Critique this vet visit

[newyorki]

HI - I am ne where and first I want to extend my well wishes to all of the sick Yorkies on this forum. May they all get better soon.

I had an issue yesterday that I would like to discuss. As I've mentioned I am a new pet owner and don't always know what to look for or assert myself. However, as a mom I have had LOTS of experiences with pediatricians doing the CYA dance, missing symptoms, over medicating and over intervening. WHy should I assume vets are any different. So if you have a moment to read this and help me learn I would appreciate it.

I adopted two Yorkies (actually one is a Y-Poo) from a rescue within the last month. The first was treated for giardia . When I adopted the second, he was also treated for giardia. (both had stool test). I asked, based on what I've learned about giardia, should we check Yorkie #1 or do anything preventative to him? The answer was no, just treat Y2.

OK...course of meds finished about 2 weeks ago. Y1 continues to have a bad day once in a while with some D. To the point, I have never graduated them to dog food, still cooking them boiled chicken and sweet potato. Most D episodes have seemed to be a one shot deal, followed by a normal stool.

Over the weekend, Yorkie 1 had a few D's in a row. Not to get too graphic, but one was green. I called the vet immediately on Sunday and they said bring him in Monday morning. Right when I was packing up Y1 to leave, Y2 produced a less noteworthy D, but it was D nonetheless. So I packed him along for the ride.

So yesterday morning they were both seen and tested. Stool tests to be sent out. the vet told me he was going to do subcutaneous fluids on them, and no food for 24 hours (which seemed odd to me since I've read Yorkies can get low blood sugar.). he gave me a scrip for antibiotics and told me he suspected giardia. He also prescribed a high fiber dog food, I believe that it is called WD, (I am being used as a pillow by a lonely Y2 so I can't go look).

I took the boys home, gave them a butt-bath (which they needed) and both put up the usual struggle They hovered by their dishes and asked for food but eventually scampered off to play, fight, and nap. A few hours later, Y1 came up to me to get my attention. He was in distress. He is 5 lbs btw. I picked him up and he shrieked in pain. I figured a way to hold him comfortably and inspected him. He was shaking all over. I called the vet immediately - it was about 1 PM.

The vet did not take my call but I informed the office of the pain, shrieking, shaking, and change in personality. I put on Y1's sweater and cranked up the heat. Still shivering. I made a hot water bottle. Still shivering. Now, IMO way too much time has passed, I've read about hypoglecemia, I decided to give some Karo syrup. FINALLY, the shivering stopped.

I basically spent the next 3 hours distraught, holding Y1 and trying to comfort him as he looked at me drowsy and glassy eyed. He took water when I gave it to him. At 4 PM the vet finally called back and said if I felt more comfortable doing so I could bring him in. Hell yeah!!!

So, I get over there by 5, and the upshot was, he had a fever..I believe it may have been 104 or even 105. The vet did not specify, this info came later. The vet told me that he would need to stay overnight. Not one person in the office would give me a guarantee he would be OK. They kept saying "we'll have to wait for tests". Our entire family spent an awful night last night worrying.

Overnight we spoke to the night nurse who said they had never seen pain in sub Cu sites like this and he might never recover.

Meanwhile, Y2 seems fine....still some D but has eaten and has started on his meds. He weighs 6 lbs.

Today, I spoke to the vet. Y1 is "stable", his temp is down to 101, his stool test was (-), his blood tests were "not bad", and they are able to decrease the fluids in his IV. Hopefully remove it. The vet reiterated he had never seen a dog have pain at the subcutanuous injection sites. However, he did say that he will recover from the pain. He said that the puppy was walking around on his own and ate some baby food. However, overall he is not satisfied with the lethargy.

They want me to c/b again at 3 and possibly keep him for one more night. of course we all want our baby back ASAP.

I realize this is a long post, but you guys are smart and experienced. I wonder if you see any red flags there. I am used to arguing with doctors when it comes to my kids, and I am used to catching stuff the doctors miss. However I need to learn when it comes to vets. Off the top of my head it seems like if this vet had called back sooner and responded about the shaking, we might have caught an issue sooner. And wth with the sub cu fluids? Really, no other dog has shown sensitivity to this? Comments?

Thanks for reading.

