Vacciation Controversy

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Here is a link to a discussion about doing titers to prevent over-vacciantion

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...titer_test.htm

Here is a link to the discussion about the cancer/vaccine connection http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/vac.html

[lily's mom]

Just so you don't think I am just being stubborn about vaccinations I thought I might add a few reasons I will continue.
A few mornings ago I woke up to find a dead bat in my front yard. Bats are HUGE rabies carries. I quickly removed it so that Lily or none of my cats could feast on it. I am pretty sure one of my cats caught it and brought home anyway. We have regular late night dinner guest that is an oppussum. He feeds on the cat food. The cats don't mind him but if for some reason Lily was ever out pottying in the middle of the night I am sure she would try to take him on. Just becaue it is wild doesn't mean that it has rabies but it certainly could get it at any time.
I live in a rural area at it is so common for any creature to wonder it to my yard. There are tons of homeless dogs and cats that wonder in to everyone's yard to eat whatever they can find. They can be and probably are carrying a variety of diseases. This is why I think it is important for me to personnally continue to keep shots up to date.
It is also a law to have a rabies shot where I live. If your dog gets loose and is picked up, it will not be released to you without proof of a rabies shot or until it receives one from the local vet.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Here is another good link for research in this area

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

and another

http://www.vaccines.bizland.com/animalvax.html

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

All I am trying to acheive is awareness and education for the membership here. What you choose to do after you educate yourself on all sides of the issue is up to you and your individual circumstances which is as it should be.

Maybe some will continue to vaccinate but they will eliminate the most dangerous and least effective shots.

Some will not get them every year but will do the titers instead or go to a more reasonable every three year shcedule.

Some will learn to ask for single vaccines instead of the more dangerous combo shots...

There are many options available and everyone needs to do what is right for them and their pets.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by lily's mom

Just so you don't think I am just being stubborn about vaccinations I thought I might add a few reasons I will continue.
A few mornings ago I woke up to find a dead bat in my front yard. Bats are HUGE rabies carries. I quickly removed it so that Lily or none of my cats could feast on it. I am pretty sure one of my cats caught it and brought home anyway. We have regular late night dinner guest that is an oppussum. He feeds on the cat food. The cats don't mind him but if for some reason Lily was ever out pottying in the middle of the night I am sure she would try to take him on. Just becaue it is wild doesn't mean that it has rabies but it certainly could get it at any time.
I live in a rural area at it is so common for any creature to wonder it to my yard. There are tons of homeless dogs and cats that wonder in to everyone's yard to eat whatever they can find. They can be and probably are carrying a variety of diseases. This is why I think it is important for me to personnally continue to keep shots up to date.
It is also a law to have a rabies shot where I live. If your dog gets loose and is picked up, it will not be released to you without proof of a rabies shot or until it receives one from the local vet.

You have made the right decisions for you and your dog and I would never argue with that or call you stubborn. You have made informed and educated decisions.

My dogs do not go outside unless they are on a leash and with me or someone else. My groomer comes to my house and I never board my dogs. I accept the risks associated with going to the dog park and the vet's office as most diseases they would get are curable. There has not been a case of rabies in my community since the 1960s. If my dog bit someone they would be released ot my care and proof of rabies would be required and I would at that point have to give my dog a rabies vaccine. I would also have to pay a small fine. The chances of that set of circumstance occurring is slim to nil but I am aware that it could. I had two vets tell me they would put my dog down if it bit someone without being vaccinated!! That is absolutely FALSE!!! The law clearly states that they cannot destroy the animal unless it actually tests positive for rabies.

