Seizures

[Rae Rae]

Definitly get him to a vet ASAP! I know people are saying it could be liver shunt (I pray it's not) but maybe it could be low blood sugar too? Do you keep nutrical on hand for him?

I hope it's nothing serious and it's treatable. Sending prayers for him to get better!

[Ladymom]

Lady had idiopathic epilepsy when I adopted her as a rescue at age four. She takes two kinds of seizure medications and they are under control.

Did they do a thyroid panel when he had bloodwork? That's not part of the routine CBC and should be done on older dogs.

Have you been giving him anything for liver support? One of Lady's seizure medications can cause liver damage so she gets Marin (milk thistle). Here's some information about it:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...lk_thistle.htm

[shirlblack]

Thanks so much for all your replies. I feel better now and have an appt. tomorrow at 9 am. I'm so afraid he'll fall off the bed again and really get hurt.

I have never heard of milk thistle but will pick up some. He has a very good appetite, sometimes too good. LOL! My BH is forever giving him snacks.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by shirlblack

Thanks so much for all your replies. I feel better now and have an appt. tomorrow at 9 am. I'm so afraid he'll fall off the bed again and really get hurt.

I have never heard of milk thistle but will pick up some. He has a very good appetite, sometimes too good. LOL! My BH is forever giving him snacks.

I recommend Marin. It also contains Vitamin E which should be given along with milk thistle:

http://www.entirelypets.com/marindog...utmk=195557229

[shirlblack]

After doing labs today the Dr. put Scooter on Phenobarbital twice a day. Have to take him back in three weeks for more labs to see how his body is reacting to the drug. I hope and pray all goes well.

[KathyinCali]

Sending warm wishes your way. Please post when you get home from the vet.

[Ladymom]

Phenobarbital is very hard on the liver. Vets normally use potassium bromide for dogs with liver disease or a combination of the two in order to keep the pheno dose as low as possible.

Please make sure you get him on Marin or Denosyl asap.

[gianic]

I've been reading your post and I have to tell you, have an acid bile test done.

My little guy was diagnosed with MVD a little over a month ago. We suspected he had a prior seizure - it was the middle of the night also in bed and it came and went quickly I honestly couldn't tell what was going on. When it happened again, it was obvious and he was having clusters of seizures. I rushed him to an emergency vet. (Of course it was late on a weekend and my vet was closed.) They put him on the pheno without any tests and they said it was epilepsy. I took him straight to a hospital and it was confirmed MVD (microvascular disorder) after 2 days in ICU and the acid bile test results.

He is now on hills l/d, pot. bromide and two other drugs. I supplement his diet with other veggies and NO additional protein. Thank god he is doing well so far! Also thanks to Yorkieluv for her advise after my frantic posts.

Good luck, I hope everything works out. Seizures are so scary.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by gianic

I've been reading your post and I have to tell you, have an acid bile test done.

My little guy was diagnosed with MVD a little over a month ago. We suspected he had a prior seizure - it was the middle of the night also in bed and it came and went quickly I honestly couldn't tell what was going on. When it happened again, it was obvious and he was having clusters of seizures. I rushed him to an emergency vet. (Of course it was late on a weekend and my vet was closed.) They put him on the pheno without any tests and they said it was epilepsy. I took him straight to a hospital and it was confirmed MVD (microvascular disorder) after 2 days in ICU and the acid bile test results.

He is now on hills l/d, pot. bromide and two other drugs. I supplement his diet with other veggies and NO additional protein. Thank god he is doing well so far! Also thanks to Yorkieluv for her advise after my frantic posts.

Good luck, I hope everything works out. Seizures are so scary.

I'm glad he is doing well.
I do have a question though. How did they diagnose him with MVD by bile acid testing alone? It really is impossible without a liver biopsy or at least a Protein C test (which still can't diagnose it really).

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm glad he is doing well.
I do have a question though. How did they diagnose him with MVD by bile acid testing alone? It really is impossible without a liver biopsy or at least a Protein C test (which still can't diagnose it really).

Actually, that's not correct according to Dr. Center. The proper protocol would be a bile acids test, repeated if the results are abnormal, then a Protein C test to diagnose asymptomatic MVD. Invasive tests like biopsies are not conclusive.

Improved differentiation of PSVA from MVD can be achieved inexpensively and noninvasively by measurement of Protein C; low values are found in dogs with "severe" shunting (MVD dogs usually have normal values).

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...2675&O=Generic

If the Protein C test is abnormal, a scintigraphy is done to look for shunting. Ultrasounds are not recommended as the results are too unreliable, at best only 80% accurate.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Actually, that's not correct according to Dr. Center. The proper protocol would be a bile acids test, repeated if the results are abnormal, then a Protein C test to diagnose asymptomatic MVD. Invasive tests like biopsies are not conclusive.

Improved differentiation of PSVA from MVD can be achieved inexpensively and noninvasively by measurement of Protein C; low values are found in dogs with "severe" shunting (MVD dogs usually have normal values).

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...2675&O=Generic

If the Protein C test is abnormal, a scintigraphy is done to look for shunting. Ultrasounds are not recommended as the results are too unreliable, at best only 80% accurate.

Hmmm, this is interesting.
I'm sure Ellie's protein C would be normal but I didn't have it done and the biopsy was normal for the most part. So she has high bile acids but hasn't been diagnosed with shunt or MVD. I just think it is strange that a vet wold even consider diagnosing a dog with MVD without a biopsy OR a Protein C test. Make sense?

[Ellie May]

And a question I have for Dr. Center while we're on the subject.
How can a dog be diagnosed with MVD if they have normal Protein C and high bile acids? Bile acids aren't always high from just shunt or MVD. If the Protein C is normal, I'm guessing it could be plenty of things making the BA go up, Yes? No? Sorry for all the questions, Ladymom, but you know me...I NEED to understand this.

[gianic]

Fernando (my little guy from Brazil) did have an ultrasound. Since this was so new to me I was never told that it was only 80% accurate and did not know to ask. I really don't know if they did the protein C test you mentioned. The neurologist we dealt with ruled out shunt which I was told was the better diagnose of the two. Now that I have this knowledge I will discuss it further with my vet - thank you so much. If you have any other words of advise, I would welcome them as this is still a new experience for me and the hardest part (besides the adjustment to his diet) is not knowing the long term prognosis.
Thanks again!

[shirlblack]

I forgot to ask my vet about Marin yesterday. Can I pick this up a local health food store? If not, then I can order it from the web siite you gave me.

Thanks to all for the info.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

And a question I have for Dr. Center while we're on the subject.
How can a dog be diagnosed with MVD if they have normal Protein C and high bile acids? Bile acids aren't always high from just shunt or MVD. If the Protein C is normal, I'm guessing it could be plenty of things making the BA go up, Yes? No? Sorry for all the questions, Ladymom, but you know me...I NEED to understand this.

I am by no means an expert. We were lucky to have Dr. Center speak at the Maltese specialty last August so many of our Spoiled Maltese forum members attended her seminar and have her handout. We also have both a vet and a vet tech, as well as a number of members, who have consulted with her.

I think most vets are unaware of the current protocol for diagnosing MVD and shunts. They still rely on the outdated tests like ultrasounds and biopsies. One of the main reasons Dr. Center stresses having a BAT done before a puppy goes to her new home is to avoid costly and invasive tests down the line. ALT levels may not be elevated in MVD dogs.

Anyway, here is more information on the Protein C test and how it works:

http://www.diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/c...t/proteinC.asp