Vomiting like mad

[llapan]

I am so choked up from reading all the kind and caring posts, I'm having to type through my tears. You people are wonderful, and I'm so thankful for all your advice--lots of it very detailed, very helpful, and extremely encouraging. I especially want to thank Dwerten for the many posts, with very specific and incredibly knowledgeable information about possible diagnoses.

I'll cut to the chase:

I was able to bring Miss Kitty home from the vet's today, after being on an IV from Saturday morning through today. Her blood work values were WAY, WAY, better today:

current BUN: 37 (down from 192. [Normal value is around 25].
(In a previous post, I reported her initial elevated BUN reading as being 400. I don't know where I came up with that figure. I apologize. This time, I had the presence of mind to write down the numbers, so I wouldn't get them mixed up.)

current Creatinine: 0.8 (down from 4.3) [Her current 0.8 is a normal value]

Talk about bouncing back!! As many of your posts suggested, she has fought back valiantly. I'm sure all the heartfelt prayers on her behalf, coming from this forum, helped her turn the corner.

The vet does think that Pancreatitis might be an issue (which is the diagnosis that just about everybody on this forum has been suggesting from the very beginning!!) The vet says we'll need to monitor her blood work for awhile before he can lock in that diagnosis positively. Although Dwerten's posts (and posts of others) gave me specific blood work values to inquire about which are indicative of Pancreatitis, I am ashamed to admit that I can't report on those blood work results. I was at work when the vet called today with the happy news that Miss Kitty was much better and could come home; I didn't have access to the posts in the forum telling me what Pancreatitis items to ask about in the blood work results; and I couldn't linger on the phone, getting all the blood work values, because my boss is not very understanding about personal calls. My husband picked Miss Kitty up from the vets (I so wanted to do that, but I couldn't get off work !!). Therefore, since it is hopeless for me to ask my husband to obtain that kind of information without a specific written list--the bottom line is that I wasn't able to get any more specific information from the vet today.

We are supposed to take Miss Kitty back to the vet on Thursday, for more blood work, and this time I'll be more prepared. Although I'll be sending my husband with Miss Kitty again (I still won't be able to take off work)--this time, I'll send a list of the "Pancreatitis-indicative items for him to ask about, so I can get the blood work results on those items and can report that information back to this very valuable forum.

She is very lively, just like "normal," but I can't believe how much weight she has lost since last Friday morning. If I thought she was frail and had no fat reserve before -- boy, she's a walking skeleton now. But what an appetite she's now showing, and hopefully, that walking skeleton appearance will disappear soon, if she keeps eating like she ate supper tonight!! The vet sent home low protein food for her (in case it is Pancreatitis she is suffering from). It is called Purina EN Gastroenteric Formula. The protein is 6.5% / crude fat is 3%. She scarfed her normal supper serving down in a heartbeat. By "normal," I mean that I gave her the amount I normally do--expecting her to eat a teaspoon or so, then have to be coaxed to eat another teaspoon or so, then turn her nose up at the 3/4 remaining. Instead, tonight, she finished the whole portion without any coaxing, then started sniffing around and under the food bowl trying to find "leavings." After watching her continue to do that for awhile, I decided that if she was that persistent, she must still be really hungry. I gave her another full portion. (I was afraid to give her too much -- afraid that she would start throwing up again, but she was so persistent, I couldn't help myself.) Anyway, she ate almost all of that second portion, then laid down for awhile, then got up and finished that portion. She has kept it all down for over an hour, so I think we're good --that she is not in danger of throwing it back up. She has never eaten that well, the whole time I've had her!!

Concerning your many posts about your fears that I was trusting my sweet Miss Kitty to an incompetent vet--I certainly believe your fears were warranted with respect to the FIRST vet I saw at the clinic. The first vet I saw there was young, inexperienced--but that doesn't excuse him for his failure to do any blood work, or take an x-ray when I first brought Miss Kitty in on Friday. That was totally irresponsible !! I don't think she would have gone so far down, if good vet treatment had been offered at that initial visit.

Anyway, all's well that ends well -- although I realize this hasn't "ended" and that Miss Kitty will need to be monitored very closely, probably for the rest of her (hopefully) very long life. I think I can trust the second vet I saw at the clinic--one of the top small animal vets there (there is one other vet at that clinic that's considered to be "his equal" or maybe slightly above him. Anyway, that second vet did all of the tests each of you were recommending, and I believe I can trust him to continue to treat Miss Kitty successfully.

In the event, however, I DO need a specialist for kidney malfunction, or Pancreatitis, does anyone care to suggest a specialist in the Tarrant County / Johnson County, Texas area?

I have to let Miss Kitty out to go potty, now, and then we're going to bed and cuddle and sleep. Thanks again for everyone's support. I am blown away by it.

I will of course keep everybody updated, in case there is more advice you'd care to give, about her continued treatment. I'll let you know more specifics about blood work, as soon as I have that information myself.

Take care to all, and to all a good night.

[Wylie's Mom]

GREAT NEWS that she is home with you!!! Wonderful. It sounds like you're in better hands with this 2nd vet. As you already said, she'll have to have more care/monitoring going forward - but you're on top of it.