[Marie]

I take Gucci to a vet in the ASPCA in NYC.Gucci didnt had any reaction to her shots and Im very comfortable with my vet. We have discussed vaccinations and I will keep vaccinnating Gucci except Lepto. In NYC By law your dog has to be vaccinate for rabies.
In my opinion, all dogs should get vaccinate. If your pup has a reaction to them, then discusse with your vet alternatives. In the end, we all want what is best for our pups.
I appreciate you trying to informed us about the "controversy" regarding vaccines. I think the way that you try to push us your ideals is what causes people to clash with you, imho. I have nothing against you and your ideals, I just wish you present your points in an different way. It is great that you do your research but remember you have to see the validity of where you are getting this info. May I ask you a question, Have you discussed with your vet vaccinations or you just made your decision of what you read on the net?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by Marie

I take Gucci to a vet in the ASPCA in NYC.Gucci didnt had any reaction to her shots and Im very comfortable with my vet. We have discussed vaccinations and I will keep vaccinnating Gucci except Lepto. In NYC By law your dog has to be vaccinate for rabies.
In my opinion, all dogs should get vaccinate. If your pup has a reaction to them, then discusse with your vet alternatives. In the end, we all want what is best for our pups.
I appreciate you trying to informed us about the "controversy" regarding vaccines. I think the way that you try to push us your ideals is what causes people to clash with you, imho. I have nothing against you and your ideals, I just wish you present your points in an different way. It is great that you do your research but remember you have to see the validity of where you are getting this info. May I ask you a question, Have you discussed with your vet vaccinations or you just made your decision of what you read on the net?

I have discussed this issue with many vets, both those who practice western philosophy and those who practice homeopathic. (All are trained and have doctorate degrees in veterinary medicine) I have 6 dogs currently (if you include Buddha) and between them all I have seen about 10 different vets in person over the last year with emergencies, specialists, and interviewing over the telephone.

I would welcome your assistance and advice on how to present this issue in a more acceptable way to avoid "clashing with people". I thought this poll was a light, non-aggressive way to broach a subject that I admit I am passionate about. If you read my introductory post I don't think I was "Pushy" at all. I was offended by Txshopper's post and wrote a rather defensive reply but I feel I have approached this issue in a very non-aggressive manner.

There are still people who hadn't read any of the previous threads on this issue so I feel it is important to continue to address it to reach as many members here as possible. I care about all the dogs on this forum and their health is important to me.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by StewiesMom

I didn't vote either. Stewie will never receive another rabies vaccine as long as he lives, but he will get parvo, distemper and bordtadella as many times as my vet thinks he should.

My neighbor's Chi (across the street) just died from Parvo. She was found dead in bloody stools on her kitchen floor. Their other dog had to be temporarily rehomed while their house is being sterilzed. The costs are far too high IMO.

If you were able to test Stewie's immunity to Parvo and Distemper instead of subjecting him to an unnecessary vaccine would you want to do that? Most vets do not tell owners about titers.

[orinskye]

there have been several important things brought up....... one is the rabies vaccine. It is a law that i have to have a rabies vaccine for toby, HOWEVER, there HAS NOT been a rabies case in my area for some time seriously, rabies is not common here, it does not run rampant and i dont think that it is because "most poeple vaccinate against it" because even wild animals have not been known to have it in this area. as far as the vaccinations go, how is one to build up immunities unless one is left to deal with it naturally? There has been some controversy about vaccines causing cancer later on down the road too... some vets make the decision that it "is better safe than sorry" and in this case OVER vaccinating . What happens if you were to get a bunch of flue shots when you allready had an immunity to it?
I think that our level of health care has greatly increased, and this is a good thing. Humans live longer now than they did before, but they are also more sickly. New virus strains that are WORSE are coming about by mutating and becoming "immune" to vaccines (this is scary)
I dont think that it is just dogs either...... i think this extends to people. I have seen people go to the doctor for simple COLDS, why? they will get over it and develop and beef up their immune system. and now we have scary things like cancer, and aids, and luekemia, and all these other diseases It's a scary world we live in

[Marie]

