Yoda May Have Liver Disease & Pancreatitis :( - Page 6 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

correct BUT that does not explain the STONES that is a whole other issue going

also wanted to state lipase breaks down fat and amylase breaks down starch so in evaluating those numbers keep that in mind as that can help narrow things down as well

and the reason i am concerned about liver issue is because there are stones present so again i stated before if no stones present then i would just attribute liver values elevated was due to pancreatitis BUT since stones as well then liver needs to be addressed with bile acid testing obviously once yoda is out of the woods with pancreatitis as that is very hard on the system so he has to get through that first. A sign of liver disease is stones

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 07:53 AM

info on stones so it is important to know which type of stones which they will advise once removed

high protein diets in yorkies can cause this

Bladder Stones (Urinary Calculi) in Dogs

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 07:58 AM

here is something to think about and consult with vet as it happened to my mom - she had gallstones and it triggered a gallbladder attack and she ended up with pancreatitis from it SO i am now thinking maybe the stones triggered the attack on the pancreas so you may want to read this and ask the vet if this could have been the cause. Ultimately it all comes down to diet too high in fat and protein BUT this may be the culprit as you said you have been feeding this for years so maybe once the stones developed it triggered the pancreatic attack

Diseases of the Gallbladder & Bile Duct in Dogs

This could be why the liver values were high and my dogs were not as he did not have stones and the stones can be attributed to liver issue as liver, gallbladder, small intestines and pancreas are all working together - the liver could be functioning bad due to not able to break down proteins thus causing stones then stopping up system triggering a pancreatic attack

cj125 · 12-17-2009, 08:10 AM

Continuing prayers and best wishes...

: hands:

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 08:12 AM

a yorkie owner on here i helped and we talked on phone his dog was 4 had no symptoms at all of liver shunt. He went in for diarhea they found stones and his bile acids were high as well as ALT so they did ultrasound and due to stones they wanted to check for shunt as they thought they saw a shunt. He went to ut to dr tobias and had the surgery and turned out he had 3 shunts so they could not do the constrictor on him so he has to be on low protein diet so it is not uncommon that shunts can show up later on in a dog with no symptoms. What happens is the body adapts and blows out more shunts so why this dog had more than on shunt as the body adapted. Now had this dog had seizures, etc and they found it early on then they could have repaired it and the other two shunts may not have appeared but the dog had NO symptoms until the stones showed up by the dog having some diarhea issues. I was shocked myself as i thought it would only be in dogs with seizures etc so i asked my internal medicine specialist and she said she sees it many times that they show up later in life. Once the liver is ruled out for yoda by bile acid testing then it could just be too high protein in diet that caused the stones.

ladyjane · 12-17-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

correct BUT that does not explain the STONES that is a whole other issue going

also wanted to state lipase breaks down fat and amylase breaks down starch so in evaluating those numbers keep that in mind as that can help narrow things down as well

No, I am not referring to stones. That is a different issue. I am simply saying that I doubt the liver caused the stones as you suggest.

I believe the enzymes were elevated because of the pancreas, but I am not a vet. I think he needs to ask the vet.

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

No, I am not referring to stones. That is a different issue. I am simply saying that I doubt the liver caused the stones as you suggest.

I believe the enzymes were elevated because of the pancreas, but I am not a vet. I think he needs to ask the vet.

it could be liver or it could be high protein diet but if the liver cannot process the high protein it can cause stones. You are correct he needs to consult vet but these are all things and possibilities to ask the vet as many times when faced with these situations we do not know what to ask and why people outside of the situation can address things such as this so they can ask vet about the possibilities as i know i was clueless when this happened to my dog and i had no clue about these groups and why i joined was because my dog was so sick and others helped me and i educated myself thorougly on the pancreas after this incident as i did not ever want it to happen again and could not figure out what caused it etc so for 4 years i have read everything i could about it same with liver disease mvd as dee dee has that based on 3 bile acid tests over the course of a year so i belong to liver shunt and mvd groups and have thorougly educated myself on that as well and always wanting to learn. I do not one to soley rely on one person and want to understand what is going on and between me, ims and vet we all came to the same conclusion white potato diets. It took all 3 of us working together to figure the cause.