[Cha Cha]

I am so sorry. It sounds like a nightmare. I am not one to immediately assume a vet is wrong. You have to remember it is a science and animals cannot talk. I guess this makes animals and young children very similar. Until they have a positive test result they are going on their best educated guess. It sounds to me like they are doing what they know to do with what they are seeing in front of them at the time. Tests are coming back good, right? That is a positive thing.

[newyorki]

Yeah, it's true. They are trained professionals. Originally I would have thought vets, for whatever reason seem more dedicated and less mercenary than MD's..one reason would be, insurance companies do not control their practices like they do with MD's.

Thanks for the POV. I was wondering if I should have been more pro-active in some way..like it's a known fact that sub cu injections hurt Yorkies or something. I don't expect you to archive my posts (smile) but this is the same guy who expressed surprise that my Yorkie could ever be aggressive or territorial.

thx so much.

[ArmaniMan]

Where are you located in NY? Are you close to the city?

I would be looking for a new vet honestly... especially if one told me not to feed two yorkie puppies for 24 hours.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by newyorki

HI - I am ne where and first I want to extend my well wishes to all of the sick Yorkies on this forum. May they all get better soon.

I had an issue yesterday that I would like to discuss. As I've mentioned I am a new pet owner and don't always know what to look for or assert myself. However, as a mom I have had LOTS of experiences with pediatricians doing the CYA dance, missing symptoms, over medicating and over intervening. WHy should I assume vets are any different. So if you have a moment to read this and help me learn I would appreciate it.

I adopted two Yorkies (actually one is a Y-Poo) from a rescue within the last month. The first was treated for giardia . When I adopted the second, he was also treated for giardia. (both had stool test). I asked, based on what I've learned about giardia, should we check Yorkie #1 or do anything preventative to him? The answer was no, just treat Y2.

OK...course of meds finished about 2 weeks ago. Y1 continues to have a bad day once in a while with some D. To the point, I have never graduated them to dog food, still cooking them boiled chicken and sweet potato. Most D episodes have seemed to be a one shot deal, followed by a normal stool.

Over the weekend, Yorkie 1 had a few D's in a row. Not to get too graphic, but one was green. I called the vet immediately on Sunday and they said bring him in Monday morning. Right when I was packing up Y1 to leave, Y2 produced a less noteworthy D, but it was D nonetheless. So I packed him along for the ride.

So yesterday morning they were both seen and tested. Stool tests to be sent out. the vet told me he was going to do subcutaneous fluids on them, and no food for 24 hours (which seemed odd to me since I've read Yorkies can get low blood sugar.). he gave me a scrip for antibiotics and told me he suspected giardia. He also prescribed a high fiber dog food, I believe that it is called WD, (I am being used as a pillow by a lonely Y2 so I can't go look).

I took the boys home, gave them a butt-bath (which they needed) and both put up the usual struggle They hovered by their dishes and asked for food but eventually scampered off to play, fight, and nap. A few hours later, Y1 came up to me to get my attention. He was in distress. He is 5 lbs btw. I picked him up and he shrieked in pain. I figured a way to hold him comfortably and inspected him. He was shaking all over. I called the vet immediately - it was about 1 PM.

The vet did not take my call but I informed the office of the pain, shrieking, shaking, and change in personality. I put on Y1's sweater and cranked up the heat. Still shivering. I made a hot water bottle. Still shivering. Now, IMO way too much time has passed, I've read about hypoglecemia, I decided to give some Karo syrup. FINALLY, the shivering stopped.

I basically spent the next 3 hours distraught, holding Y1 and trying to comfort him as he looked at me drowsy and glassy eyed. He took water when I gave it to him. At 4 PM the vet finally called back and said if I felt more comfortable doing so I could bring him in. Hell yeah!!!

So, I get over there by 5, and the upshot was, he had a fever..I believe it may have been 104 or even 105. The vet did not specify, this info came later. The vet told me that he would need to stay overnight. Not one person in the office would give me a guarantee he would be OK. They kept saying "we'll have to wait for tests". Our entire family spent an awful night last night worrying.

Overnight we spoke to the night nurse who said they had never seen pain in sub Cu sites like this and he might never recover.

Meanwhile, Y2 seems fine....still some D but has eaten and has started on his meds. He weighs 6 lbs.