Kim, I guess when I mean pushy is because you seem to tell people that vaccination is bad and we should not vaccinate our pups;and if we dont follow you we are wrong. Maybe not on those words, but that is how it comes across. A better way will be, presenting what you learned and decided and leave at that. IS fine to be passionate but sometimes you come as a fanatic. Please dont get offended, is just my opinion.
Please keep doing your researches and present them to us; But let us do our own desicions. At the end all you can do is informed.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by orinskye

there have been several important things brought up....... one is the rabies vaccine. It is a law that i have to have a rabies vaccine for toby, HOWEVER, there HAS NOT been a rabies case in my area for some time seriously, rabies is not common here, it does not run rampant and i dont think that it is because "most poeple vaccinate against it" because even wild animals have not been known to have it in this area. as far as the vaccinations go, how is one to build up immunities unless one is left to deal with it naturally? There has been some controversy about vaccines causing cancer later on down the road too... some vets make the decision that it "is better safe than sorry" and in this case OVER vaccinating . What happens if you were to get a bunch of flue shots when you allready had an immunity to it?
I think that our level of health care has greatly increased, and this is a good thing. Humans live longer now than they did before, but they are also more sickly. New virus strains that are WORSE are coming about by mutating and becoming "immune" to vaccines (this is scary)
I dont think that it is just dogs either...... i think this extends to people. I have seen people go to the doctor for simple COLDS, why? they will get over it and develop and beef up their immune system. and now we have scary things like cancer, and aids, and luekemia, and all these other diseases It's a scary world we live in

Yes...you are right and the reason the rabies vaccine is required by law even in areas where it is not a valid risk is that the veterinarians lobbied for it and would have a fit if the laws were repealed because it would affect their pocketbook. Those guaranteed visits are where they have a chance to diagnose additional treatment that your dog "needs".

Vaccines are controversial for humans also. I do not get an annual flu shot and I don't take antibiotics any more than necessary for the reasons you explained. The use of anti-bacterial soap by so many of concern to as it is proven that the bacteria are getting steonger and stonger as a result.

It is a scary world we live in and it will be even scarier for our children.

[red98vett]

I Just HAVE to say something here - SoCal - I have seen NUMEROUS posts by you on this same subject - Everywhere I look your telling people you are NOT going to vaccinate your dogs anymore and to me that is sending THE WRONG SIGNALS.

What are you going for here exactly ?

You keep posting the same things over and over and we all are AWARE of your feelings about vaccinations ...but now its going into polls that have no way to get true answers and you are purposly looking for anyone to dispute your beliefs -

Please Don't take me wrong or twist my words here - You are entitled to your opinions... but honestly - this is going pretty far on this subject. I really think there is a different agenda going on as this seems more about you than a real interest in our yorkies - You are actually turning this INTO a controversary and I really hope everyone sees this for what it is. From what I can see - MOST OF US will continue to vaccinate - yet THAT isn't on your 'POLL'...I wonder why ?....

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by red98vett

MOST OF US will continue to vaccinate - yet THAT isn't on your 'POLL'...I wonder why ?....

Continuing to vaccinate is included in OPTION #3

[StewiesMom]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

If you were able to test Stewie's immunity to Parvo and Distemper instead of subjecting him to an unnecessary vaccine would you want to do that? Most vets do not tell owners about titers.

Possibly, but the risk seems too high - especially with Parvo. How often would you have to test them? How expensive or inexpensive is it? Isn't it possibly for their immunity to fluctuate?

I think Dawn made a great point about crazy wild animals. Fortunately, I don't have that problem since I live in a very urban area.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by Marie

Kim, I guess when I mean pushy is because you seem to tell people that vaccination is bad and we should not vaccinate our pups;and if we dont follow you we are wrong. Maybe not on those words, but that is how it comes across. A better way will be, presenting what you learned and decided and leave at that. IS fine to be passionate but sometimes you come as a fanatic. Please dont get offended, is just my opinion.
Please keep doing your researches and present them to us; But let us do our own desicions. At the end all you can do is informed.

Very well said