Bianca · 12-17-2009, 08:21 AM

Sending prayers and positive thoughts

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 08:23 AM

more info on liver

Symptoms and Diagnosis of Liver Disorders in Dogs

ladyjane · 12-17-2009, 08:26 AM

Prayers for Yoda will continue from my home. Hope he is on the mend soon.

dwerten · 12-17-2009, 08:32 AM

more info on stones and liver - so you need to know if urate bladder stones or struvite which they will test the stones once removed- if urate then tied to liver

Portosystemic shunt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Symptoms and diagnosis
Symptoms of congenital PSS usually appear by six months of age[1] and include failure to gain weight, vomiting, and signs of hepatic encephalopathy (a condition where toxins normally removed by the liver accumulate in the blood and impair the function of brain cells) such as seizures, depression, tremors, drooling, and head pressing. Urate bladder stones may form because of increased amounts of uric acid in circulation and excreted by the kidneys. Initial diagnosis of PSS is through laboratory bloodwork showing either elevated serum bile acids after eating or elevation of fasting blood ammonia levels, which has been shown to have a higher sensitivity and specificity than the bile acids test.[4] Rectal portal scintigraphy using 99mtechnetium pertechnetate, a technique of imaging involving detection of gamma rays emitted by radionuclides absorbed through the rectum and into the bloodstream, demonstrates the blood vessel bypassing the liver. Surgery definitively shows the shunt if it is extrahepatic.

these are the two types

Types of bladder stones in dogs - URATE and STRUVITE

There are several different types of bladder stones in dogs, depending on their chemical make-up. Struvite stones are composed of magnesium ammonium phosphate. Others are made of calcium oxalate, calcium phosphate, cystine, ammonium urate, or other chemical compounds. Some stones can actually be a combination of these. Each type of stone has its own different peculiarities as to which breed is most often affected and what factors affect the formation.

also if bile acid is high over 100 when they do surgery for stones you can have them see if there is a shunt

AprilLove · 12-17-2009, 02:27 PM

So sorry little Yoda is not doing well!!!!

Prayers going out for Yoda to bounce right back from this!

alaskayorkie · 12-17-2009, 05:10 PM

Oh, no, I'm stumbling on this late. Yoda, you have the best parents ever, and you're in the best hands. I know you're going to bounce back. Sending strength to FE and family and healthy thoughts to Yoda.

Thanks so much for keeping us informed.

YorkieMom55 · 12-17-2009, 05:14 PM

Prayers for Yoda and his family tonight.

linda44 · 12-17-2009, 05:21 PM

Just checking in and sending Yoda and family prayers and hugs.

12-17-2009, 07:58 AM	#78
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	here is something to think about and consult with vet as it happened to my mom - she had gallstones and it triggered a gallbladder attack and she ended up with pancreatitis from it SO i am now thinking maybe the stones triggered the attack on the pancreas so you may want to read this and ask the vet if this could have been the cause. Ultimately it all comes down to diet too high in fat and protein BUT this may be the culprit as you said you have been feeding this for years so maybe once the stones developed it triggered the pancreatic attack Diseases of the Gallbladder & Bile Duct in Dogs This could be why the liver values were high and my dogs were not as he did not have stones and the stones can be attributed to liver issue as liver, gallbladder, small intestines and pancreas are all working together - the liver could be functioning bad due to not able to break down proteins thus causing stones then stopping up system triggering a pancreatic attack Last edited by dwerten; 12-17-2009 at 08:00 AM.

