Should all Pet Quality puppies be altered? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

JCarlson2004 · 12-28-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarlson2004

If I was a breeder and I was selling my pups as PETS only, I would spay and neuter them before they left my home. If I was selling a pup to someone who shows dogs, then obviously I would leave the dog unaltered.

I personally think spay/neuter contracts are silly because someone can easily SAY that they had their dog spayed/neutered but in reality could be lying. For my own piece of mind, I would have it done myself before they go to their new home.

I'm sorry but I forgot to add one thing to my post. If I had a pup that was a good candidate for breeding (meaning that he/she was within the breed standard and all the necessary testing was done and the results that came back were all positive), I would sell that dog unaltered to a very REPUTABLE breeder. This is the only other occasion in which I would sell an unaltered dog.

BamaFan121s · 12-28-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaspermom

I do agree that in the interest of protecting the breed and cutting down on homeless animals, perhaps enforcing spay/neuter contracts is a good thing. But for the price I paid for my pup, I would prefer to make that decision myself. I am happy that my breeder agrees.

I am not trying to bait or entice anyone to kill me. I love being here and don't want to upset anyone. But I know this thread is going to incite all kinds of riot anyhow, so OK, I'm ready! BLAST AWAY if you must!

I do agree with you.

I have not had to make this choice yet as a breeder, but I have already thought about it. Should one of the pups develope something that should not be passed to further generations, then yes, there will be a s/n agreement for the new owner. If it is obvious that the pup is going to be too small to breed as an adult, then yes, there will be a s/n agreement. But just for general purposes, no. If that is for you as a breeder, go ahead, just what I follow.

chachi · 12-28-2005, 12:06 PM

Too many accidents I vote yes.

troubletb · 12-28-2005, 01:07 PM

If all yorkies were show quality then more than half of us would not be able to afford a yorkie, so I voted no. Most of us only have pet quality yorkies, me included.

y0rkieL0ver · 12-28-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Only if they don't meet standard. There are alot of dogs that meet standard that are not 'show worthy.' I see nothing wrong with breeding them so that others, not interested in show, can have pets. I am sure that in a perfect world, we would all have Yorkies that could win in any ring, but in this world, that ain't gonna happen.

well said.

Kathryn_V · 12-28-2005, 01:44 PM

OK, so you sold a pup with a S/N contract.... You checked the box for limited registration.... You ask for a S?N cert from their vet.... How do you know its really done? Someone else asked this earlier...

This is how my Grandmother did it so many years ago. You don't get your papers untill I get a visit from you with dog at your side and S/N cert from vet in hand. She would trade the Cert from the vet, which she would keep on file, for the registration papers. It was also in her contract that the owner had untill____ date to have the dog S/N, or the owner would forfit ownership of said dog, and the dog would be returned to the breeder. All funds exchanged would be forfited as well.

When you left with one of her Poodles, you knew what was what! You had that dog fixed or else! She did sell unalterd dogs from time to time, but only to other show breeders. Her contract was very clearly worded and scared off alot of buyers, but she only had 2 or 3 litters a year and never had a problem placing her Poo babies. Yeah, she had all kinds of nicknames for them!

Passionfruition · 12-28-2005, 01:52 PM

I voted YES - but only if it is possible. I mean, dont' most dogs have to wait until like 5-6 months of age before being s/n? I would definitely not want to wait that long to get my puppy! Hmm....nice idea though. But really, is it OK to do that when they're really young?

bettyeanne · 12-28-2005, 01:55 PM

I voted "yes". If the pet quality pup is S/N by the breeder it is at least seen that time by a competitent vet! Our breeder includes S/N in her contract although she trusted us to have Toto's spay done since we use the same vet as she. She sold one several years ago and instead of bringing the pup back for her to have it spayed, they just took it to their regular vet who knew "squat" about small dogs. It never woke up!!! ... she still tears up when she thinks about her poor baby! That's why it's so very important to make sure you use a vet knowledgeable in small animals!!

YorkieRose · 12-28-2005, 02:03 PM

Unless I know the person well, I do not give any papers until the pup is spay/neutered. It does not stop them from breeding the Yorkie, but it will stop most..a letter from the vet is expected after the altering..but you would be surprised how many tell me not to bother sending the papers..why give AKC the money for a spay/neutered pet?

