Do these sound like seizures? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

kristyrae77 · 01-09-2008, 09:33 PM

We are not sure if our baby is suffering from seizures or not. He will start to shake and lose his balance. He just had one that was not as bad as we have seen him. The thing that confuses me is he seems to be coherent during the episodes. He tries to get to myself or my hubby. He will eat-we are not sure if he is suffering from low blood sugar levels so we always try to feed him during the episodes. His eyes look glassed over but he seems like he knows what is going on and is just scared. He does not loose his bowels or pee, he does not foam at the mouth. He can't stand and tips over and he shakes pretty violently. But he will continue to try and walk to us or follow us and climb in our laps to be held during the episodes. During a couple of the episodes he will throw up and it seems to take the edge off of it. We've taken him to the vet but it's so hard to explain what we see. They held him for a day but nothing happened. What is your take on it? TIA

Ladymom · 01-09-2008, 09:58 PM

My Lady is an epileptic so I know too much about seizures.

How old is your little guy? If he is still a puppy, seizures are usually a sign of something else going on like a liver shunt or a thyroid imbalance. To be honest, it doesn't sound like a seizure to me.

Here is my "bible" on seizures. Maybe that will help you figure out if that is what you are seeing.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/

Did your vet do a complete blood panel, thyroid panel? I'd also want a bile acids test to check liver function.

It almost sounds like something neurological to me.

drawlins27 · 01-09-2008, 10:50 PM

Yes, this is most likely a seizure. I've seen a lot of seizures in Yorkies and they can look very different.

What you described is your baby as he moves through the various stages of a seizure.

The nervousness, seeking affection, and glassy eyes you are seeing is actually the beginning of the seizure called the aura stage.

The actual seizure itself is the Ictus stage. What you are describing sounds like the typical generalized tonic clonic seizure. The tonic phase is when he become stiff and falls over. Next he would begin to shake or paddle his feet and may cry out. This is the clonic phase.

The final stage is the post Ictus stage which occurs after the actual seizure. They will typically vomit and be very tired for a few hours.

How old is your baby? Typically if a dog experiences his first seizure before 1 yr old or after 5 yrs old, there is an underlying cause. If a dog experiences his first seizure between 1-5 years then it is typically Idiopathic epilepsy which means no known cause. Regardless, your vet needs to run some tests and rule out any obvious causes.

Take a look at this post where I described more about seizures and when they are life threatening.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...42&postcount=4

kristyrae77 · 01-10-2008, 07:53 AM

Thank you for your replies. He is 2 years old. They just started within the last year or so. He has had 4 or 5 since they have started. I will ask my vet if they have done all of the mentioned tests. I'm going to try and catch the next one on tape so his vet can see it also. I wish I would've done that last night. It scares me that I'm at work all day. I wonder if he's ever had one while he was alone. Ugh...

Ellie May · 01-10-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristyrae77

Thank you for your replies. He is 2 years old. They just started within the last year or so. He has had 4 or 5 since they have started. I will ask my vet if they have done all of the mentioned tests. I'm going to try and catch the next one on tape so his vet can see it also. I wish I would've done that last night. It scares me that I'm at work all day. I wonder if he's ever had one while he was alone. Ugh...

Has he ever been tested for liver shunt?

val · 01-10-2008, 08:15 AM

I have a shelti/lab cross that is almost 10, she has been having seizures since she was 4. She also is very coherent during her seizures as well, does alot of shaking and right afterwards has to go outside. She has them every couple of months or so. We did find that if she has gotten into something from the table, expecially chicken, she has a seizure immediately, it can also happen during season changes as well. We have not put her on any meds yet because they say it changes them and where she only has them every couple of months, I don't want to give her anything unless she was having alot of them. I also do not give her any shots, when I phoned the vet, and questioned them about seizures, I asked if the needle could have caused it or if it may make them worse, there answer to both questions was maybe, now known of my dogs have any shots after 4 months. I find just holding them, amking them feel safe, and having everything as quiet as possible brings her out of them faster, hope this helps.

kristyrae77 · 01-10-2008, 08:26 AM

Very interesting...we had chicken last night. I'm 99% sure he didn't get any, but now I'm a little curious. I really don't want to have him on medication either. The only thing that scares me if he is epileptic is that from what I have read, the seizures can give him brain damage or heart failure. That's what I'm most scared of.

val · 01-10-2008, 08:51 AM

I did forget something, I also let her lick honey off my hands when she is in them, someone told me about this and if you can catch them as soon as they go into them, it is suppose to bring them out of it faster, it really works for Zena. Doing that is probably better than feeding them because they may choke if there mouth locks up during the seizure. Time them as well to see how long she stays in there. Any kind of food can trigger it as well, good luck. My dog has had them for 6 years now and she is still fine and a very lovable dog. I think they forget about the seizure pretty fast after they have them which makes me feel a little better. I know it is scary but the more scared you are they sense it and it can cause her to stay in longer, talking to her and letting her know you are there I think is the best medicine. I am definitely not a pro or anything but just has monitored Zena so well, that I feel these little tips help,

TLC · 01-10-2008, 08:52 AM

Please get his Bile Acids Tested - this will show if his liver is not functioning correct. The blood test is very inexpensive, it costs me $80 and that's a NYC price.

