Moose has Luxating Patella AND Possible Liver Shunt! Help and advice please!

[LBH]

Hi Everyone,

Moose went to the vet yesterday after a couple days of strange behavior that we couldn't seem to diagnose. He wasn't really putting his right back leg down- just kind of scooting it across the floor. Our vet quickly diagnosed luxating patella in his back right leg and said that he has very loose kneecaps on all legs, especially the back two. Of course all we ever want is for our babies to be happy and healthy and I was so upset to hear this news. The vet is not optomistic about Moose being able to function normally without surgery; we are giving him 2 weeks of rest/confinement to see if the kneecaps will stive give him trouble after they have been allowed to rest. The good side is that he doesn't seem to be in visible pain, he just isn't his normal active self, and this of course inhibits his ability to run and play.

The vet also wants to conduct a bile acid test next week just to rule out a liver shunt. Moose does have frequent bouts of tummy upset (as you have probably seen from my previous threads!) but this is usually due to the mischevious little guy eating something he shouldn't. He doesn't exhibit any other symptoms associated with liver shunts at all, but the vet is concerned with frequent g.i. upset and wants to rule it out once and for all.

I have spent hours reading this forum and all of the threads about luxating patella and whether or not to do the surgery based on what stage the condition is in (we have not diagnosed the stage yet, Moose will be back for x rays to do this). So I am just looking for stories from yorkie owners who have very small babies (Moose is only 4lbs!) who have either had the surgery or elected not to, and how things have turned out. I am extremely worried about how risky and dangerous the surgery is for such a small dog. Please reply if you have been through this and can share your story; I would appreciate it SO much! Thank you!

[TLC]

Try not to worry to hard. LP and LS are not a death sentence.

Get some Cosiquin and start to give this daily (as per in the instructions). This is good for now and the long run. IMO - Grade 3 and 4 should have surgery to stop the luxation. If he isn't using his legs or limping or carrying them, this is pain and discomfort, so I wouldn't let it go for too long. At 4 lbs, he will be ok. My Roxy was 4 lbs 9 oz. and had both rear legs done at the same time. My advice is to go to a Board Cert. Ortho Specialist.

Let us know what the BAT results are and we can help guide you from there

[Rockdiva]

I am going through the same thing. Wookie has had it since he was small, but wasn't severe. He has had a couple times when it has been aggravated and was worse than other times. Sometimes you can't even tell it for months. Right now he is in a stage of it bothering him and I am getting worried too. So I am right there with ya. I have 2 vets that I go to, a local one that I really like and then my hollistic/conventional vet. He believes in using alternate methods when possible but knows there is a necessity for conventional methods too. So when I start getting told by one that he needs surgery, I will definitely get the others opinion first. I would recommend you definitely get a second opinion before surgery. It can't hurt to have it...

[LBH]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Where do you get Cosequin? Is that something I should discuss with the vet before giving to Moose? I have a call in to the vet so I am waiting on a reply.

Also..do you have to be reffered to an orthopedic surgeon? I have found a few that specialize in orthopedic surgeries from the ACVS website for small animals but they say that they are a referral-only private practices. Just curious as to how to find the best place for the surgery if we do decide to do it. Thanks again!

[TLC]

You can actually get Cosequin from your Vet or online.

Yes, your Vet will need to refer you to an Ortho Specialist.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by TLC

Try not to worry to hard. LP and LS are not a death sentence.

Get some Cosiquin and start to give this daily (as per in the instructions). This is good for now and the long run. IMO - Grade 3 and 4 should have surgery to stop the luxation. If he isn't using his legs or limping or carrying them, this is pain and discomfort, so I wouldn't let it go for too long. At 4 lbs, he will be ok. My Roxy was 4 lbs 9 oz. and had both rear legs done at the same time. My advice is to go to a Board Cert. Ortho Specialist.

Let us know what the BAT results are and we can help guide you from there

I agree. Get a referral to a board certified orthopedic vet. If Moose's patellas are graded 3 or 4, he will need surgery. The sooner he gets it the better as LP's put stress on other joints that can lead to crippling arthritis. Extremely bowed front legs are a common side effect. Once this has happened and the joints have become arthritic, pain pills and acupuncture are the only way to deal with the pain.

Good for your vet for suggesting a BAT. According to Dr. Center, all Yorkies should routinely have one as soon as they reach 20 weeks since they are so common in the breed. I wish more vets were aware of Dr. Center's protocol.

[LBH]

Thanks for your help and advice guys! I just got some Cosequin from the vet and am going to start him on that today. Hopefully that will help his joints some The vet says it really takes a few weeks for it start kicking in though. I have found 4 board certified orthopedic surgeons that specialize in very small animals in the state of FL, so I will definitely ask for a referall for the surgery.

I'm sure I will have many more questions to come if we go ahead with the surgery soon so I'll be back with updates and more questions- thanks again for your advice!

I'll also post the results of BAT next week when the results are in, thanks!

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by LBH

Thanks for your help and advice guys! I just got some Cosequin from the vet and am going to start him on that today. Hopefully that will help his joints some The vet says it really takes a few weeks for it start kicking in though. I have found 4 board certified orthopedic surgeons that specialize in very small animals in the state of FL, so I will definitely ask for a referall for the surgery.

I'm sure I will have many more questions to come if we go ahead with the surgery soon so I'll be back with updates and more questions- thanks again for your advice!

I'll also post the results of BAT next week when the results are in, thanks!

Sounds like a good plan!

