update
 

Elvis continues to have seizures, we have worked on the behavior...he is a friendly as ever but immediately after a seizure he bites...who can blame him he's terrified! Elvis has cluster seizures which means he has usually 3-5 seizure a little as minutes apart and for the length of several days at a time. He seems to be loosing his sense of smell and depth perception or sight in one eye, as well now lets his tongue often hang out of his mouth. However most of the time he is happy and healthy, with the exception of early arthritis, but I give him a daily supplement for it, which has truly aided in his symptoms for that disappearing. We can't do anything fo rthe seizures there is not pattern of them, and they are not frequent enough to medicate him...in all honesty the medications cause so many side effects I'm almost glad not to give him anything. We keep a list of things that can trigger seizures on the fridge (rosemary is a HUGE one) switched his heart worm and worming treatment, continue with the frontline plus and hope for the best. I'm deeply troubled by the response from he kennel I got him from and the later finding out that he was actually purchased from another breeder who after his litter ended her line, fixed her dogs and petted them out-as she should have-but failed to tell anyone she ended her line for a genetic defect-EPILEPSY. I can't imagine not having him in my life now though. I wouldn't however recommended getting a dog with issues like his to anyone whom can't handle the loss...Elvis is only 3 years old and according to my vet in another two years (if that) I'll be making decisions about the quality of his life verses postponing his life if his seizures keep up and continue to take away his abilities at the current rate of progression. I'll do whatever it takes to keep him around and going strong but with a heavy heart, quality of life has to be considered also. Until then I enjoy everyday with him and most days you'd never know he was anything less than in perfect and in perfect health.

Cluster seizures 3-5 minutes apart that last for several days are certainly frequent enough to medicate!

Idopathic epilepsy usually doesn't have a "pattern", but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be medicated. Lady has never had a pattern or any triggers I could pinpoint.

Losing his eyesight and sense of smell is from brain damage from such frequent seizures. Not medicating Elvis when his cluster seizures are that close together means you face status epilepticus, a horrible emergency situation that may cause irreversible brain damage.

Epilepsy should not be a death sentence! My Lady has had seizures since I adopted her at age four. They were frequent enough (several a month) that we started phenobarbital. A few years later she started having cluster seizures and had an episode that lasted for 48 hours. My vet added potassium bromide and we were able to get them under control. She is now 15 and hasn't had a seizure in several years. With supplements to protect her liver and a special homecooked diet the past few years, her liver values are still in the normal range/no damage from her medication.

Ladymom. mu dog is on the same medications for seizures too. He hasn't had one in about 8 years, thank goodness. It breaks your heart to see them go thru a seizure.

I agree with everything said here. My puppy Max had focal seizures starting at 12 weeks old every few minutes. The seizures would last for about 5 seconds each but would go on all day long every day. He is currently on phenobarbital and since he's been regulated has not had anymore seizures. We are very proactive in checking his liver function. But in all honesty, I would much prefer a potential side effect for taking medicine than the type of reactions your dog is getting from having seizures! Max has idiopathic epilepsy. I consider him a very healthy dog.

I totally agree that it sounds like this pup needs medication!

Going to print this out and take it back to my vet...but Elvis' seizures are about 4-6 months apart is "episodes" its just that once he has one he has 3-5 within 48 hours...really appreciate the follow up from everyone I feel like after the initial emergency the vet was deeply concerned for a 30 day and then a 90 day tracking period kind of went there's nothing we can do besides give Karo syrup in between seizures, keep valume on hand if he doesn't come out of it in more than 5 minutes (some of those times one minute, two minutes-have been the longest minutes of my life) I have taken him to three vets locally because I felt kind of concerned about hte vets lattened laxed approach-although I do go to a very esteemed vet-I wasn't willing to just have one opinion to go on. All the vets felt that his seizure episodes weren't frequent enough and that medication long term has the same effects as untreated "mild" cluster epilepsy. I was still frustrated thinking why is it other dogs have seizures and live long lives and I'm here being told I will have to be making quality of life decisions for my Elvie-roo before a quarter of his expected life span has passed? I also did the UC Davis consult and they too agreed his disorder doesn't warrant meds unless the seizure episode become monthly, but still he has 3-5 at a time, often minutes apart...