Ellie May · 01-10-2008, 08:57 AM

It is very important for any Yorkie who has seizures to get their bile acids checked.

Ladymom · 01-10-2008, 12:07 PM

There is a whole list of things that can possibly trigger seizures on the website link I posted earlier:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...reTriggers.htm

Better than honey is vanilla ice cream after a seizure as having a seizure can cause blood sugar to drop. It helps them recover from a seizure much more quickly. There is an article on that on the website, too.

It's a difficult call as far as when to start medication. While phenobarbital does damage the liver over time, if a dog has more than two or three seizures a year, not treating can cause the epilepsy to worsen. It is a phenomenon called "kindling" where each time he has a seizure the brain actually rewires itself to create a path so the next seizure and the one after that is easier. This can result in more frequent and eventually cluster seizures which can be very serious as brain damage or even death can occur. I lost my only other epileptic dog because she started having cluster seizures and couldn't come out of them.

The potential side effects from medications have to be carefully weighed with risk of the disease worsening. If you do decide to start anti-seizure drugs, it's best to supplement pheno with potassium bromide to keep the phono dose as low as possible. It's also essential to supplement with milk thistle (Marin) or phono to protect the liver.

Yorkieluv · 01-14-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristyrae77

We are not sure if our baby is suffering from seizures or not. He will start to shake and lose his balance. He just had one that was not as bad as we have seen him. The thing that confuses me is he seems to be coherent during the episodes. He tries to get to myself or my hubby. He will eat-we are not sure if he is suffering from low blood sugar levels so we always try to feed him during the episodes. His eyes look glassed over but he seems like he knows what is going on and is just scared. He does not loose his bowels or pee, he does not foam at the mouth. He can't stand and tips over and he shakes pretty violently. But he will continue to try and walk to us or follow us and climb in our laps to be held during the episodes. During a couple of the episodes he will throw up and it seems to take the edge off of it. We've taken him to the vet but it's so hard to explain what we see. They held him for a day but nothing happened. What is your take on it? TIA

These do sound like some type of neurological symptom....Miko does this when he gets sick due to his liver condition...

01-09-2008, 09:33 PM	#1
kristyrae77 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 225	Do these sound like seizures? We are not sure if our baby is suffering from seizures or not. He will start to shake and lose his balance. He just had one that was not as bad as we have seen him. The thing that confuses me is he seems to be coherent during the episodes. He tries to get to myself or my hubby. He will eat-we are not sure if he is suffering from low blood sugar levels so we always try to feed him during the episodes. His eyes look glassed over but he seems like he knows what is going on and is just scared. He does not loose his bowels or pee, he does not foam at the mouth. He can't stand and tips over and he shakes pretty violently. But he will continue to try and walk to us or follow us and climb in our laps to be held during the episodes. During a couple of the episodes he will throw up and it seems to take the edge off of it. We've taken him to the vet but it's so hard to explain what we see. They held him for a day but nothing happened. What is your take on it? TIA __________________ Seary Love-My Butterfly baby You will be missed always!! ~May 22, 2005

01-09-2008, 09:58 PM	#2
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	My Lady is an epileptic so I know too much about seizures. How old is your little guy? If he is still a puppy, seizures are usually a sign of something else going on like a liver shunt or a thyroid imbalance. To be honest, it doesn't sound like a seizure to me. Here is my "bible" on seizures. Maybe that will help you figure out if that is what you are seeing. http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ Did your vet do a complete blood panel, thyroid panel? I'd also want a bile acids test to check liver function. It almost sounds like something neurological to me. __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf

