Protein C Test Results: where do we do from here? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

dwerten · 06-14-2009, 06:01 AM

my vet recommended scintigraphy for my dd as well - i opted against it since dd was not having any symptoms and never has for 5 years and she is on temaril p for allergies which is processed through liver so honestly again only if symptoms would i pursue further testing.

My motto - Treat the dog not the blood work as there can be many variables that affect the blood work

AVMI- Portal Scintigraphy

TLC · 06-14-2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

wait no symptoms of liver shunt ? The bile acids could be high due to gall bladder contraction during blood work. If my dog were not having any symptoms at all i would not push for surgery if it were me -- i would just lower protein to 22% - my dog is mvd -usually shunt is indicative in numbers post bile over 100 but not always - maybe do protein c test but i would not rush to surgery on a dog that is not seizing, not picky eater, not head pressing, not spaced out after eating JMHO

I hate to say it, but it does sound like she has a shunt. Her post bile acids are over 200. Her protein C test was 55%

I think she needs to see Dr. Tobias

dwerten · 06-14-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLC

I hate to say it, but it does sound like she has a shunt. Her post bile acids are over 200. Her protein C test was 55%

I think she needs to see Dr. Tobias

I agree to see her and have tests run but i surely would not do scintigraphy or any surgery on a dog not having any symptoms - sounds to me the tests were not done accurately as they sound baffled ???? how are you baffled if you are confident in what you are doing. Sounds to me they do not and may have not done tests accurately so agree with getting accurate info but i would never put my dog through a surgery unless they were having the symptoms and i would not do scintigraphy either as that is an all day thing with radioactive dye - no way not unless symptoms

Lolasmom1211 · 06-14-2009, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

I agree to see her and have tests run but i surely would not do scintigraphy or any surgery on a dog not having any symptoms - sounds to me the tests were not done accurately as they sound baffled ???? how are you baffled if you are confident in what you are doing. Sounds to me they do not and may have not done tests accurately so agree with getting accurate info but i would never put my dog through a surgery unless they were having the symptoms and i would not do scintigraphy either as that is an all day thing with radioactive dye - no way not unless symptoms

My Lola had no symptoms except being a picky eater. My vet did not want to BAT her because she had no symptoms and was "gaining weight" - although very little. She had NO other symptoms. I insisted that we do the BAT since Liver Shunt is so prevalent in Yorkies. Her numbers were: pre meal 43, post 237 - which definitely pointed towards a shunt. I went directly to Dr. Tobias, from Houston, did the scintigraphy which showed a large, repairable shunt - and had Dr. Tobias do the surgery the next day. Lola is like a different dog. She runs and twirls and plays like she did when we first brought her home...her energy level has increased dramatically and she has gained almost a pound, which for her is about 25 - 30% of her body weight!
Each baby is different, but I feel the surgery has saved Lola's life!

dwerten · 06-14-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

My Lola had no symptoms except being a picky eater. My vet did not want to BAT her because she had no symptoms and was "gaining weight" - although very little. She had NO other symptoms. I insisted that we do the BAT since Liver Shunt is so prevalent in Yorkies. Her numbers were: pre meal 43, post 237 - which definitely pointed towards a shunt. I went directly to Dr. Tobias, from Houston, did the scintigraphy which showed a large, repairable shunt - and had Dr. Tobias do the surgery the next day. Lola is like a different dog. She runs and twirls and plays like she did when we first brought her home...her energy level has increased dramatically and she has gained almost a pound, which for her is about 25 - 30% of her body weight!
Each baby is different, but I feel the surgery has saved Lola's life!

that is great but she was having the symptoms picky eating so i agree for further testing - our vet tests every maltese and yorkie required in his practice for bile acids before he does any meds is how i found out about dd mvd. DD is a pig she eats so fast like she is starving, never head presses, never spaced out, no seizures and he wanted her to have scintigrapy and i said no after joing liver shunt group. she was pre 3 post 73, then 54 then 26 on low protein diet. Now had she had one symptom then yes i would have done further

sounds like energy level on yours was low as well which is probably after eating as well

agree each dog is so different but there has to be at least one symptom in my eyes as i do not believe in putting a dog through a bunch of unnecessary testing as it is very stressful on them and they do not understand

so why i believe in doing your homework first and educating yourself as sadly i have experienced some not so great vets out there that just want to test like crazy. I did this stayed up all night reading everything about liver shunt and joined all the groups and went with what i felt was best as i knew my dog better than any vet who saw her for 15 minutes and looked at her blood work. If i felt any idea she had this from everything i read i would have done further testing and flown to tobias for surgery as i would do anything for my babies and they will only get the best care and why i usually deal with specialists such as dr dodds who does all of our titers and blood work

Lolasmom1211 · 06-14-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

that is great but she was having the symptoms picky eating so i agree for further testing - our vet tests every maltese and yorkie required in his practice for bile acids before he does any meds is how i found out about dd mvd. DD is a pig she eats so fast like she is starving, never head presses, never spaced out, no seizures and he wanted her to have scintigrapy and i said no after joing liver shunt group. she was pre 3 post 73, then 54 then 26 on low protein diet. Now had she had one symptom then yes i would have done further

sounds like energy level on yours was low as well which is probably after eating as well

agree each dog is so different but there has to be at least one symptom in my eyes as i do not believe in putting a dog through a bunch of unnecessary testing as it is very stressful on them and they do not understand

so why i believe in doing your homework first and educating yourself as sadly i have experienced some not so great vets out there that just want to test like crazy. I did this stayed up all night reading everything about liver shunt and joined all the groups and went with what i felt was best as i knew my dog better than any vet who saw her for 15 minutes and looked at her blood work. If i felt any idea she had this from everything i read i would have done further testing and flown to tobias for surgery as i would do anything for my babies and they will only get the best care and why i usually deal with specialists such as dr dodds who does all of our titers and blood work

