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08-17-2009, 03:24 AM | #1 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vermont, USA
Posts: 15
| Possible liver shunt help please?!?! Okay, I don't really know where to start... (Sorry in advance about the novel) I am new to this forum, and I don't actually own a Yorkie. I own a Miniature Pinscher, but I have been doing a lot of research about Liver Shunts and your forum comes up a lot in my searches so I figured I might get a lot of help from you guys/gals. My fiance and I got 2 mins pins recently, they have been with us for almost a month now and my fiance's pup has gained just over a lb. but my pup hasn't even gained a 1/4 of a lb yet. When we were in the vets about a week ago, she was weighed and she weighs 2.7 lbs. Myself, my fiance as well as the vet suspect a liver shunt because she has a lot of the symptoms. They are as follows: She hasn't really grown She rubs her head/muzzle a lot with her paws She shivers A LOT Drinks a lot/urinates a lot UTI already (Vet says thats not normal) She stares off/focuses on something & her head kind of bobbles/shakes The other day she seemed like she was chasing her tail but she wasn't she was just running in circles She seems like she is ALWAYS falling over (but not really stumbly) I'm looking for information on foods, testing, supplements, and any advice that you can give really (as like I said she is only 2.7 lbs). I have been so worried about my little girl & I have been crying for days over this. Thank you in advance! Sheina |
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08-17-2009, 04:52 AM | #2 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: West Lafayette, IN, USA
Posts: 279
| Welcome to YT. I don't have a furbaby with Liver Shunt myself, but I know so many people on the forum do and I'm sure they will offer you lots of advice and support. Just from reading other's threads- it seems a low-protein diet is recommended and a lot of people go to the University of Tennesse to have the surgery I think. Do you notice that your puppy's symptoms are related to when she eats or eating something high in protein? Has your vet done a bile acid test? There are so many knowledgeable members here- I know they will help you out. I think everyone here will welcome you whether your baby is a Yorkie or not. I'm so sorry your baby has been sick and that you have been so worried. I know how scary it is to have our little ones not doing well and not knowing exactly what is wrong or how to get them better. I will have you both in my thoughts and prayers.
__________________ Helen, Bella and Baci Last edited by Bellaandhelen; 08-17-2009 at 04:54 AM. Reason: spelling/grammer |
08-17-2009, 05:53 AM | #3 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Welcome to YorkieTalk. What has been done so far? Testing: A full blood panel, urinalysis, possible urine culture and bile acids test need to be done immediately. How old is she? The problem with doing a bile acids test now is the liver isn't fully developed, so the results may not be accurate. It is best to wait until 20 weeks for accurate results. On the other hand, you need the results now, so just be aware that you may need to repeat the test later. If all is normal and your vet doesn't know what is going on, I'd see a specialist. If the bile acids are high, you will have to start talking about Protein C testing (blood test sent to Cornell) and scintography. A lot of people skip ultrasound because it's only 60-80% accurate at detecting a shunt, but because the bladder is involved in this case, it may be a good diagnostic tool. If it turns out to be an extrahepatic shunt, surgery will probably be recommended and should be done. If it's microvascular dysplasia (small shunting throughout the liver), no surgery can be done and medical management is needed.The best places for surgery are University of Tennessee (very cheap compared to most everywhere else) and Cornell. UT has an excellent safety record. I would avoid in-state hospitals/specialists that charge double the price without the safety record of one of the better places... Low protein diets are good but low protein diets with the right type of protein should be the focus. Red meat and organ meat are some of the worst. They tend to produce ammonium (toxin) and that builds up and causes hepatic encephalopathy (neurologic symptoms). Hills canned L/D and royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 are two choices. Hills dry L/D and Hills K/D canned and dry are not recommended because they may be low in protein, but it isn't the right type. Non meat proteins are best (like cottage cheese). Eggs and sometimes fish can be used also. If feeding kibble, you should add equal parts water because moisture is very important for these dogs, especially those with bladder involvement. Supplements that should be giving are SAMEe (Denosyl, Vetri DMG), milk thistle (Hepatosupport or human milk thistle giving with vitamin e) and lactulose. Others that may be good are fish oil and extra vitamin e. I think the first part of this came out a little funny. Sorry about that. I just woke up.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
08-17-2009, 06:23 AM | #4 | |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas
Posts: 664
| Quote:
they have been so helpful with my journey through this Liver Shunt issue with my Yorkie baby. They have helped with diet and any other questions you might possible have concerning Liver Shunt. Good Luck! | |
08-17-2009, 06:34 PM | #5 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: KS
Posts: 3,289
| I'm so sorry that your one baby isn't doing well. Love Min Pins. They are very regal doggies who basically have an attitude like Yorkies.
