Breed Specific Legislation

[Annie&Badger]

I've been reading a lot recently on the Dangerous Dogs Act we have in the UK as this pertains directly to my puppy (Yorkies are often victims of attacks here - particularly by the bull terrier breeds). The law here makes it illegal to own American Pitbulls, Japanese tosas, Dogo Argentinos and Fila Brazilieros.

The law in Germany is even tighter and pretty much any fighting breed is now banned including Staffordshire Bull Terriers and any of the mastiffs. Those that are already in the country have to pass a strict 'temperament' test which involves two hours with a court appointed official. Those that do not pass the test are euthanised and those that do have to undergo mandatory neutering/spaying and have to be muzzled and leashed at all times they are outside

What are your views? Is this legislation too much? There is talk in the UK of banning even more now because these dogs are often used as 'weapons' by drug dealers and gangs

My personal view is that it's a good thing. These breeds were designed as fighting dogs and no matter how much training and care they may receive, it's never enough to counteract the innate viciousness in their temperaments

[cheryl000]

I agree that it is a good thing. My little sister was bit when she was 7 years old. All she was doing was riding her bike outside infront of our house.
A couple months ago our neighbor (we share a yard in a duplex) was babysitting her brother's pitt bull mix. The dog was a family dog, they have 3 girls and have raised it since it was a puppy. So I know the dog isn't raised to be agressive, some people say it is how it's raised. It had even been to our house and played with our pug a few times. Anyways, I feed my dogs outside in the morning and I shut the gate leaving the pittbull in the front of the yard and my dogs in the back. When I put the dog food in the bowl I noticed the Pitt bull growing from the fence in the front yard. I kind of figured that some dogs growl when food is around. But I still didn't trust her completely after I heard that growl and made sure to keep the dogs seperated. They ate their food and everything was fine.
The next evening I had Brandy in my arms and I was about to take her to the vet, I was in the front yard about to leave and my husband was in the house. The neighbor's son left the back gate open as he walked through to move some trashcans and then the pitt bull jumped on my pug and started biting him. She left some really nasty bloody bites. They are both fixed. I still can't figure out why she snapped out of nowhere they used to play together, but I hear it happens with them. I don't trust them and I never will. I just think that there is something not wired right in their heads. I get scared whenever I see one and I worry about my son and my dogs around them. They have the capability to not just bite, but kill. And to me that makes them dangerous.

[Breeze]

This is one thing I am against VERY strongly due to the misconception of large breeds, lies and fear by the media and peoples lack of actual facts. I am a boxer ower and they are one of the breeds that could be affected. Read, learn and educate.......

ALL types of dogs can be dangerous despite their breed, I feel things like this give people the wrong type of fears and securities. Type pit bull into search here and see how this topic gets heated by both sides.

[Annie&Badger]

I can't see why a boxer would be affected. It seems ridiculous to add them to this type of legislation. From my experience of boxers, they're very gentle and affectionate. I hear consistently though about the bull terrier breeds, specifically the American Pitbull and how vicious they are and how quickly they turn. It's all very well saying people are 'misinformed' but the stories like the one above and one awful story I read yesterday about someone on YT having two yorkies being murdered within five minutes by the same pitbull speak for themselves. I don't think people are being hysterical at all. The fighting breeds are pointless and should be bred out completely

[Breeze]

This person says it all so better than me. (boxers are affected as many think they are pit bulls which puts them in the "pit bulll type category").
FORCED BREED EXTINCITON

It was with great sadness and great outrage, that we read and article on the forced extinction of certain breeds of dogs. Why, when we fight so hard to preserve species that are naturally, or due to man's interference becoming extinct, do we allow the forced extinction of man's best friend. It is man's greed and vanity that has placed God's creatures in this perilous state and it is man in his self-righteous arrogance, that deems himself worthy to decide who should live and who should not.

Some of the so-called undesirables on this list of dogs include the Pit Bull, the American Bull Terrier, the Kuvas, the Fila Brasiliero, the Rhodesian Ridgeback just to name a few. Certain countries including Germany, Holland and Britain have passed legislation requiring all litters to be registered and all pups to be neutered so as to move towards the permanent extinction of these breeds. In North America, government is already discussing the possible ban of "protection dog" breeds being owned by family or regular civilians. These dogs include the German Shepherd's Dog, the Rottweiler, the Doberman, the Malinois, the Dutch Shepherd's Dog etc. I have no doubt that these well-loved and dedicated animals will soon join the above on the forced extinction list.

Call to mind the German Shepherd's Dog, protector of hearth and home, guardian of children and flock. World renowned for his use in war efforts as sentry dog, scout dog, tracker dog and medic dog. Well known and utilized the world over as Rescue K-9, Therapy K-9, Assistance dog for the disabled, blind and deaf. Used extensively in narcotics detection, weapons detection, explosives detection, environmental detection and criminal apprehension. A dog of unquestioning loyalty, intelligence and devotion. Now imagine a world without this dog.

It is time for those who know to take a stand and for those who don't to wake up and smell the coffee. Every time government legislates something we loose another little freedom. The outbreak of dog bites today is man's fault not dogs. Weak people, weak breeders, weak handlers and weak parents have created the situation that exists today. If I as a child had gone up to a strange dog and been snapped at, I would have been disciplined by my parents for approaching a strange dog. This doesn't mean that dogs should snap at everything but it means people need to be more responsible with themselves and their children. If a dog growls at a child, the dog should be corrected for growling, the child should be disciplined for teasing the dog and both the handler and the parents must be aware of that which they are responsible for.

Weak and undisciplined breeders have caused an influx of weak nerved, brain dead dogs. Miss-informed trainers teach the miss-informed public. People come to us to have their dogs trained for protection work. They apply themselves with diligence to the part where the dog bites. NO ONE wants to do tracking or obedience under stress. No one wants to apply a correction to their dog if they move out of position in obedience work. We are affectionate to our dogs, we praise our dogs when they do well, but if you ask your dog to do a command, which he fully understands and he refuses, he must be corrected. If you are not in control of your dog, you are out of control.

When we have people here for training we often go off-site and are always witness to undisciplined dogs with undisciplined handlers in an undisciplined public. On one occasion we stopped outside a coffee shop for a break and sat outside the store with two German Shepherds and one Malinois. The dogs were all placed in a down stay. Two young people in their twenties walked out and upon seeing the dogs began pushing each other into the dogs and yelling, "look they're going to bite you". Our dogs simply looked at them and stayed in position. Had the dogs perceived a threat and alerted on these people, they would have been deemed vicious animals. Another time we went into a large pet store where our dogs walked at fuss and behaved in a mannerly fashion. Another women had two Australian Cattle dogs, one young and one older dog, dragging her through the store and lashing out non-stop at every animal they saw. The young dog learned this poor behavior from the older dog. At no time did this woman correct her dogs, she simply dragged them to another aisle where they were not able to see other dogs. If these dogs break free of her and attack another dog or, a child, it is not the dogs' fault but the handlers.

Many of you may not like the breeds you see on the list, but they have received a bad wrap due to poor handling, poor breeding and irresponsible ownership. The Pit Bull is an excellent example. These dogs are not naturally people aggressive they are animal aggressive and if they are well socialized around animals, as with any other dog, they are solid around other animals. The owner and trainer of a Pit Bull make it people aggressive or animal aggressive. Brain dead people make brain dead dogs. Certain breeds have inherent breed characteristics. If you don't want an animal aggressive dog, don't buy a breed used to hunt large game and always socialize your dog well around other animals. If you don't want a protective dog, don't buy a herding or otherwise protective breed. If you just want a pet, then please, buy a lap dog, remembering that many of the small lap breeds are nippy. Don't allow your dogs to run at large, especially if you have no off- lead control. Don't feel it is your right or your child's right to pet a stranger's dog. You wouldn't like it if a stranger hugged your child, we don't like it when you, without permission, pet our dogs. If you want to pet a dog, buy your own, and for God's sake accept the responsibility that goes with it.