01-09-2008, 10:50 PM	#3
drawlins27 Mommy's Lil' Miracle Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mufreesboro, TN Posts: 1,028	Yes, this is most likely a seizure. I've seen a lot of seizures in Yorkies and they can look very different. What you described is your baby as he moves through the various stages of a seizure. The nervousness, seeking affection, and glassy eyes you are seeing is actually the beginning of the seizure called the aura stage. The actual seizure itself is the Ictus stage. What you are describing sounds like the typical generalized tonic clonic seizure. The tonic phase is when he become stiff and falls over. Next he would begin to shake or paddle his feet and may cry out. This is the clonic phase. The final stage is the post Ictus stage which occurs after the actual seizure. They will typically vomit and be very tired for a few hours. How old is your baby? Typically if a dog experiences his first seizure before 1 yr old or after 5 yrs old, there is an underlying cause. If a dog experiences his first seizure between 1-5 years then it is typically Idiopathic epilepsy which means no known cause. Regardless, your vet needs to run some tests and rule out any obvious causes. Take a look at this post where I described more about seizures and when they are life threatening. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...42&postcount=4 __________________ I LOVE my little Furbutts! Last edited by drawlins27; 01-09-2008 at 10:52 PM.

01-10-2008, 07:53 AM	#4
kristyrae77 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 225	Thank you for your replies. He is 2 years old. They just started within the last year or so. He has had 4 or 5 since they have started. I will ask my vet if they have done all of the mentioned tests. I'm going to try and catch the next one on tape so his vet can see it also. I wish I would've done that last night. It scares me that I'm at work all day. I wonder if he's ever had one while he was alone. Ugh... __________________ Seary Love-My Butterfly baby You will be missed always!! ~May 22, 2005

01-10-2008, 08:26 AM	#7
kristyrae77 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 225	Very interesting...we had chicken last night. I'm 99% sure he didn't get any, but now I'm a little curious. I really don't want to have him on medication either. The only thing that scares me if he is epileptic is that from what I have read, the seizures can give him brain damage or heart failure. That's what I'm most scared of. __________________ Seary Love-My Butterfly baby You will be missed always!! ~May 22, 2005

01-10-2008, 08:15 AM	#6
val Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: medicine hat,ab Posts: 155	I have a shelti/lab cross that is almost 10, she has been having seizures since she was 4. She also is very coherent during her seizures as well, does alot of shaking and right afterwards has to go outside. She has them every couple of months or so. We did find that if she has gotten into something from the table, expecially chicken, she has a seizure immediately, it can also happen during season changes as well. We have not put her on any meds yet because they say it changes them and where she only has them every couple of months, I don't want to give her anything unless she was having alot of them. I also do not give her any shots, when I phoned the vet, and questioned them about seizures, I asked if the needle could have caused it or if it may make them worse, there answer to both questions was maybe, now known of my dogs have any shots after 4 months. I find just holding them, amking them feel safe, and having everything as quiet as possible brings her out of them faster, hope this helps.

01-10-2008, 08:51 AM	#8
val Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: medicine hat,ab Posts: 155	I did forget something, I also let her lick honey off my hands when she is in them, someone told me about this and if you can catch them as soon as they go into them, it is suppose to bring them out of it faster, it really works for Zena. Doing that is probably better than feeding them because they may choke if there mouth locks up during the seizure. Time them as well to see how long she stays in there. Any kind of food can trigger it as well, good luck. My dog has had them for 6 years now and she is still fine and a very lovable dog. I think they forget about the seizure pretty fast after they have them which makes me feel a little better. I know it is scary but the more scared you are they sense it and it can cause her to stay in longer, talking to her and letting her know you are there I think is the best medicine. I am definitely not a pro or anything but just has monitored Zena so well, that I feel these little tips help,

01-10-2008, 08:52 AM	#9
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	Please get his Bile Acids Tested - this will show if his liver is not functioning correct. The blood test is very inexpensive, it costs me $80 and that's a NYC price. __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

01-10-2008, 08:57 AM	#10
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	It is very important for any Yorkie who has seizures to get their bile acids checked. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

01-10-2008, 12:07 PM	#11
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	There is a whole list of things that can possibly trigger seizures on the website link I posted earlier: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...reTriggers.htm Better than honey is vanilla ice cream after a seizure as having a seizure can cause blood sugar to drop. It helps them recover from a seizure much more quickly. There is an article on that on the website, too. It's a difficult call as far as when to start medication. While phenobarbital does damage the liver over time, if a dog has more than two or three seizures a year, not treating can cause the epilepsy to worsen. It is a phenomenon called "kindling" where each time he has a seizure the brain actually rewires itself to create a path so the next seizure and the one after that is easier. This can result in more frequent and eventually cluster seizures which can be very serious as brain damage or even death can occur. I lost my only other epileptic dog because she started having cluster seizures and couldn't come out of them. The potential side effects from medications have to be carefully weighed with risk of the disease worsening. If you do decide to start anti-seizure drugs, it's best to supplement pheno with potassium bromide to keep the phono dose as low as possible. It's also essential to supplement with milk thistle (Marin) or phono to protect the liver. __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf