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-   -   Michael Vick Defended By Woopi Goldburg (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/off-topic-discussions/93558-michael-vick-defended-woopi-goldburg.html)

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drawlins27 (Post 1352344)
Personally, I don't buy into the excuse of its his culture and he didn't know any better.

I grew up in the south where there was dog fighting and cock fighting going on but I still know that it is wrong and morally reprehensible. It was a personal decision he made to engage in this type of behavior. He knew it was wrong or he wouldn't have tried to hide it or lie about it. In the whole nature vs nurture debate, I believe that its a combination of the two that makes a person who they are. But there comes a time when you have to stop blaming your environment and take some responsibility for your own actions.
people are giving you thumbs up but remember this is not something he started doing when he turned pro.. he has been doing it and was exposed to it at an early age.. just like kids with violent video games.. you can become numb to whats really going on, and there are studies to back that up... we need to take steps to stop this behavior early so that these young men who are in this can have a better perception why its wrong. Take a step back and please look at the evolution of this.. as we can see from all of this discussion it must me easy to point finger at al adult and and gripe about horrible of a crime it is, than take the time to educate the little ones in your neighborhood before they get caught up in such horrible activities...

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by its stephyylove (Post 1354169)
Well in my opinion Whoopi has a point (dont yell at me yettt!) if it was something small.. like a habit or something like we Bostonians don't pronounce our R's and we call chocolate sprinkles jimmies. Not fighting dogs.. If you fight any animal than you should know that that is wrong.. If you grew up with someone always saying it was right almost as if you were brainwashed into it then I guess if you were young that could be an excuse but wouldnt you notice how much pain they are in? He electrecuted a dog! You have to know that is wrong.. If you seriously think that that is okay then you have to be pretty d*mn disturbed.
exactly just liek those white people who hate black people and are taught to hate them from a young age... this is something that took hundreds of years for white america to get out of the habit of and still plagues both whites and blacks today... it takes a lot to unlearn hateful habits like these and most of the time it people had to get out of that subculture to learn that treating black bad was wrong, (like moving from mississipi to chicago back in the day) then come home and see it in a different like imagine what a mind opening experience it was and how difficult it is to make a stand or even admit that you were wrong an a personal level... you really have to dig deep and get to the root of the problem

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsygal37 (Post 1353154)
Well, I didn't watch the clip or the View, but did read the post and posted what I read. Taken out of context maybe, but how Woopi can identify dog fighting as a "heritage" thing because this is what she is saying by stating that it's from the deep south (Virginia) where Vick grew up, is beyond me. I know if I lived in Virginia, I certainly wouldn't want anyone going around blaming my state for Vick's behavior. Let him be responsible for his actions. Maybe, his upbringing PERIOD had something to do with it, but certainly not the fact that he was brought up in the south and I think it's ridiculous for that fact to have even been brought up by Whoopi. Elaine
Honey I am sorry to tell you but there are so many cultural differences in th US today with people of different races and income brackets. There are things that I will do that you would never do and never be introduced to. There are many things that I eat and ate as a child (example:chitterlings (sp)) that you would never have thought to eat. cultural differences exist... sorry to say.. if you weren't brought up in the area of VA that fights dogs how would you know? I would never have known if I hadn't taken time to hang around neighborhoods and people that my parents never let me hang around... see is believing, sometimes when you don't see a problem its easy to say it doesn't exists. Now you know that it exists in Va.

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCHIE (Post 1354212)
Anyone who tries and defend Vick by saying he grew up in the South or
it's a cultural thing is just plain defending him.
His culture and the state where he lived should be up in arms defending themselves.
To say something like this states everyone else who is of color or lives
in the state where he is from is an animal abuser. One would have to be without brains to
believe such bull.
He did what he did because of who he is. A sick man who needs to be
accountable for his actions. Period!
I personally hope he gets the max the law will allow.
You say this as if he is the only one doing it.. there are MANY kids doing it today and they need help learning how wrong it is. Its easy to blame one man but even more difficult to be part of a solution

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:32 AM
ps. none of my comments were attacking anyone on a personal level just the subject matter...

Be a part of the solution...

Kisses!

crystalsmom 09-06-2007 11:32 AM
I must say I do remember many many more that lived in the ghetto filled with drug dealings and shootings but made that atmosphere change their life for the better and rose above it. I hate race discrimination but this is not what we are talking about in the Vick case even if he tries to play the 'race card'
JMHO

JCarlson2004 09-06-2007 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCHIE (Post 1354288)
Not defending, just offering some possible reasons for the basis of his way of thinking and viewing it...the wider gray area, not just, you defend him or condemn him, no inbetween. There are issues here other than just "guilty or not guilty."