In my opinion, we have permitted for far too long, the weak minded people in our society to pass laws, which rob us of our freedoms, among which are our freedoms to think and make mistakes. It is time for us, who have stayed quiet for so long to stand up for our rights while we still have some. Orwell's 1984, where he speaks of a mindless society is not too far around the corner. We have permitted the very weak in our society to impose their distorted views in our schools, in our churches, in our public places, in our homes and now upon our dogs. The loss of a true companion and friend such as the dog will bring about the end to our freedoms. Responsibility cannot be legislated. Just take a look at what our world has become by letting these politicians and people make it into what they deem a better place. The Prozac they have given our children, they now tell us to give our dogs. We have to, if we are serious begin to stand up for the truth. The very people that breed weak, unstable dogs are the people that want to legislate and control our rights over dogs that are bred properly.

Remember laws have no conscience, nor do they have a thought process. What once was passed to protect, is now passed to control. I hope sincerely, that this letter is read globally by those of us that believe our dogs, our homes, our families, our schools and our churches should be left untouched by the cancer that is rapidly growing in our once great country. I do not want, nor will I live in a world of weak, spineless individuals who through legislation and special interest groups want to destroy the norm, thus making their weakness and distorted view the norm.

What is happening around us is frightening because the pace of this madness is increasing. Innocent people that have large breeds are often looked upon as being criminal. The American Pit Bull Terrier was the first breed of dog to serve as a war dog for the United States of America in World War I. Of course many will say that was then, the world has changed, this is now. I will agree the world has changed and it is time to change it back. Back to the foundation of responsibility where our children learn to read and write in school, where our homes and families were our business and our responsibility. Where our churches were not afraid to preach the truth and our politicians were responsible and respectable individuals not criminals. A time when responsible people took responsibility for their actions and government legislation had nothing to do with our rights and privileges.... A time when government worked for us, the people. A time when we were not over-ridden by them..... A time when the inmates where not permitted to run the asylum.

Rights and privileges such as owning a dog is the responsibility of the individual. If he proves he cannot own a dog, or parent a child, or drive a car, or own a firearm, then the law will decide on him as an individual not on the masses as it is being done today. We didn't move when they took away our right to raise our children responsibly. We didn't move when they took away our rights to protect ourselves. Perhaps we'll grumble now when they threaten to take away our best friend and guardian. If we don't then we will get exactly what we deserve. An unfortunately and sadly, noble breeds of service dogs will suffer and get what they don't deserve. Those weak ones who would bring us down to their level have created a world up side down, where people are afraid to be strong, afraid to be individuals, afraid to stand up for their beliefs. Soon even letters like this will be deemed to be unsuitable.

We, in closing, anxiously await any and all replies to this letter and hope that as you reach down and pat the head of the noble creature that shares your life, that you will not permit this atrocity to go on any longer without confronting it. It is always harder to swim upstream, but the reward is the mountaintops and the river source.

by Mike McConnery

[Breeze]

My point is ALL breeds can be dangerous if not raised properly, people are fooling themselves if they do not realize this. We are told by the media pit bulls are mean, so are german shepards, dobermans.... You never hear of the Lab attack as it would bring no fancy headlines as a pitbull attack does.


I used to have a link which you can find if you do a search here on YT for pit bulls. It had how misleading newspaper headlines can be such as "Man in hospital after pit bull attack!" When what really happened was a man saw a dog he "thought" was a pit bull walking down the street and decided to run away and ran in front of a van and got hit by the van and ended up in hospital. The dog never left the owners side but boy you would think the dog attacked him from the headline. You cannot believe all you read. I have seen many posts here of yorkies attacked by several different breeds, they all can be dangerous should we ban all breeds, where do we stop?????

I used to feel the same way until I spent hour upon hour researching and I found out the truth and learned the facts. I hope everyone takes this time as well or it could be your best friend facing the same fate. Think about it.