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by LBH

Hi Everyone,

Moose went to the vet yesterday after a couple days of strange behavior that we couldn't seem to diagnose. He wasn't really putting his right back leg down- just kind of scooting it across the floor. Our vet quickly diagnosed luxating patella in his back right leg and said that he has very loose kneecaps on all legs, especially the back two. Of course all we ever want is for our babies to be happy and healthy and I was so upset to hear this news. The vet is not optomistic about Moose being able to function normally without surgery; we are giving him 2 weeks of rest/confinement to see if the kneecaps will stive give him trouble after they have been allowed to rest. The good side is that he doesn't seem to be in visible pain, he just isn't his normal active self, and this of course inhibits his ability to run and play.

The vet also wants to conduct a bile acid test next week just to rule out a liver shunt. Moose does have frequent bouts of tummy upset (as you have probably seen from my previous threads!) but this is usually due to the mischevious little guy eating something he shouldn't. He doesn't exhibit any other symptoms associated with liver shunts at all, but the vet is concerned with frequent g.i. upset and wants to rule it out once and for all.

I have spent hours reading this forum and all of the threads about luxating patella and whether or not to do the surgery based on what stage the condition is in (we have not diagnosed the stage yet, Moose will be back for x rays to do this). So I am just looking for stories from yorkie owners who have very small babies (Moose is only 4lbs!) who have either had the surgery or elected not to, and how things have turned out. I am extremely worried about how risky and dangerous the surgery is for such a small dog. Please reply if you have been through this and can share your story; I would appreciate it SO much! Thank you!

my dd has LP 4 in back both legs per xray and the fact they do not manipulate at all is a grade 4 as grade 4 is permanently out and hers are cemented to outside with no manual manipulation. She hurt her leg on doggie stairs and is no longer lifting the leg after 2 months of rest - she only lifted leg the first 1 1/2 days. We had digital xrays done and it shows LP 4 confirmation. I have spoke to orthopedic and 3 dvm and due to dd not being able to tolerate nsaids or antibiotics and what i have discussed with these 4 i will not do any surgery on her. We believe she tore or ruptured her acl which is a possibility with LP dogs. You are best to keep them from twisting and turning chasing balls and jumping on and off things if they have this as much as possible. DD was an avid frisbee player and never had any leg lifting and played 3 hrs a night. When i spoke to ortho he said they will have arthritis whether they have this surgery or not as just like humans you have surgery there is scar tissue and arthritis in joints that have been fixed same with dogs. I will not elect for surgery unless she is continuously lifting the leg ALOT. My dd does get up slow after laying on it a long time but 90% of time is fine with her leg. This surgery is very hard on them and a friend did this surgery recently and dog is now lifting leg again so I my recommendation is unless the dog is in pain, lifting leg, etc i would not recommend surgery in a toy breed.

[dwerten]

oh and my dd is also mvd with post biles below 100 - she is just on low protein diet and never had stomach upset prior to bile acids - vet did them due to medication for her horrible allergies

[dwerten]

Cosequin Reqular Strength

Medial Luxating Patella - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

[dwerten]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...fleanatomy.gif

here is a good pic of the acl and patella

[Patti]

Sorry to hear about the LP and possible MVD. My Cali has grade 4 LP both legs, due to her many health problems, MVD, a lot of serious tummy episodes and bad allergies her vet and I decided to wait and see. She is 4 years old and has never exhibited any discomfort or trouble walking so we will wait and see. This is just the decision we made for Cali and I am in no way saying not to have surgery if vet feels it is safe and necessary. Good luck.

[LBH]

Thanks for all of the advice and info everyone!

Where would I put a thread to ask if anyone has used a Florida surgeon for luxating patella? Just want to find out if anyone has used any of the 4 surgeons that I have researched in case we do go ahead with the surgery.

Has anyone ever been advised to let their puppy rest for a few weeks then decide whether to go ahead with surgery? I hate for Moose to sit here uncomfortable and hurting for another two weeks to wait and see

Also- we are doing the BAT to rule out liver shunts next Tuesday...I guess its best to wait a few days to do x rays to see what stage his luxating patella is since the BAT will be pretty traumatic for him? His patella is laterrally luxating The vet says that she almost always sees medial, hardly ever lateral luxation...anyone's baby had lateral luxation?

Thanks SO much!!

[TLC]

Originally Posted by LBH

Thanks for all of the advice and info everyone!

Where would I put a thread to ask if anyone has used a Florida surgeon for luxating patella? Just want to find out if anyone has used any of the 4 surgeons that I have researched in case we do go ahead with the surgery.

Has anyone ever been advised to let their puppy rest for a few weeks then decide whether to go ahead with surgery? I hate for Moose to sit here uncomfortable and hurting for another two weeks to wait and see

Also- we are doing the BAT to rule out liver shunts next Tuesday...I guess its best to wait a few days to do x rays to see what stage his luxating patella is since the BAT will be pretty traumatic for him? His patella is laterrally luxating The vet says that she almost always sees medial, hardly ever lateral luxation...anyone's baby had lateral luxation?

Thanks SO much!!

My Ortho Vet only needed to do a manual test to determine the Grade of luxation, and by me talking about what and how Roxy acted. We scheduled surgery a few weeks later. The Ortho Vet did the x-rays just before surgery. #1 Roxy was already under sedation, and the Vet just wanted to see if there was anything odd before going in. Once opened, the Vet saw that one of Roxy knee caps was actually facing the wrong way