__________________ Joanne Eli ChipperEva Snowboy Rosie(R.I.P. 1996-July 29, 2013) Cocoa(R.I.P 1998-April 26, 2012): |
08-17-2009, 08:29 PM | #6 | |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
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08-17-2009, 08:30 PM | #7 |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
| oh and if my dog had liver shunt i would fly to dr tobias at university of tennessee for surgery as she is the best so if it does result in this do not trust anyone but her she is the best |
08-17-2009, 09:25 PM | #8 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vermont, USA
Posts: 15
| Thank You all First off I would like to thank everyone for the nice welcomes even though I don't own a Yorkie. Bellaandhelen- I've been reading really nice things about the University of Tennessee, they seem like they are a really good place to take your babies. As far as the symptoms, there really isn't a difference in before/after she eats it kind of comes and goes throughout the day. I have noticed it happened more often when she was getting treats that are high in protein before I did more research and realized that was bad. She hasn't had a Bile Acid test yet, but she will soon definitely. Thank you for the well wishes Ellie May- There really isn't anything that has been done up to this point, i has really only been about 4-5 days since we have all started suspecting LS. I did call my vet today to see if she would call in the lactulose because at this point I would rather be treating her as if she has a liver shunt. I will hopefully be able to get a low-protein food for her soon, which is the best in your opinion? The SD or the RC? Would I mix in the cottage cheese with her kibble? If so, how much would you give a 2.7lb pup? I have been giving her smaller meals about 5 times a day. Dwerten- Thank you for the advice. If she does need the surgery, I will definitely keep her in mind as that is about 15 hours away. |
08-18-2009, 05:10 AM | #9 | |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
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08-18-2009, 05:26 AM | #10 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sterling Heights, Mi
Posts: 318
| Quote:
I had a dorkie that was diagnosed with multiple liver shunts, Ellie Mae has hit right on the nose. They will perform ultrasounds, bile tests, complete blood work. Hills L/D works great as does the milk thistle. There is medication they can give for your baby to take with the possibility of surgery. They must maintain a low protein diet, this is VERY important. My heart and prayers go out to you and your baby.
__________________ Shannon , Prussia, Miracle, , Rebel and Lady July 7, 2009 to Aug. 19, 2009 | |
08-18-2009, 06:26 AM | #11 |
Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,247
| I agree with all the info above. U of Tenn is one of the BEST. However, since you are in Vermont, Cornell University *may* be a better option for you, they are just as good. There is another Yahoo Group, whom follow alot of Dr. Center's recommendations and advice, alot of the members are in the Northeast as well: DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease Best Wishes |
08-18-2009, 06:29 AM | #12 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I think if the bile acids come back high and you are still dealing with circling and the like, then lactulose should be tried because those are neurological symptoms. L/D canned and RC 14 kibble are both okay. Some seem to think the RC is a better quality food. I have no opinion on it really. Whatever your pup will eat... The cottage cheese thing could be used in the case of wanting to homecook. You could add it to the kibble, but since you're adding protein, it should be done slowly if at all. When symptoms recur, the amount has to be reduced. This is something that your vet needs to help decide though, because a pup's nutritional needs are much different than an adult's and there could be deficiencies if using an rx diet.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
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liver shunt, min pin, portosystemic shunt, puppy |
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