[Annie&Badger]

Thank you for posting that. It make some interesting points. I don't consider myself a harsh person by any means but there seems no point to these breeds at all. It's a contradiction in terms saying they'll become 'extinct' when they were bred for a specific man-made purpose anyway. In terms of the irresponsibility of the press, I would say that while that certainly does happen, the real stories far outweigh the 'hyped' ones. The stories I've read are horrific. It seems to me that there's a lot of breast-beating on the part of people who own/breed these dogs and yet there's been little or no movement on their part that I've heard about that addresses these serious concerns. Instead it's all a knee-jerk reaction to their 'civil liberties' and 'human rights'. What about my right to walk my dog down the road without constantly having to look over my shoulder for the next twelve year old boy 'walking' a two-hundred pound mastiff? Am I really the one that's being unreasonable? Who is supplying these dogs to people? Why has every single one I've ever seen looked like it's totally uncontrollable? They're aggressive and nasty animals and they were bred for a purpose: to kill, maim and injure. I'm sorry but that's a fact and that's why certain European governments have moved to outlaw them completely. They're not just acting on 'impulse'. They've had the right amount of input from the right sorts of experts. I have yet to meet anyone who could tell me why they own a bull terrier. I cannot think of a reason other than it's a symbol of the owner's own subverted aggression. They're not easy to handle, they're far too powerful and wilful. It just seems pointless. And as has been pointed out before, they are hard-wired in their brains somewhere to attack. They even admit it themselves... their breeds can only just about get on with other dogs and animals but need focused training to get to a 'tolerance' level. And very few fans of these breeds can ever explain why it is that a perfectly acceptable bull terrier who's never had problems will one day just turn round and go savage. It's because it is in the natures. It's a simple fact that they are latent killers and not suitable companions for human beings or other animals

It really irritates me when I hear about children being attacked (unprovoked I might add. I'm not talking about children who approach dogs who haven't asked for permission to do so) or yorkies being savaged or people being mauled to death like that girl in California and the owner of the dog in question turns round and goes "oh but it was totally out of character. It's not my dog's fault. He's so loving with me".... totally unacceptable. The sooner these breeds are off the planet the better. If their breeders care so much they'd make more of a concerted effort to clean up their blood lines and train them before sending them out to homes that should be properly vetoed. Saying that it's a 'shame' that everyone's being so 'hysterical' and 'misinformed' is a ridiculous shirking of direct responsibility. When these breeds go, they'll have no-one to blame but the people who first devised these awful animals from the start

And I get what you're saying about labradors. There's a recent story about a woman in France who had the world's first face transplant after her lab attacked her one night. Even a yorkie needs correct handling and disciplining. These are domesticated wild animals after all. The point is that this is unusual behaviour for these breeds: but it isn't for the pit bull or bull terriers. Personally, I think all the bull terrier breeds should go along with any of the fighting breeds like the loathsome pressa canaria. I'm pretty sure the legislation will be tightened though because 'pit bull like' or whatever other terminology they use is just ridiculous. A boxer is not a pitt bull or a bull terrier and only an idiot would confuse the two. I'm pretty sure this is a bit of hysteria designed by the pro-pitt lobby to get people scared and onto their side

[Breeze]

I'm sorry but you did not get my point at all. Please research . I am not crazy, all I can say is this troubles me and truly hurts, many YT members are also owners of the breeds you are so easy to put down, remember them, read the other threads.

Think of all the misconceptions people have about yorkies (yappy, mean ankle biters...................................), spend an hour on a pit bull or boxer forum and tell me they do not feel the same way we do about our presious yorkies. They are dogs!

PUNISH THE OWNERS NOT THE BREED !!!

Please listen, I really only want to teach other to protect these innocent creatures.

[Breeze]

Also I am very curious to know where you are getting your facts, the tainted newspapers, old wife tales....? This is what needs to stop even on the internet it is impossible to find true studies as the few say "pit bull type" attacks which means "several" breeds. You may say only an idiot would confuse a boxer for a pit bull, maybe you can tell the difference but 9 out of 10 people I see daily on our walks cannot, every day people comment me on my pit bull.

All your concerns would be fixed if it was owners that took the blame and were responsible for their dogs. Dog owners need to be responsible; Why should these innocent animals pay for people's stupidity?