I'll leave it to the pancreatitis experts on here to give you further advice. I'm just so happy to read this positive update!

[dwerten]

This is great news so happy and yes .8 for creatinine is normal as anything below .9 is good -- i am thinking bun was 40 not 400 but 40 is still high.

you need to have vet give you copies of all blood work and keep a file at home as i keep all tests and bloodwork in a file for each of my dogs so if i have to go to another vet they can see everything.

The test you need to ask if they did is cpli and tli and when they pull blood you need to pay for that add on definitely if they think it was pancreatitis.

It is a low fat diet not low protein diet. She is still a puppy so she needs protein -- the diets that are low fat are dd diets, purina ha is 8% fat, iams low residue, eukaneuba and sounds like that diet you have is low fat too. This is why she was not eating as it sounds like she was feeling sick as diet was too high in fat or she may have inflammatory bowel disease which triggered the pancreatitis so make sure she does not have any diet with potato in it as white potato is inflammatory and many dogs vomit on potato. Demi and dex both vomit on potato but dee dee can eat it.

Do not over feed so if she is hungry feed 3 times a day as you need to let her pancreas and tummy rest and over feeding can trigger it again so be careful. No treats ever again and no people food period - you need to get a year behind you before doing anything so only her dog food - PERIOD - if dogs get this then they are likely to get it very easily again so you have to be very strict. if they get it over and over they can get diabetes or epi and you do not want to give your dog insulin shots daily. This disease is very serious and 50% die from it. Do not be weak to those pretty brown eyes and give her anything. This disease is also very expensive to treat.

Only ask for that other vet and i would complain about the one who did not do proper protocol as they obviously need more training as when a dog is vomitting you immediately do xray then blood work even a new vet should know this and the fact that this vet gave your dog a steroid shot made the thing 10xs worse as the steroid inflamed the pancreas further so this vet could have killed your dog and i have been worried ever since your last post Also when pancreatitis you cannot have any meds, liquids, or food through the mouth for 48-72hrs and he sent you home with meds through mouth -- the reason you need to complain is this vet could hurt another dog sadly. New or not these are basics.

Please be very careful as my dex was home for one week and relapsed and it is not uncommon for them to relapse or get bacteria infections after having this so you are not completely out of the woods so be very careful. I would also recommend giving spring bottled water.

[dwerten]

also the fact that this vet did not give you i/d by hills is a huge plus as most vets give that and that made dexter more sick as it has pork in it and specialty hospital said that this is the worse food for pancreatitis

i emailed my group with texas people on it to see best vet and specialty hospital in your county if they live in that county

[dwerten]

the other thing that upsets me about first vet is every vet knows that pancreatitis is the worst at thanksgiving and if any vet knows yorkies they know they are prone to pancreatitis so the fact that this vet did not get a clue to this is beyond me

[ARCHIE]

I am happy to read your baby is doing so much better.
I know how frightening it must have been for you. I have
been threw it and you feel helpless. Bless her little heart
and spirit to rally back. What a strong little one she is.
She will gain the weight back fast if she continues to eat.
Bud lost 2 1/2lbs. and gained even more back. LOL
Only best wishes for the future,


Hugs,

[dwerten]

yep dex gained it all back and then some -lol - here is how skinny he got after pancreatitis in this pic

[Ladymom]

I am so glad Miss Kitty is feeling better and got to come home!

It's very easy to get confused about bloodwork numbers when you are upset and worried about a sick pet. I always ask for a copy of all test results. I also keep this link bookmarked (or you can download a copy):

A typical blood chemistry panel usually includes

Dehydration can really skew bloodwork results. Lady had HGE a few months ago and they thought she might be in acute kidney failure from her numbers.

Elevated Amylase indicates pancreatitis. I'm surprised the first vet didn't pick up on that.

[TLC]

So glad to hear she is getting better YAY~YAY~YAY


...no more chicken liver (very dangerous to give in high amounts) and definitely no more deli meats (they are soooooooooooo bad to give, filled with so much sodium and preservatives)

Alot of dog food companies make 'toppers' - so when she is way way way better, you can look into some of those

[Patti]

I am so happy your baby is doing better. My Dixie was diagnosed at 6 months with congenital kidney failure. Her kidney's never developed normally. Her bun was off the vets charts. I took her to a specialist (nephrologist) who thought he could help her but sadly her kidneys's were so underdeveloped nothing could be done. The specialist did an ultrasound which showed her kidney size and more complex tests. He said that he had many Yorkies in his care and they did really well for many years, so hopefully if your baby does have kidney problems they can be managed. I will keep her in my prayers.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by TLC

So glad to hear she is getting better YAY~YAY~YAY


...no more chicken liver (very dangerous to give in high amounts) and definitely no more deli meats (they are soooooooooooo bad to give, filled with so much sodium and preservatives)

Alot of dog food companies make 'toppers' - so when she is way way way better, you can look into some of those

i wouldn't use toppers with a pancreatic dog -- as toppers are gravy type things right?

