pulling my hair out

[tinav]

My little GiGi is on Proin 25 for her bladder prob. She is doing ok, been on it since Aug 2007 and it seems to be doing the trick. She has had an accident every now and then.... I would say approx once a month but not every month. She is on 1/8 of a tablet once a week. I am reluctant to increase her dosage because I am not convinced that these accidents are due to the incontinence. I think she just gets lazy some times...this usually happens on my clean bedding and not when sleeping. It also happens the day before she is due for her med. It just happened tonight about 1/2 hour ago.... I was getting ready to take them both out, walked into the bedroom and found she had already gone, she was not in there.

Am I missing the point... is this what incontinence is all about or does it just sound like a spoiled little girl. We do spend a lot of time in the bedroom cause the computer is there so she does cozy up on my bed a lot so does Pucci who thankfully does not have a prob.

Any comments

Tina

[kalina82]

incontinence is when she urinates without knowing, usually when they are laying down or sleeping. What you are describing sounds like she knows she is peeing in those spots. she is making a big puddle of urine, not little drips here and there. when they are incontinent they will just drip or leak a little, so you will notice a very small spot not a big urine puddle. i hope i explained that clearly.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by kalina82

incontinence is when she urinates without knowing, usually when they are laying down or sleeping. What you are describing sounds like she knows she is peeing in those spots. she is making a big puddle of urine, not little drips here and there. when they are incontinent they will just drip or leak a little, so you will notice a very small spot not a big urine puddle. i hope i explained that clearly.

I agree and what tests have been done so far? Does she squat when this happens or does it just come out? Has an ultrasound been done? Ellie pees a couple times a month like that (on the couch or whatever) and doesn't seem to mean it. We went all the way to ultrasound and still have no answers. If she isn't squatting (and just letting it out) it may be incontinence. If she is squatting and knows what she is doing and you don't think it is behavioral, I would go farther with testing. There can be things like tumors and polyps in the bladder, and while this probably isn't the case, it should be ruled out.

[tinav]

I think you are right. I stopped scollding her when I realized she was incontenent. Burt I think I let it go a little to far. Tonight I did scold her alittle (brought her back to when the big spot was and told her very firmly NO NO) and put her in the ex pen with a weewee pad even though she already went just to begin to re establish that she must NOT go on the bed and that she WILL be punished if she does it again.

Thanks for the help

Tina

[tinav]

She did have an ultra sound in August.... but I don't think it would be that cause she also has had most of all the other testing that goes along with infections and incontenience. I am ruling out that she may need to have her med increased it just that I am not convienced of it and don't wnat her to from a bad habit and then just keep giving her more meds mindlessly. She was not all wet jsut a tiny bit underneath so it seems like she just took a leak but if you don't see her there is no real way of knowing and I never catch her....I always see it after the fact. I think she is getting a way with alot, lol....in my opinion. If it was happening more often I would be more inclined to take her to the vet but it seems too infrequent to even require more med.

Thanks for the comments.
Tina

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by tinav

She did have an ultra sound in August.... but I don't think it would be that cause she also has had most of all the other testing that goes along with infections and incontenience. I am ruling out that she may need to have her med increased it just that I am not convienced of it and don't wnat her to from a bad habit and then just keep giving her more meds mindlessly. She was not all wet jsut a tiny bit underneath so it seems like she just took a leak but if you don't see her there is no real way of knowing and I never catch her....I always see it after the fact. I think she is getting a way with alot, lol....in my opinion. If it was happening more often I would be more inclined to take her to the vet but it seems too infrequent to even require more med.

Thanks for the comments.
Tina

Okay, I didn't know you had done the ultrasound. If you have ruled out yeast and vaginitis also, I personally wouldn't increase the meds if it isn't more than a couple times a month because it may not be necessary.

[tinav]

She had been on antibiotics for most of August. Two bouts of infection....but when I took her to her "other" (current vet) he said everything that I told him points to the "bladder" so he did a urine test gave us Proin25 which worked. Of course he explained to us how to use it (increase or decrease) and said that if she is still having problems she needs to go back for more tests. I of course do not want to over look anything but as I said before I also don't want to fill her with meds and put her thru the uncomfort of unnecessary tests. Esp since she has had the unpleasant experience already.