I am in total agreement with you. Unfortunately, I had a vet that did not want to test and felt my baby was OK. Her BAT numbers definitely pointed towards a shunt and that is the reason I went to Dr Tobias. The specialist here in Houston wanted to run alot of other tests that I felt would have been inconclusive anyway, so I wanted to take her to what we felt like was the best...so off we went to TN. I have had a very hard time finding anyone locally who knows much about liver compromised babies - you have to be so careful. Even though this is becoming more and more of a problem in these small breeds, these vets seem to know so little about how to manage it. It does take a great deal of homework on our part to make sure our babies are taken care of! By the way, I feel the Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support is a great site, too. They have helped me and Lola so much. Good luck with your babies!!! Give them hugs and belly rubs from all of us!!!
~~~Valerie, "Lola & Harley"

dwerten · 06-14-2009, 07:38 AM

that is the group that taught me a ton about it and yes you are so right you have to do your homework and why i joined the groups as not real impressed with vet profession so i go to specialists with anything serious such as orthopedics, opthamologist,dermatologist dentist, internist, and dr dodds who specializes in blood work and titers. Nothing but the best for my kids. I am about 20k in vet bills with my 3 so i have learned the hard way and why i try to help so many others with theirs now. I joined 64 dog groups on yahoo, 4 yorkie and maltese panels and educate myself daily to keep mine healthy as i have lost faith in vets and still needing a good local vet -- I think they are fine for basic stuff like spay, neuter, ear infection but when it gets more serious i get mine to a specialist as you will end up there any way so why not get the answer upfront less costly in the long run

TLC · 06-14-2009, 07:39 AM

this little one also has crystals in her urine.

dwerten · 06-14-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLC

this little one also has crystals in her urine.

yes another reason to test if crystal's in urine - any symptoms i would further test

iwannalollipop2 · 06-15-2009, 01:01 PM

Thank you all for your helpful responses! I left a message with Lacy's vet, and will call again tomorrow about contacting Dr. Tobias--or just do it myself. The reason we didn't rush out to get surgery for Lacy a year ago when we found out about this is the same thing I keep saying: Lacy has NO symptoms. She has as much energy as she did when we brought her home as a puppy, and is a totally happy and healthy dog on the outside. She eats sparingly some days, and seems pretty hungry on others. She runs around and plays constantly, and follows us around the house the rest of the time. The vets say she is a good weight for her stature. She is completely sweet and devoted, and you would not know she is sick without the blood tests. That's why we've put this off, and it's why we're so baffled. I'm hearing mixed things on here about whether we should pursue this further and go see Dr. Tobias, or just continue with our homemade food and medicine. Is it worth going through the stress of more surgery and tests when we have an otherwise healthy dog? Will we be in trouble if we wait and she suddenly gets worse? The tests point to a pretty serious shunt, but how is that possible if Lacy seems fine?

06-14-2009, 07:39 AM	#23
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	this little one also has crystals in her urine. __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

06-14-2009, 06:01 AM	#16
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	my vet recommended scintigraphy for my dd as well - i opted against it since dd was not having any symptoms and never has for 5 years and she is on temaril p for allergies which is processed through liver so honestly again only if symptoms would i pursue further testing. My motto - Treat the dog not the blood work as there can be many variables that affect the blood work AVMI- Portal Scintigraphy

06-14-2009, 07:38 AM	#22
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	that is the group that taught me a ton about it and yes you are so right you have to do your homework and why i joined the groups as not real impressed with vet profession so i go to specialists with anything serious such as orthopedics, opthamologist,dermatologist dentist, internist, and dr dodds who specializes in blood work and titers. Nothing but the best for my kids. I am about 20k in vet bills with my 3 so i have learned the hard way and why i try to help so many others with theirs now. I joined 64 dog groups on yahoo, 4 yorkie and maltese panels and educate myself daily to keep mine healthy as i have lost faith in vets and still needing a good local vet -- I think they are fine for basic stuff like spay, neuter, ear infection but when it gets more serious i get mine to a specialist as you will end up there any way so why not get the answer upfront less costly in the long run

06-15-2009, 01:01 PM	#25
iwannalollipop2 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 28	Thank you all for your helpful responses! I left a message with Lacy's vet, and will call again tomorrow about contacting Dr. Tobias--or just do it myself. The reason we didn't rush out to get surgery for Lacy a year ago when we found out about this is the same thing I keep saying: Lacy has NO symptoms. She has as much energy as she did when we brought her home as a puppy, and is a totally happy and healthy dog on the outside. She eats sparingly some days, and seems pretty hungry on others. She runs around and plays constantly, and follows us around the house the rest of the time. The vets say she is a good weight for her stature. She is completely sweet and devoted, and you would not know she is sick without the blood tests. That's why we've put this off, and it's why we're so baffled. I'm hearing mixed things on here about whether we should pursue this further and go see Dr. Tobias, or just continue with our homemade food and medicine. Is it worth going through the stress of more surgery and tests when we have an otherwise healthy dog? Will we be in trouble if we wait and she suddenly gets worse? The tests point to a pretty serious shunt, but how is that possible if Lacy seems fine?