I called and spoke with Auburn and they do do the surgery if indeed that is the case. Does anyone have any expeirence with them??? My neighbor used them for her cat who needed extensice urinary surgery and can't say enough about them.


After all the reading reading and talking with soooo many people thus far I am just going to go to them and let them proceed with the diagnostic work up instead of my local vet.

Any advice?????


From the bottom of my heart I truly appreciate each and everyone of you for listening and voicing your thoughts. These two little girls are sooo cute and I just don't know what I will do if there is something major wrong. If you are a praying person please pray for our finances in the ablility to deal with what comes our way and for the doctors to have wisdom and discernment in their ability to treat them. THANKS!!

Get rid of the plastic and switch to stainless steel (best) or ceramic. Plastic can leach out chemicals into the food and water and can cause seizures, in some dogs (sensitive ones),. Bloodwork does not look indicative of Liver Shunt to me. Have to go, I'll post more in an hour or so.

Also, seizures that occur from LS in young pups normally happen within 30 minutes of them eating, many within 5-10 minutes, and they are usually more involved, as they occur due to toxicity issues in the brain, so it's more of a fall down flat on the floor for a bit, with full body involvement, then get up and function okay until after next feed time.

Also, on the bloodwork, the ALT, and AST enzymes would be high. It won't hurt to do a Bile Acid Test on both of them, as all Yorkies should be BAT tested, and your regular vet should be able to do them. I wouldn't worry about calling U of Tenn just yet, until you get the BAT results back. Also, they have great info re: LS

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Thans so much for the reply. I am in the process of trying to get an appointment to have them evaluated at Auburn. Their seizures are spontaneous and don't seem to coorelate with feeding. I agree that the blood results are not way out of normal. It was even suggested that the abnomalites could reflect recent vaccinations. I want to have them evaluated at Auburn since they are more qualified than our local vets. I want to cut out the running around and hopefully get to the bottom. I have even thought about thyroid problems???

Did they do a T4 on the bloodwork? If not, they may be able to run it on the blood already at the lab... call and ask your vet.

Exactly what vaccines did they get recently? DHPP or DHLPP or DHLPPC?

I think you're really jumping the gun here though. Replace their bowls with Stainless steel, then schedule the BATs with your regular vet. There really is no need to have anyone else do the BATs. The procedure can be looked up by your vet if he's not familiar with it. It's really not rocket science. I'm just telling you this to try and help you to conserve some money. If the BATs come back high, then go to a specialist for further evaluation. The reason I know is because my dog has Liver Shunt, and we've been there. I can understand your panic and wanting to get to the bottom of this quickly, but seriously, their bloodwork really isn't leaning towards LS.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...ng-dishes.html See post #21

Than sounds like a good plan. Auburn is the place to go. Keep us posted, okay?

Also, be sure that the food you're feeding or may feed in the future does not contain fish or fish meal. All fish products are preserved with ethoxyquin, but not always listed in the ingredients.