Today, I spoke to the vet. Y1 is "stable", his temp is down to 101, his stool test was (-), his blood tests were "not bad", and they are able to decrease the fluids in his IV. Hopefully remove it. The vet reiterated he had never seen a dog have pain at the subcutanuous injection sites. However, he did say that he will recover from the pain. He said that the puppy was walking around on his own and ate some baby food. However, overall he is not satisfied with the lethargy.

They want me to c/b again at 3 and possibly keep him for one more night. of course we all want our baby back ASAP.

I realize this is a long post, but you guys are smart and experienced. I wonder if you see any red flags there. I am used to arguing with doctors when it comes to my kids, and I am used to catching stuff the doctors miss. However I need to learn when it comes to vets. Off the top of my head it seems like if this vet had called back sooner and responded about the shaking, we might have caught an issue sooner. And wth with the sub cu fluids? Really, no other dog has shown sensitivity to this? Comments?

Thanks for reading.

WOW! You're being a new mom, looking for direction. Here's my advice, don't wait for answers, ask questions until you get what you want. I liken it to taking active paticipation in your own medical care.

With my first yorkie, I knew nothing. She got very ill and had to be taken to the vets......My vet at the time was not agressive in her treatment, it was we'll try this and see, we'll try that and see. My girl wasn't getting any better, but worse, so I contacted my breeder and asked questions and gave her information on what procedure the vet had taken. Crying and upset I took my girl back into the vets. Explained to him my conversation with my breeder and he hem and hawed, his demenor was that he thought my breeder was nuts.....I began screaming at him that nothing he was doing was improving my girls health and that he didn't do as my breeder suggested that I would take her else where. Guess what he did what I asked and within a half a day she had improved. Needless to say I went on the hunt for a new vet, one that didn't feel threatened when I asked questions. One that understood that I knew my dogs better than anyone, one that I could form a partnership with.

[Ellie May]

My concern would be the pain and where it is coming from. Is the vet sure it is coming from the subq site? Or is it around the neck? Or spine?

And to answer your question, yes, if my dog was shaking and shrieking in pain, I'd want a vet to talk to me right away...

[Ladymom]

Lady has had subq fluids a lot in her 14 years and I have even learned to do them myself. I know that with anything that punctures the skin, there is always a risk of infection. Is that what the vet think caused the pain & fever?

One of the red flags for me is that you just adopted both these dogs in the past few weeks. For that reason, it's hard to know what health issues they may have brought with them besides giardia.

My vet has told me to rest Lady's tummy for 12 hours after a tummy upset, but never 24.

It would be helpful to see the results of the bloodwork. "Not bad" doesn't tell you much.

One of the most important qualities in any vet is someone you feel comfortable with and who answers your questions. Although it sounds like like this vet is doing everything right since this is a new patient with an unknown background, if you don't feel like you are getting answers, you might want to look for a new vet.

[ladyjane]

Everyone has given you vet advice. MY question is what rescue did you get those pups from?
I am horrified when I hear stories like this because this is NOT what should happen when a person adopts from rescue.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by newyorki

Yeah, it's true. They are trained professionals. Originally I would have thought vets, for whatever reason seem more dedicated and less mercenary than MD's..one reason would be, insurance companies do not control their practices like they do with MD's.

Thanks for the POV. I was wondering if I should have been more pro-active in some way..like it's a known fact that sub cu injections hurt Yorkies or something. I don't expect you to archive my posts (smile) but this is the same guy who expressed surprise that my Yorkie could ever be aggressive or territorial.

thx so much.

I have worked with so many vets over the years. I have seen ALL kinds! Most of them have a specific field that interests them more than others. I don't know that I have ever come across one that I didn't trust my pets with. However, I will say that to many vets a dog is a dog is a dog and all dogs are treated the same. That is unless they see a lot of a specific type of dog say Yorkies, or maybe they raise Yorkies themselves so they may know the small details about Yorkies that say maybe another vet at another clinic sees more Labradors or Pit Bulls, and they know more about the small details of a large breed of dog. They do not learn all breed specific details in school it is very broad based.

