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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Pancreatitis (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/182197-pancreatitis.html)

dwerten 08-24-2009 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMySissy (Post 2770514)
I forgot to add that if this test was done in-house, it could have just been a lipase level. In-house results are definitely faster, but not complete enough information to accurately diagnosis. To do a full SPEC cPL, it needs to have these four levels measured: cPL, TLI, Folate and Cobalimine. These four are equally important numbers and if the cPL is abnormal, you still need to know the others for a complete diagnosis as those numbers can change the dianogsis from pancreatitis to many other things. If it is really something else and just treated for pancreatitis, you're going to continue to have issue after rissue after issue.
the spec cpli is for pancreatitis and it is done in house now there is a snap with idexx lab for this so probably what they did. the tli is a separate test which you have to add on and that is determine if epi as i have done that add on as well and i believe the other two are additional add ons but never have done those other two just the tli and cpli for dex and in feb both came back normal thank goodness and now will only do cpli as he does not have any symptoms of epi so not a real concern for us at this point

dwerten 08-24-2009 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMySissy (Post 2770516)
This food would also be bad for pancreatitis as pork is a major no-no for pancreatitis - prescription diet or not!!!
yep and why i get SO MAD that vets still prescribe hill's I/D as it is on the list for pancreatitis yet it made dex relapse and get worse after 5 days on it :(

ladyjane 08-24-2009 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 2770654)
L/D is for liver, K/D is for kidney, I/D is suppose to be for intestinal but is HORRIBLE - made dex relapse and get real sick and ims said to never give a pancreatic dog this EVER. It has pork in it -- for pancreatitis and for liver mvd purina ha is good as soy is hydrolized and low in protein and it is very low in fat
I prefer the Purina Rx foods over Hill's Science Diet....but, I prefer cooking over all of them. My Cody has renal and pancreatic issues and I believe that he is alive today because of home cooking ... the recipes that I got from the vet/nutitionist at A&M.
Oh...and chicken is high in protein...I saw someone recommend it for low protein.

dwerten 08-24-2009 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy Princess (Post 2770551)
No kidding...I think that's what put Izzy in round #2 of attacks last November. She was put on Science Diet W/D from November (first attack) through January..then the vet said she was stable enough to up her protein/fat to the Science Diet I/D and wham...by February she had attack #2 because of the pork..then we put her back on W/D and still not good because 3/17 another attack and then 5/27 another attack until we finally figured out what was wrong.

Pork is a definite no-no for pancreatitis..now some on my other groups say chicken is bad but we never had that problem with Izzy. For her is was pork and flax.

Keep with the no pork, low fat and low protein.
dex has never had a problem with chicken either for over a year now i give him that as a treat and no issues - now give him a piece of yam the size of my pinky finger nail and all heck broke loose so he is back on lock down with purina ha poor guy but you know what he does not even notice the difference as he gets just as excited about his kibble as he does chicken lol poor guy -- i am thankful my two yorkies are piggies now my maltese she is the slowest eater lol

LuvMySissy 08-24-2009 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 2770661)
the spec cpli is for pancreatitis and it is done in house now there is a snap with idexx lab for this so probably what they did. the tli is a separate test which you have to add on and that is determine if epi as i have done that add on as well and i believe the other two are additional add ons but never have done those other two just the tli and cpli for dex and in feb both came back normal thank goodness and now will only do cpli as he does not have any symptoms of epi so not a real concern for us at this point
The other two levels that are done with the SPEC cPL full test are Folate and Cobalamine. These, in conjunction with the TLI and cPL are what can differentiate from pancreatitis to other much more severe intestinal issues such as PLE. And if EPI is present, treatment is much different than standard pancreatitis as well. cPL and TLI are separate tests, so if a cPLi is done, this doesn't necessarily show the same results.

High levels of folate indicate a bacterial problem in the intestines - many times yeast treatments are needed. A low cobalamine means they need B12 injections.

Way too many times vets use the diagnosis of pancreatitis as a catch-all for any unexplained vomiting, diarrhea. I'm not advocating unnecessary testing, but a full SPEC cPL can save lots of money over ultrasounds and other more invasive biopsy tests.

I would highly recommend the TLI, folate and cobalamine tests if pancreatitis symptoms continue....

LuvMySissy 08-24-2009 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2770667)
I prefer the Purina Rx foods over Hill's Science Diet....but, I prefer cooking over all of them. My Cody has renal and pancreatic issues and I believe that he is alive today because of home cooking ... the recipes that I got from the vet/nutitionist at A&M.
Oh...and chicken is high in protein...I saw someone recommend it for low protein.
I am also an advocate of home cooking. The prescription foods contain way too many fillers, sugars and known carcinogens. But - whatever they will eat and whatever works.....

ARCHIE 08-24-2009 12:32 PM
Oh no. Just seeing this Donna. Didn't see you out walking yesterday or today.
Now I know why! Please call if I can help in any way.
You have my #.
Prayer's coming for little Joey. I'm so sorry your dealing with yet another
scary incident.