12-17-2009, 08:10 AM	#79
cj125 Mia, Max and Moe's Mom Donating Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 4,403	Continuing prayers and best wishes... : hands: __________________ *Connie* Mia Max Moe

12-17-2009, 08:26 AM	#85
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	Prayers for Yoda will continue from my home. Hope he is on the mend soon. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

12-17-2009, 08:32 AM	#86
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	more info on stones and liver - so you need to know if urate bladder stones or struvite which they will test the stones once removed- if urate then tied to liver Portosystemic shunt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Symptoms and diagnosis Symptoms of congenital PSS usually appear by six months of age[1] and include failure to gain weight, vomiting, and signs of hepatic encephalopathy (a condition where toxins normally removed by the liver accumulate in the blood and impair the function of brain cells) such as seizures, depression, tremors, drooling, and head pressing. Urate bladder stones may form because of increased amounts of uric acid in circulation and excreted by the kidneys. Initial diagnosis of PSS is through laboratory bloodwork showing either elevated serum bile acids after eating or elevation of fasting blood ammonia levels, which has been shown to have a higher sensitivity and specificity than the bile acids test.[4] Rectal portal scintigraphy using 99mtechnetium pertechnetate, a technique of imaging involving detection of gamma rays emitted by radionuclides absorbed through the rectum and into the bloodstream, demonstrates the blood vessel bypassing the liver. Surgery definitively shows the shunt if it is extrahepatic. these are the two types Types of bladder stones in dogs - URATE and STRUVITE There are several different types of bladder stones in dogs, depending on their chemical make-up. Struvite stones are composed of magnesium ammonium phosphate. Others are made of calcium oxalate, calcium phosphate, cystine, ammonium urate, or other chemical compounds. Some stones can actually be a combination of these. Each type of stone has its own different peculiarities as to which breed is most often affected and what factors affect the formation. also if bile acid is high over 100 when they do surgery for stones you can have them see if there is a shunt Last edited by dwerten; 12-17-2009 at 08:34 AM.

12-17-2009, 02:27 PM	#87
AprilLove My Three Hearts Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wrapped around their paws :-) Posts: 7,190	So sorry little Yoda is not doing well!!!! Prayers going out for Yoda to bounce right back from this! __________________ MaryKay AprilLove Wubs Moosie R.I.P. Bailey & BitsyRoo

12-17-2009, 07:53 AM	#77
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	info on stones so it is important to know which type of stones which they will advise once removed high protein diets in yorkies can cause this Bladder Stones (Urinary Calculi) in Dogs

12-17-2009, 08:12 AM	#80
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	a yorkie owner on here i helped and we talked on phone his dog was 4 had no symptoms at all of liver shunt. He went in for diarhea they found stones and his bile acids were high as well as ALT so they did ultrasound and due to stones they wanted to check for shunt as they thought they saw a shunt. He went to ut to dr tobias and had the surgery and turned out he had 3 shunts so they could not do the constrictor on him so he has to be on low protein diet so it is not uncommon that shunts can show up later on in a dog with no symptoms. What happens is the body adapts and blows out more shunts so why this dog had more than on shunt as the body adapted. Now had this dog had seizures, etc and they found it early on then they could have repaired it and the other two shunts may not have appeared but the dog had NO symptoms until the stones showed up by the dog having some diarhea issues. I was shocked myself as i thought it would only be in dogs with seizures etc so i asked my internal medicine specialist and she said she sees it many times that they show up later in life. Once the liver is ruled out for yoda by bile acid testing then it could just be too high protein in diet that caused the stones.

12-17-2009, 08:21 AM	#83
Bianca No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New York Posts: 761	Sending prayers and positive thoughts

12-17-2009, 08:23 AM	#84
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	more info on liver Symptoms and Diagnosis of Liver Disorders in Dogs

12-17-2009, 05:10 PM	#88
alaskayorkie Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anchorage Posts: 30,843 Blog Entries: 57	Oh, no, I'm stumbling on this late. Yoda, you have the best parents ever, and you're in the best hands. I know you're going to bounce back. Sending strength to FE and family and healthy thoughts to Yoda. Thanks so much for keeping us informed. __________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube

12-17-2009, 05:14 PM	#89
YorkieMom55 All Dogs Go To Heaven Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: By The Lake Posts: 2,727	Prayers for Yoda and his family tonight. __________________ Jeanie I am @ the Lake Jackson, Maggie, Sunshine, Bailey, Rocky, Emmie & Jack

12-17-2009, 05:21 PM	#90
linda44 Luv my 7 Furkids Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: napa Posts: 9,655 Blog Entries: 4	Just checking in and sending Yoda and family prayers and hugs. __________________ Linda, & furbutts http://www.sketchesbybarney.com