One problem I find is getting breeders to agree on what is breed quality. Reading and comparing to the standard is not so black and white. Judges can not agree on color or texture half the time.
If a Yorkie has a low tail set, does that make it not breed standard? How about too light, too dark, too laid back, on and on...I want to vote YES, to spay/neutering pet quality..I also want to be the one who gets to judge what is pet or what is not..JMO Some breeders do not feel a dog is breed quality unless it is show quality. Others give the standard a very wide range of what is acceptable.

troubletb · 12-28-2005, 04:32 PM

Ok, I really think that most of you guys are not thinking... How many of you out there have "show quality dogs" You know if they have big ears, an overbite or under bit,not a perfect square (9" highX 9" long) Perfect silky coats, correct ears, dark steel blue color, etc... They are not show quality! Did everyones dog come from show dogs, or show quality parents?? I would think not. SO, if all the pet quality dogs were S/N then you wouldn't have your perious furbabies.. Yes, I agree that these crappy puppy mills need to be stopped, but that doesn't mean that we should S/N all pet quality dogs.. My Bell is too tall,(to be show quality) but she has a decent coat, great face, nice ear set.. So should I have had her spayed rather than breed her.. I would guarantee you that the people who bought her babies are very happy with them.
Gosh, look what you made me do. I was suppose to start be nice!! LOL

shelbysmom · 12-28-2005, 04:40 PM

Even the dogs in the show ring are not perfect. no such thing. they are the best examples of the breed standard. I think all breeders should only consider breeding dogs that are good examples of the breed. these dogs are getting more deluted by the minute b/c everyone is breeding anything with a tail and a couple ears. When someone says they are getting a Yorkie they should be able to believe it will LOOK like a Yorkie!

I believe it limited registration for pet quality pups but do not believe in breeder doing it before delivery. Some of these dogs are too tiny at 12 or even 16 weeks for the spay surgery.

Olivier · 12-28-2005, 05:26 PM

Yes .

All my puppies are spayed or neutered before leaving my home . There are too many peoples using pets for their breeding program because they are " cute ".
Why do you think , there are several peoples asking if their little ones are " true Yorkies " or all other terms used ?

With quality , a Yorkie can be recognize at first sight .

yorkieusa · 12-28-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubletb

Ok, I really think that most of you guys are not thinking... How many of you out there have "show quality dogs" You know if they have big ears, an overbite or under bit,not a perfect square (9" highX 9" long) Perfect silky coats, correct ears, dark steel blue color, etc... They are not show quality! Did everyones dog come from show dogs, or show quality parents?? I would think not. SO, if all the pet quality dogs were S/N then you wouldn't have your perious furbabies.. Yes, I agree that these crappy puppy mills need to be stopped, but that doesn't mean that we should S/N all pet quality dogs.. My Bell is too tall,(to be show quality) but she has a decent coat, great face, nice ear set.. So should I have had her spayed rather than breed her.. I would guarantee you that the people who bought her babies are very happy with them.
Gosh, look what you made me do. I was suppose to start be nice!! LOL

Ditto! Another thought that I have had or questioned is what would happen to the dispositions/personalities of yorkies? Would the calmer personalities seldom be found and the snappier yorkies be found more frequently? Just a thought.

Jaspermom · 12-28-2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubletb

SO, if all the pet quality dogs were S/N then you wouldn't have your perious furbabies.. Gosh, look what you made me do. I was suppose to start be nice!! LOL

While writing my post, my hubby and I were discussing this thread, and he said almost exactly what you just stated. I just read your post to him, and he said "right on, Karen!"

We STILL think you are nice!

FirstYorkie · 12-28-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

There are alot of dogs that meet standard that are not 'show worthy.' I see nothing wrong with breeding them so that others, not interested in show, can have pets.

I have to agree.

Who decides which pup is "show" quality and which is not? At what age? What does that person have to do to demonstrate their knowledge of the breed?

Sounds a bit too Nazi-ish to me.

View Poll Results: Should Pet Quality Pups be altered by the breeder?
Yes	33	58.93%
No	23	41.07%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

12-28-2005, 12:06 PM	#18
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	Too many accidents I vote yes. __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

12-28-2005, 01:07 PM	#19
troubletb Love my Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Port Richey, Florida Posts: 2,339	If all yorkies were show quality then more than half of us would not be able to afford a yorkie, so I voted no. Most of us only have pet quality yorkies, me included. __________________ Karen~ Bell, Lilly and Peter's Mom Rest in Peace <3