How is she doing tonight ?

[TLC]

Originally Posted by dwerten

i wouldn't use toppers with a pancreatic dog -- as toppers are gravy type things right?

How is she doing tonight ?

Oh no, not gravy like...

There is a company that makes 'dried' chicken pieces and it just crumbles to a dust and you can sprinkle alittle bit as a topper - Would that be ok for a pancreatic dog?

[Peters]

im glad your babys doing better bbut if you have doubts ask for another opinion before you leave the vet office! your paying for it they should do whats needed

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by TLC

Oh no, not gravy like...

There is a company that makes 'dried' chicken pieces and it just crumbles to a dust and you can sprinkle alittle bit as a topper - Would that be ok for a pancreatic dog?

yeah but i really would stick with natural foods so what i do is get organic chicken breast and bake one every 3 days and use that to entice demi but she does not have any pancreas issues but for dex i give him a couple pieces as treats but he has been good for 2 years before doing this. I think the best thing is if she can just ead her food and get a good 6 mos behind her then you are almost home free but always have to be very careful

[llapan]

Again, thanks to all who continue to offer advice on Miss Kitty's management post- what we all believe is an attack of Pancreatitis, although that hasn't been positively confirmed by the vet --as he still has other things to rule out (a Lepto test is supposed to be ready by Wednesday--that is my vet's last concern--that it could be that instead of Pancreatitis).

First, concerning everyone's continued speculation that perhaps a Thanksgiving guest surreptiously fed Miss Kitty something fatty--bringing on the attack of (probably) Pancreatititis--that's impossible, as we had no guests on Thanksgiving. We were packing for a temporary move / our old house sold / our new house is being built). But--the Royal Canin Babydog 30 which WAS her regular dry food (before the attack) has a very high fat content (20%). Not that she ever eats a lot of the dry, but some days she does choose that over the wet offerings I give her on the same plate (chicken or beef baby food / chicken liver, etc.). As I've posted, the night of the start of her sickness, she ate only chicken liver off her plate of four small offerings of her various foods (which always included the Royal Canin Babydog 30). However, a meal or two prior to the meal where she ate only the liver, I can't remember exactly when--she ate only the Royal Babydog 30--turning up her nose at the other offerings on her plate. (You will recall from prior postings that, due to her finicky eating--I had been giving her four different choices, each meal (each just a small portion)and that she rotated as to which was her "favorite of the day/meal"--and that she would eat one choice that particular meal, pretty much leaving all the rest almost entirely untouched. So, if anything caused the Pancreatitis attack (if that's what it was) then it was probably the Royal Canin Babydog 30, don't you think? That had, by far, the highest fat content of any of the other food offerings I ever offered her for consumption.

Next, concerning postings that I must never deviate from her vet-recommended food, so as to avoid future Pancreatitis attacks, I have to ask a question about the one treat I've been giving her to assist in training her to come, to sit, etc. Especially, I need a treat to reward her for coming--because otherwise, she plays "keep away" from me. (I keep a very light leash on her (while she is loose), when outside, so that, if I go to pick her up, and she starts the "keep away" game, I can simply step on the leash to stop her flight, then pick her up. But, I prefer to instead reward her WHEN she comes (and she's been getting better about it, knowing there's a treat at the end if she comes, then sits on command, and stays still so I can pick her up without "trapping her" with the leash). The lunch mean (Oscar Mayer) that I've previously used for the treat--the ONLY food that she never turns her nose up, are cut into miniscule slivers--I'm talking probably 50 to 75 pieces out of a single THIN slice of lunch meat. In fact, the pieces of ham are SO SMALL, that when I give a piece to my Corgi, after wolfing it down, she always immediately searches the ground to see if she dropped it -- she can't actually taste that she swallowed anything!! (I generally carry different, bigger size treats for rewarding my Corgi, while training outside.) Anway, the fat content for the ham, according to the packaging, is only 3% / the protein is 10% / the salt is less than 2%. Can I not continue to use that ham as the treat for outside potty breaks? In the past, I NEVER gave her more than 3 or 4 tiny slivers of ham per potty breaks (which generally come every 2 to 3 to 4 hours--depending on her requests to go out.) I only gave her those small portions BEFORE, to keep from spoiling her appetite at meal times. Now, I think it would do no harm to continue the same, very small treats, in training---and that it wouldn't endanger her in connection with possible future Pancreatitis attacks. There has to be some reward, in training--otherwise, where's the joy for her? If that ham is absolutely WRONG to give her (to manage the Pancreatitis), there is NOTHING I've discovered that is tasty enough that she would eat it everytime offered. Certainly none of the dog foods I've tried--including the vet-prescribed one, which she continues to eat inside, but turns down outside, if she has eaten within the last four hours or so. Any other suggestions? Remember, it has to be unbelievably palatable, or she won't continue to eat it--although she might eat it for a day or two. (Her appetite has slowed down, she's no longer wolfing down the vet-prescribed food, but she is continuing to eat a "life-sustainable" amount, at least.

Thanks, again, for the advice previously given, and hopefully, the advice that will come in as a result of this post.