I am also wondering why she all of a sudden started to refuse her meds. I still give it to her but I am wondering if she just doesn't need it any more and that she is responding this way because of that.

Now after last nights episode I "had" to let her sleep in her "beds" in the kitchen cause I had to take all the bedding off and didn't have another water proof mattress pad. When I woke up to her barking at 7am she had already done her poops and tinkle on the weewee pads as usual. So see what I mean....how can she know when to go most of the time but slip up on occasion and make it a BIG slip up. She definitely knows where she is supposed to go and does it the majority of the time.

Tina

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by tinav

She had been on antibiotics for most of August. Two bouts of infection....but when I took her to her "other" (current vet) he said everything that I told him points to the "bladder" so he did a urine test gave us Proin25 which worked. Of course he explained to us how to use it (increase or decrease) and said that if she is still having problems she needs to go back for more tests. I of course do not want to over look anything but as I said before I also don't want to fill her with meds and put her thru the uncomfort of unnecessary tests. Esp since she has had the unpleasant experience already.

I am also wondering why she all of a sudden started to refuse her meds. I still give it to her but I am wondering if she just doesn't need it any more and that she is responding this way because of that.

Now after last nights episode I "had" to let her sleep in her "beds" in the kitchen cause I had to take all the bedding off and didn't have another water proof mattress pad. When I woke up to her barking at 7am she had already done her poops and tinkle on the weewee pads as usual. So see what I mean....how can she know when to go most of the time but slip up on occasion and make it a BIG slip up. She definitely knows where she is supposed to go and does it the majority of the time.

Tina

This is EXACTLY what is happening with Ellie. She had a UTI and went on meds. She kept peeing where she wasn't supposed to and went on stronger antibiotics. She keeps doing it (but not all the time and I know it isn't always behavioral). She also pees maybe 3 times in 2 hours about once a month. Her tests come back fine. She is not taking meds for it because it isn't incontinence (she squats when she does it) and we would just be covering up symptoms. I would consider meds if she did it more often. It is strange. But now everything comes back normal (ultasound, xray, urinalysis, urine culture and she was even treated for vaginitis just in case).

[tinav]

Did they consider her bladder.....symptoms for infection and kidney are usually the same as bladder except that the leakage is not cause by infection. It is just that the bladder is weak and the Proin strengthens it so that they can hold it like normal. Yesterday GiGi and I were in doors all day and she did go already that day. It WAS time for her to go again but she was only one room away....so why pee on the bed...she knows better. Sometimes I think it is their way of telling us something. Like this is my busy season and it is also too cold to take her outdoors to pee (she takes forever and would get sick or make me and Pucci sick,lol) so I think that she looks for more attention or as a reminder that we may be forgetting her. But it is really just to cold and I don't have time everyday to take her out...she does fine on the weewee pads but I think she feels neglected at times. But she will just have to grin and bear it. Her vet says if it is once or twice a year it is nothing.

BTW...did you by chance consider another vet....or do you find this vet to be the best around. We now travel 45min to our vet. he has a very good manner with my furkids...that means a lot to me.


Tina

[tinav]

BTW...when GiGi first went thru tests and was put on antibiotics she was peeing practically in her sleep or while she was on my lap watching tv etc...in relaxed positions. And it was frequent not just once a month or so...she just had NO control.


Tina

[Ellie May]

If I was in your situation and Ellie had no control, I would definately medicate. She has never peed on me, just on furniture.

Ellie does see an excellent vet but we did go to a specialist. She needed an ultrasound for her liver that only a specialist can do. They did the whole abdomen while we were there (bladder and kidneys) and everything was fine except for an inflammed pancreas. This was a member of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine. So two vets have looked at her. The specialist even said something about it possibly being neurological but to go to a neurologist for more testing when she isn't in danger would not be the best choice. We also have to be very careful about what meds Ellie gets. Her liver function is in question... So we will wait for awhile and see and probably just deal with it.

[tinav]

Sounds lik the best thing to do for now. I am also waiting to see how GiGi progresses over time. I really think she is alright.


Tina