Hugs,

dwerten 08-24-2009 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMySissy (Post 2770687)
I am also an advocate of home cooking. The prescription foods contain way too many fillers, sugars and known carcinogens. But - whatever they will eat and whatever works.....
me too but big chicken over here lol as dex vomits on alot of things and too scared :( and this purina ha has worked for 3 years and blood work perfect other than a little high on triglycerides in february. Urine, fecal all fine so not willing to risk it after 10k saving his life over a year of him being sick - it was a nightmare and NEVER want to relieve that -- he has ibd in small intestines and very prone to pancreatitis after having it back to back and this disease is expensive to treat so not willing to risk it ever unless he starts not tolerating this food but i do think homecooking is great if the dog does well just too scared after what i have been through with him.

I will have to go back and review his cpli tests as never recall the two others being done you recommended only have seen cpli and tli on his blood work -- will check it out as heck i think i paid for every test known to dog lollllll

Lolasmom1211 08-24-2009 04:55 PM
Oh my gosh...I am just now seeing this about poor, little Joey. Any news today? How is he feeling. I just can't imagine you get over one hurdle with his liver shunt and now this! Poor little baby. I so hope that he improved over night. I am having Lola's BAT redone next week, and then I will start to homecook for her, also. Maybe that is the answer....to know exactly what we are giving these fragile little babies. I hope you get a chance to post and let us know how he is doing - in the meantime we are sending lots of prayers and Yorkie kisses your way! ~~~ Valerie, "Lola & Harley"

drabinowitz43 08-24-2009 05:28 PM
Thank you everyone for your help and support. Joey is feeling better today, but getting him to eat has been hard. He doesn't cry out as much in pain (hardly at all) when I pick him up gently. He's drinking water and running around with Sadie. I am really upset because the vet at Oradell specifically told me to feed Joey the canned K/D when he wouldn't eat the canned L/D or the RC kibble. Now I think this may have contributed to this episode since it had become his favorite food, over the NB vegetarian kibble. Right now I am back to the RC LS hepatic 14. I mixed in little lowfat cottage cheese to get him to eat it, but I don't feel this is the right diet. I left a message with Oradell and my vet about ordering the Purina HA. If all else fails I will homecook. My poor little Joey, he's been through so much.

drabinowitz43 08-24-2009 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 2769921)
were these high as if so that is all tied to white blood cell count which is infection and that happens with pancreatitis as the dog gets toxic and if severe enough the pancreas will eat other organs -- I know it sounds gross but that is why it is so serious. How is your dog acting? any pain?
The PLT, LYM and MONO were all high. The EOS was low. Should the vet be running more tests?

drabinowitz43 08-24-2009 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 2770496)
Oh my darling Joey....

Donna, I am so sorry for your baby boy. I know you are trying to do everything right for him...

I don't know much about Pancreatitis, but the gals that are posting do, so I am glad you are getting good advice.

K/D is no good for LS babies. It has pork or pork fat or pork liver in it (I can't remember exactly), but it is no good for LS babies. :(

I think I gave you Dr. W the nutritionist from Cornells info :confused: He is great and could help you with a homemade diet that would work hand in hand with Joey's Liver Shunt issues and the Pancreatitis. Let me know if you need it again, or anything else :)

I hope he feels better soon :(
Thanks, Nicole. It's been a rough go lately for poor Joey. I think I still have Dr. W's phone number, but if not, I'll get in touch with you. Right now finances are tricky. I am going to try the Purina HA food if my vet can order it for me. Waiting for him to call me back.

LuvMySissy 08-24-2009 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drabinowitz43 (Post 2771369)
The PLT, LYM and MONO were all high. The EOS was low. Should the vet be running more tests?
I would strongly suggest running the full SPEC cPL as it sounds like they did just the inhouse basic. Knowing the folate, cobalamine and TLI levels can make a big difference in treatment. And, with the cPL itself, "abnormal" isn't good enough - it makes a difference it if it high or low in the diagnosis process.

With regard to the vet and food, most vets know squat about food - including the prescription diets. They only know what they are told by company reps for the stuff they stock and of course it's all going to be good!!!!

It does sound like a nutritional consult is needed. Food is an important part of managing both LS and pancreatitis/digestive issues. Home cooking isn't tremendously difficult to do and if you make it in bulk and freeze you only need to do it once a month or so.

Glad to hear Joey is a little better as well. How are you holding up?

dwerten 08-24-2009 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drabinowitz43 (Post 2771366)
Thank you everyone for your help and support. Joey is feeling better today, but getting him to eat has been hard. He doesn't cry out as much in pain (hardly at all) when I pick him up gently. He's drinking water and running around with Sadie. I am really upset because the vet at Oradell specifically told me to feed Joey the canned K/D when he wouldn't eat the canned L/D or the RC kibble. Now I think this may have contributed to this episode since it had become his favorite food, over the NB vegetarian kibble. Right now I am back to the RC LS hepatic 14. I mixed in little lowfat cottage cheese to get him to eat it, but I don't feel this is the right diet. I left a message with Oradell and my vet about ordering the Purina HA. If all else fails I will homecook. My poor little Joey, he's been through so much.
if you do home cook do dr dodds liver cleansing diet and if you need that i can pm it to you as we work with her and many liver shunt and mvd babies do real well on it

dwerten 08-24-2009 06:59 PM
if you want i can ship you a sample of it to see if your baby will eat it before buying a huge bag from vet - we get the 8lb bag and it is about $30


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