12-28-2005, 01:44 PM	#21
Kathryn_V Out to Spoil the World! Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 2,709	OK, so you sold a pup with a S/N contract.... You checked the box for limited registration.... You ask for a S?N cert from their vet.... How do you know its really done? Someone else asked this earlier... This is how my Grandmother did it so many years ago. You don't get your papers untill I get a visit from you with dog at your side and S/N cert from vet in hand. She would trade the Cert from the vet, which she would keep on file, for the registration papers. It was also in her contract that the owner had untill____ date to have the dog S/N, or the owner would forfit ownership of said dog, and the dog would be returned to the breeder. All funds exchanged would be forfited as well. When you left with one of her Poodles, you knew what was what! You had that dog fixed or else! She did sell unalterd dogs from time to time, but only to other show breeders. Her contract was very clearly worded and scared off alot of buyers, but she only had 2 or 3 litters a year and never had a problem placing her Poo babies. Yeah, she had all kinds of nicknames for them! __________________ Kathryn, Pixie and Chynna

12-28-2005, 01:52 PM	#22
Passionfruition Proud of my Sully! Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: beautiful CHARLESTON, S.C. Posts: 5,454	I voted YES - but only if it is possible. I mean, dont' most dogs have to wait until like 5-6 months of age before being s/n? I would definitely not want to wait that long to get my puppy! Hmm....nice idea though. But really, is it OK to do that when they're really young? __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - I love my Sully (the Wonderdog!)

12-28-2005, 01:55 PM	#23
bettyeanne Donating YT 7000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alabama, etc. Posts: 9,031	I voted "yes". If the pet quality pup is S/N by the breeder it is at least seen that time by a competitent vet! Our breeder includes S/N in her contract although she trusted us to have Toto's spay done since we use the same vet as she. She sold one several years ago and instead of bringing the pup back for her to have it spayed, they just took it to their regular vet who knew "squat" about small dogs. It never woke up!!! ... she still tears up when she thinks about her poor baby! That's why it's so very important to make sure you use a vet knowledgeable in small animals!! __________________ Toto's Mom - http://www.dogster.com/?206581 Yorkie Rescue Colorado - http://www.yorkierescuecolorado.com/ "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." -- Albert Einstein

12-28-2005, 02:03 PM	#24
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	pups Unless I know the person well, I do not give any papers until the pup is spay/neutered. It does not stop them from breeding the Yorkie, but it will stop most..a letter from the vet is expected after the altering..but you would be surprised how many tell me not to bother sending the papers..why give AKC the money for a spay/neutered pet? One problem I find is getting breeders to agree on what is breed quality. Reading and comparing to the standard is not so black and white. Judges can not agree on color or texture half the time. If a Yorkie has a low tail set, does that make it not breed standard? How about too light, too dark, too laid back, on and on...I want to vote YES, to spay/neutering pet quality..I also want to be the one who gets to judge what is pet or what is not..JMO Some breeders do not feel a dog is breed quality unless it is show quality. Others give the standard a very wide range of what is acceptable.

12-28-2005, 04:32 PM	#25
troubletb Love my Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Port Richey, Florida Posts: 2,339	Ok, I really think that most of you guys are not thinking... How many of you out there have "show quality dogs" You know if they have big ears, an overbite or under bit,not a perfect square (9" highX 9" long) Perfect silky coats, correct ears, dark steel blue color, etc... They are not show quality! Did everyones dog come from show dogs, or show quality parents?? I would think not. SO, if all the pet quality dogs were S/N then you wouldn't have your perious furbabies.. Yes, I agree that these crappy puppy mills need to be stopped, but that doesn't mean that we should S/N all pet quality dogs.. My Bell is too tall,(to be show quality) but she has a decent coat, great face, nice ear set.. So should I have had her spayed rather than breed her.. I would guarantee you that the people who bought her babies are very happy with them. Gosh, look what you made me do. I was suppose to start be nice!! LOL __________________ Karen~ Bell, Lilly and Peter's Mom Rest in Peace <3

12-28-2005, 04:40 PM	#26
shelbysmom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,394	Even the dogs in the show ring are not perfect. no such thing. they are the best examples of the breed standard. I think all breeders should only consider breeding dogs that are good examples of the breed. these dogs are getting more deluted by the minute b/c everyone is breeding anything with a tail and a couple ears. When someone says they are getting a Yorkie they should be able to believe it will LOOK like a Yorkie! I believe it limited registration for pet quality pups but do not believe in breeder doing it before delivery. Some of these dogs are too tiny at 12 or even 16 weeks for the spay surgery.

12-28-2005, 05:26 PM	#27
Olivier Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,999	Yes . All my puppies are spayed or neutered before leaving my home . There are too many peoples using pets for their breeding program because they are " cute ". Why do you think , there are several peoples asking if their little ones are " true Yorkies " or all other terms used ? With quality , a Yorkie can be recognize at first sight .