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Old 08-28-2009, 01:47 PM   #1
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Default any liver shunt experts?

I need to find out some info about liver shunt and the internet hasn't , for once been that helpful.
You see I was walking my yorkie with my sisters yorkieand her chiahuah 3 days ago when her chi just threw up out of the blue. Shes a year old and was playing with the 2 yorkies. After she was sick she couldn't stand properly and my sistter picked her up quick and then her eyes started to glaze over and she went floppy.
I for one thought she was dead, we rang a taxi and she rushed her to the vets. They put her on a drip and cool pads and took bloods.Her temp was very high and then it dipped too low.She stayed in overnight and the following day she seems to have made a full recovery.
Bloods came back and they have mentioned heat exhaustion or liver shunt .It was quite a cool day and we gave her water to drink during the walk as well as the other 2 dogs,and when i read up on liver shunt it didn't seem to sound like what happened to her.
The truth be told I don't think the vets are sure. I know this isn't about a yorkie but liver shunt is quite common in them and was hoping someone may read this and think yes its poss or no it isn't lol.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:55 PM   #2
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www.livershunt,com and The University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine - Liver Shunt Research

A bile acid test would be the next test to have done. This will give the vet a clearer picture of how the dog's liver is actually functioning. Dogs with LS normally seizure within 1/2 hour of eating. Has that ever happened? Some don't have any symptoms, so vet testing is the only way to go on this.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #3
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no this has never happened. She has been a perfectly normal 1 year old dog. Ive read about the clummisiness that shunt is related to and no she has shown none of this.
Can it strike out of the blue like this?
They want to do more bloods now that she is back to normal to see what that shows but they sound baffled.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:50 PM   #4
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A bile acids test should be done if the vet is at all concerned that it is LS.
It can come out of nowhere...

Throwing up and going floppy could mean so many things though.
For safety and peace of mind, I'd consider going to an internist.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:00 PM   #5
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Yes it can just happen. There are congenital shunts (from birth) and they can get acquired shunts which just grow at anytime. Or it could be MVD MVD. The only way to tell is to have the bloodwork done. Both diseases can be managed with medications and special diets, a low protein diet. Some shunts can be surgically fixed by placement of a band around the shunt that gradually closes it off in 3-6 weeks. Then the pup is monitored with bloodwork 3-4 times a year. Just do one step at a time. Some shunts are bigger or smaller, inside the liver or outside and it all depends on how the dog is handling it. Once the Bile Acids Test is done, if the result shows decreased liver function, you may have a choice of surgery or medication. Further testing would be neccessary to determine if the shunt is operable or not. If you choose no further testing and want to try the medication route to see how she does, that would be acceptable. Dogs can live a long, normal life with this disease, on the meds.

Then, again, it could be a seizure disorder, or she may have aspirated some vomit when she threw up, causing a lack of oxygen. Medications can affect liver test values. it's impossible to say without the bloodwork. What they saw was what state her liver was in at that exact moment in time when the blood was drawn. The Bile Acids test gives more information, and if it were my dog,I would at the least have the BA test done to rule out liver problems. First they drawn a blood sample after a 8-12 hour fast. Then they feed the dog a fatty, high protein meal. Then 2 hours later, they draw another sample. They compare these results with normal values to determine if the liver is functioning properly or not. With a liver shunt, some blood bypasses the liver and goes directly to the heart or the brain. That can cause neurological problems, clumsiness as you had mentioned, and or seizures.
Why did the dog have a high temperature? Something going on in her tummy? That can also cause seizures on it's own. So you still don't know any more then when we started. My apologies. This is a tricky disease to diagnose on behavior alone. Could she have eaten anything toxic?
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May View Post
A bile acids test should be done if the vet is at all concerned that it is LS.
It can come out of nowhere...

Throwing up and going floppy could mean so many things though.
For safety and peace of mind, I'd consider going to an internist.

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Old 08-28-2009, 10:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie mad View Post
no this has never happened. She has been a perfectly normal 1 year old dog. Ive read about the clummisiness that shunt is related to and no she has shown none of this.
Can it strike out of the blue like this?
They want to do more bloods now that she is back to normal to see what that shows but they sound baffled.
yes my friend has a liver shunt surgery survivor and her dog had no symptoms and only knew about it when they did bile acids -- alt was normal too so when they did bile acids he was over 500 and he had a shunt and it was surgically repaired -- dr tobias at university of tennessee is the best with this so if it is and you need surgery she does it for 1200 the cheapest and is the best there is in these small dogs
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May View Post
A bile acids test should be done if the vet is at all concerned that it is LS.
It can come out of nowhere...

Throwing up and going floppy could mean so many things though.
For safety and peace of mind, I'd consider going to an internist.
100% agree see an internal medicine specialist
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc View Post
Yes it can just happen. There are congenital shunts (from birth) and they can get acquired shunts which just grow at anytime. Or it could be MVD MVD. The only way to tell is to have the bloodwork done. Both diseases can be managed with medications and special diets, a low protein diet. Some shunts can be surgically fixed by placement of a band around the shunt that gradually closes it off in 3-6 weeks. Then the pup is monitored with bloodwork 3-4 times a year. Just do one step at a time. Some shunts are bigger or smaller, inside the liver or outside and it all depends on how the dog is handling it. Once the Bile Acids Test is done, if the result shows decreased liver function, you may have a choice of surgery or medication. Further testing would be neccessary to determine if the shunt is operable or not. If you choose no further testing and want to try the medication route to see how she does, that would be acceptable. Dogs can live a long, normal life with this disease, on the meds.

Then, again, it could be a seizure disorder, or she may have aspirated some vomit when she threw up, causing a lack of oxygen. Medications can affect liver test values. it's impossible to say without the bloodwork. What they saw was what state her liver was in at that exact moment in time when the blood was drawn. The Bile Acids test gives more information, and if it were my dog,I would at the least have the BA test done to rule out liver problems. First they drawn a blood sample after a 8-12 hour fast. Then they feed the dog a fatty, high protein meal. Then 2 hours later, they draw another sample. They compare these results with normal values to determine if the liver is functioning properly or not. With a liver shunt, some blood bypasses the liver and goes directly to the heart or the brain. That can cause neurological problems, clumsiness as you had mentioned, and or seizures.
Why did the dog have a high temperature? Something going on in her tummy? That can also cause seizures on it's own. So you still don't know any more then when we started. My apologies. This is a tricky disease to diagnose on behavior alone. Could she have eaten anything toxic?
Eating something toxic was our first thought at the time.Her sick was orange with lumps in it and it was a matter of seconds before she coudn't stand alone. My poor sister checked her garden and did come across passion fruit which we have read up on and is toxic apparently its the seeds, so with the sick being orange too that was our diagnosis until the vet mentioned LS.I guess time will tell. She is due for more blood work next week and I shall tell her to mention the bile test
Thankyou guys for your help , I kow this thread wan't about a yorkie but a dogs a dog right. Ill keep you posted if you like.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:26 PM   #10
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Definitely keep us updated ... We'll be praying for the little one ...
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