Did you tell them that it goes on for "days at a time"?? I cannot believe that they think that is ok. :(

Yes but apparently the "methodology" of seizure severity decision making (or some nonsense liek that!) tracks seizure activity in a 48 hour period so apparently that's not a big deal...well to some people, to me it's huge, one seizure is huge let alone 3-5 like I said some 2 minutes apart some two hours apart in sets of 3-5 which once was 16 hours of seizure ranging up to 6 hours apart and mini "trembles" in between. I had to keep a log of his seizures for 90 days (I still keep it even now though) I write down the first seizure note the time, duration of seizure, he response check list in making sure he's out of it and then wait for the next one and track the same until they stop, Elvie was attached to my hip (we even broke the grocery store rules and he came in with me-in a doggy carrier that looks like a giant purse of course though) for about 5 months. After that life well pened I feel okay about leaving him home, but I kennel the other two dogs when I go out because I have seen how they react when he has a seizure-nothing has happened besides growling at him so far and I plan on keeping it that way...anyways I have come home a few times after an outing and noticed he seemed to have had a seizure when I was gone so I note it and wait for the next-it is never just one. But I've only had Elvis about a year now and so he's only had 3 episodes I've witness and one I think I wasn't home for. I'm really glad I got the support in people's reactions from here that this doesn't seem right so I don't feel like a hypochondriac going back to the vet demanding we do more.

Did you go see the neurologist? You mentioned that you had a consult. How about an mri to really find out the severity of what's happening.

When a dog starts having cluster seizures it's time for medication as that's when brain damage occurs. The electrical storms in their head generate so much heat it fries their brain if there is no respite in between.

Kindling is a phenomenon where the brain actually rewires itself every time it has a seizure to make a path so the next seizure is easier. That is why idiopathic epilepsy is generally a progressive disease. Elvis' seizures will just continue to get worse until one day the he won't come out of it or he has irreversible brain damage.

I agree with Karen. If your local vets aren't taking it seriously, ask for a referral to a neurologist.

I did only the referral to UC Davis and spoke to the head of their neurology department, she requested the initial blood work, test for liver/kidney function and later wanted the results of a 90 day tracking, interstitially we weren't sure if this was neurological or environmental or caused by another medical problem as I had only had Elvis a month or so I think and the kennel I got him from said he had never had a seizure or any medical issues-although Shelborne's Yorkies also claimed to de-worm and regularly treat for worms and Elvis arrived with worms (severe infestation), no fleas but he had tons of flea poo in his coat, and teeth in very poor condition for his age. I had to have him immediately treated with de-wormer and he had to have a tooth scraping and cleaning at the vets-it was too bad to have done at the groomer, plus Elaine never sent his vet records as she said she would for the two years she had him, and failed to respond later to my requests for them, so its uncertain if she knew he had this issue (seizures), he also has arthritis and that was stated but that's easy to treat for and we have that under control with a vitamin supplement. My vet took all this treatment very seriously so I never doubted their decisions. Anyways after the results of the tests here and the 90 day tracking of seizure activity the head of neurology at UC Davis determined that unless seizures were occurring regularly within a 30 day time period, seizures every month the MRI would be pointless and so would medication. I guess in all honest MRI results in dogs can only tell the part of the brain affected, as well the extent of damage. But my point is exactly that Elvis having cluster seizures is more severe even every 90 days than a dog who say seizes once every 30 days. I mean I respect their decisions but I think sometimes people that are used to these situations give general determinations and they forget that even though Elvis is my dog he's also one of my kids.

What a situation you are in where 4 vets tell you that your dog doesn't need medicine, but you don't seem ok with that. And frankly, neither would I. I don't even know what to tell you. It sounds like you are doing all the right things. Should you go get a 5th opinion? I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

Are his seizures exactly as they were when you had the consult done? they sound worse in your description...if so, then perhaps you should contact them again? Just a thought.

Have you updated UC Davis since Elvis started have cluster seizures so close together that go on for days?

Updated no. The last from them was if he wasn't haven't seizures more than one a month, then they really couldn't help, she felt that the primary decision should come from my vet, and that "in reality" an MRI is used to determine where and the extent of damage to brain from seizures and we don't normally see dogs unless medication isn't controlling seizures that happen on a regular basis monthly. Yes, I'm not sure if a 5th opinion is necessicary, but I think I'm going to go back to my vet and demand we try something else. Its not that Elvis has regular seizures or that anything has really changed from the beginning but its like at first this was all an emergency lets monitor and now its like well lets do basically nothing...I don't know how to do nothing there has to be something he can't keep slowly but surely loose his abilities I'm not okay with standing idly and letting it happen, I just don't have the knowledge to advocate for anything in particular.