I recently asked my vet about hypogylcemia because I thought my last puppy was having blood sugar attacks, and she told me that my puppy was by weight (3lbs) and by age (16 weeks) old enough or big enough to be regulating her glycemic levels herself. The week after my visit she had an attack. My vet knows large breed dogs and does not see many small ones. Do I hold this against her. NO not at all because we did discuss what I was seeing and she informed me of several things I could do if it were to happen again. With the internet, and especially this site, I think pet owners (have the potential) to be more educated about their own pets than ever before, and vets expect their clients to come to them with questions on what they read, and if you have ideas for treatment by all means express them. Heck, I even ask questions that many people would be embarrassed to ask. I want to know their view!

[brendah]

A good vet just like a human dr. is hard to come by.I almost lost my first yorkie girl (was a horible vet experience) I was new to yorkies and still felt like I was more familer with them (hypoglygemia) then he was. I interviewed and tried 3 different vets befor I finally found the one I have. She is wonderful she also has yorkies(a huge bennifit) I have to drive my furbabies 45 minutes to the vet but it is all well worth it. I do have a local vet that I like but her fees are very expensive (I go there for emergencies)
Make sure to interview your vet. If they have nothing to hide and want your business they will take the time to meet you and your furbabies. Ask a lot of questions but I try not to take up much of their time(I realize they are usuallly busy)
You can usually "feel the out" within a few minutes
I hope this helps you

[chestermama]

I personally would look for a new vet un less something changes, they dont seem to concerned and are not very proactive just whatever it sounds like and dragging their feet, I would not feel comfortable with this info you have given. I hope they are both better soon

[newyorki]

Thanks for all the replies. I was most concerned that someone would mention a condition that was not being tested for and I should have demanded.


I was a little put off when the vet told me yesterday he was keeping my dog another night in the hospital, and he "doesn't have the slightest idea" what is causing the D. He said he would probably release him today, this afternoon, but I am going to push for morning/noontime just so we can get him back and settled, and possibly have time for a second opinion if necessary.

I did interview another vet office over the phone. It will be a process, and I want to get it right this time, but I'd like to find a new vet when things settle down.

Mostly, I take issue with the fact that they are giving me vague answers like "the bloodwork seemed pretty good", rather than 'we tested for X y and z". I had to drag it out of him whether they had tested for liver function, kidney function, etc.

Thx -- will update

[newyorki]

As promised, here is my update.

My puppy is home now. I pretty much had to bust him out of the vet's. The vet called yesterday and said he would probably be able to come home today, but not early. He said his temp was down, he was eating, less lethargic, no D, etc. Again, "no idea" what might be going on with him.

We spoke to the night nurse a few times to confirm he was improving. I called for the vet at 9 am , but 2h later no call back.

This morning, I just got sick of waiting and not getting answers. I decided that is he is OK enough to come home at all he can come home now, and if he's not OK I want time to consider second opinions within today's work day. So I just broke him out of there against their wishes. It just seemed like they would keep him there indefinitely, racking up the bills and the heartache. It may sound foolish and rash, but I have raised 2 kids for the last 11 years who have had some major, major health issues, and the philosophy has always been: people recover better at home with love and comfort. I have a college degree in physiology - OK it's just a bachelor's but still...several times my kids have been sprung from the hospital early or allowed to stay home, because my pediatrician recognizes that I'm not a total dunce and can follow instructions. I just didn't feel like I was getting the same courtesy from the vet.

I also collected my pets' medical records on the way out. I am not sure what my next move was going to be, but I made it clear to the office that I did not appreciate boutique prices coupled with K Mart service.

Eventually the vet called me at home and begrudgingly admitted it was OK to have taken him. He is sleeping on my lap right now. The puppy, not the vet. :-P Something just isn't sitting right with this vet practice and me.

Thanks for reading and for your guidance.

[kjc]

Yes you need to find a vet that can answer your questions to your satisfaction, and that you feel comfortable with, and whom you feel you can trust. If you do not or can not develop this relationship, your dog's life will be at risk.

[newyorki]

Thanks. I would have thought it might be a bit easier to find a vet. Of course, the doggiedo always gets real in a hurry when there is a problem.

Happy to report his ears are back UP this morning. Yesterday he was still a little weak and his signature perky ears were drooping. He is being pampered and spoiled beyond belief, we are all so relieved to have him back.