Remember, this is a high profile person making millions of $$$ not just
some low life looking to make a fast buck by dog fighting.
He was in it for only two reasons.
1. Hates and has no respect for an animal. To torture an innocent
animal a human being can not be all there. Something in his makeup is missing. Especially someone in the lime light who our youth today look up to.
2. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I see no gray area in this case. The man knew right from wrong no
matter what anyone says. His head is not in the sand, so too speak.
He can read and write. He knows dog fighting is illigel. He took a chance
and got caught. He's been doing this for years. The man deserves
everything that awaits him and I hope it's plenty.
I agree. :thumbup:

crystalsmom 09-06-2007 11:37 AM
We both posted at the same time and I agree with that too!!

drawlins27 09-06-2007 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Princesa (Post 1354326)
people are giving you thumbs up but remember this is not something he started doing when he turned pro.. he has been doing it and was exposed to it at an early age.. just like kids with violent video games.. you can become numb to whats really going on, and there are studies to back that up... we need to take steps to stop this behavior early so that these young men who are in this can have a better perception why its wrong. Take a step back and please look at the evolution of this.. as we can see from all of this discussion it must me easy to point finger at al adult and and gripe about horrible of a crime it is, than take the time to educate the little ones in your neighborhood before they get caught up in such horrible activities...
I'm not sure what him turning pro has to do with anything, I'm sure he did engage in this type of behavior all of his life. But he cannot use the environment he grew up in to excuse his actions. He obviously already knew it was wrong or he would not have done what he did to try and hide his involvement. This was a choice he made, it was not a choice that was made for him.

JCarlson2004 09-06-2007 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drawlins27 (Post 1354394)
I'm not sure what him turning pro has to do with anything, I'm sure he did engage in this type of behavior all of his life. But he cannot use the environment he grew up in to excuse his actions. He obviously already knew it was wrong or he would not have done what he did to try and hide his involvement. This was a choice he made, it was not a choice that was made for him.
Excellent post. :thumbup:

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalsmom (Post 1354374)
I must say I do remember many many more that lived in the ghetto filled with drug dealings and shootings but made that atmosphere change their life for the better and rose above it. I hate race discrimination but this is not what we are talking about in the Vick case even if he tries to play the 'race card'
JMHO
Its not really the race card mama its cultural learning and social environment. I too know people have have mad a change to get out of those environments but many more who get stuck in them. This is why i say those who get out should try to throw back a little knowledge as well for others. This is how all other social issues were attack and changes came about. Putting one man in jail is not gonna scare these kids straight. It hasn't in the past.. but taking time to make sure the proper things are learned by the young generations who will get enticed by this will help bring about a change.

La Princesa 09-06-2007 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drawlins27 (Post 1354394)
I'm not sure what him turning pro has to do with anything, I'm sure he did engage in this type of behavior all of his life. But he cannot use the environment he grew up in to excuse his actions. He obviously already knew it was wrong or he would not have done what he did to try and hide his involvement. This was a choice he made, it was not a choice that was made for him.
I thin you missed the point of what i said... if someone accuses me of anything even murder i would get a lawyer as well and he would let me know not to say anything weather I am guilty or not.. That is not hiding involvement.. That is not giving you information and people do that all the time. Nothing excuses his actions he is guilty we all know that he admitted that...I am not excusing his actions. I am saying that the problem is bigger than he is and we need to stop point finger and name calling, especially us dog lovers and find a way to educate the culture of people it affects. when i say i defend him i also defend the other ignorant so and so's that are into this until someone steps in to teach them that this is wrong. its easy for most of us to type something hateful but not so easy to help bring about a real change.. thas all I am saying.

crystalsmom 09-06-2007 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Princesa (Post 1354401)
Its not really the race card mama its cultural learning and social environment. I too know people have have mad a change to get out of those environments but many more who get stuck in them. This is why i say those who get out should try to throw back a little knowledge as well for others. This is how all other social issues were attack and changes came about. Putting one man in jail is not gonna scare these kids straight. It hasn't in the past.. but taking time to make sure the proper things are learned by the young generations who will get enticed by this will help bring about a change.
You're right putting him in jail will not scare these kids straight BUT not putting him in jail will teach them they can get away with it too.

drawlins27 09-06-2007 12:02 PM
Let's be very careful not to make this an issue about race. White, black, purple, blue, it makes no difference in this particular argument. The argument was that he grew up in the south, a culture where there is dog fighting. People of all races fight dogs here.

Punishing him will not stop others from doing it, but he must face the penality for his actions. I agree that the issue is bigger than him, but he has brought the issue into the spotlight.

La Princesa 09-06-2007 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalsmom (Post 1354423)
You're right putting him in jail will not scare these kids straight BUT not putting him in jail will teach them they can get away with it too.
I never said he shouldnt go to jail but I am sorry I remember seeing stuff like this one the news where dogs were taken and people were arrested and it didnt stop it. So what I am saying is that by taking time to make sure the proper things are learned by the young generations who will get enticed by this will help bring about a change.


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