This is all I am saying as otherwise I would probably be banned. lol

[Annie&Badger]

Originally Posted by Breeze

I'm sorry but you did not get my point at all. Please research . I am not crazy, all I can say is this troubles me and truly hurts, many YT members are also owners of the breeds you are so easy to put down, remember them, read the other threads.

Think of all the misconceptions people have about yorkies (yappy, mean ankle biters...................................), spend an hour on a pit bull or boxer forum and tell me they do not feel the same way we do about our presious yorkies. They are dogs!

PUNISH THE OWNERS NOT THE BREED !!!

Please listen, I really only want to teach other to protect these innocent creatures.

I did get your point and I don't think it's fair to try and assume that because I'm fairly new on this forum I'm not 'respecting' other YT members by not reading their thoughts or opinions. I don't need to subscribe to views I don't agree with in order to feel welcome. Thanks very much

Secondly, make no assumptions about my lack of knowledge. I've done a dirth of reading on this very issue because it's one that affects me very much. On any day out walking with my two pound puppy, I encounter no less than between three to six bull terrier breeds. All of which I would think (and I'm by no means an amateur when it comes to animals) are uncontrollable, unleashed and posing a serious and possibly life-threatening risk to me and my dog. I think you're missing my point somewhat - it's not about hurt feelings or protection of innocent creatures. This is a serious issue made even more so by the growing anti-social behaviour of most western cultures across the globe. People think they have a right to anything nowadays including the right to own what amounts to nothing more than a killer on a leash. No amount of 'socialisation' and 'careful interaction' will alter that fact. Look around some of the pro-pitt websites. Look at their training instructions: "must be supervised when playing with children", "must be supervised carefully when encountering other animals", "do not put in territorial situations", "do not provoke", "may attack other dogs"... this is not a normal animal and I don't understand why anyone who truly cares about animals would encourage and support the maintenance of a breed which was designed solely as an implement of the worst kind of animal cruelty. I'm not going to be pressurised into feeling bad that I'm not thinking about these 'innocent creatures' because I have read up about it and I do know what I'm talking about. I think they're awful and I can't wait until the day they're all gone

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by Annie&Badger

I did get your point and I don't think it's fair to try and assume that because I'm fairly new on this forum I'm not 'respecting' other YT members by not reading their thoughts or opinions. I don't need to subscribe to views I don't agree with in order to feel welcome. Thanks very much

Secondly, make no assumptions about my lack of knowledge. I've done a dirth of reading on this very issue because it's one that affects me very much. On any day out walking with my two pound puppy, I encounter no less than between three to six bull terrier breeds. All of which I would think (and I'm by no means an amateur when it comes to animals) are uncontrollable, unleashed and posing a serious and possibly life-threatening risk to me and my dog. I think you're missing my point somewhat - it's not about hurt feelings or protection of innocent creatures. This is a serious issue made even more so by the growing anti-social behaviour of most western cultures across the globe. People think they have a right to anything nowadays including the right to own what amounts to nothing more than a killer on a leash. No amount of 'socialisation' and 'careful interaction' will alter that fact. Look around some of the pro-pitt websites. Look at their training instructions: "must be supervised when playing with children", "must be supervised carefully when encountering other animals", "do not put in territorial situations", "do not provoke", "may attack other dogs"... this is not a normal animal and I don't understand why anyone who truly cares about animals would encourage and support the maintenance of a breed which was designed solely as an implement of the worst kind of animal cruelty. I'm not going to be pressurised into feeling bad that I'm not thinking about these 'innocent creatures' because I have read up about it and I do know what I'm talking about. I think they're awful and I can't wait until the day they're all gone

Sorrry I was wasting my time. Too bad really But you know what we are still here supporting and fighting.

[Breeze]

My boxer

[Annie&Badger]

Aww! She's cute! Is it a girl? My uncle had one called 'Socks'. He was the loveliest, most gentle dog and all the others I've ever met have been like great big gentle goofballs. I don't know why anyone would confuse that dog with a pit bull. It looks nothing like a bull terrier at all. The other great dog is the English bull dog. That's often confused with the bull terrier too. Again, my experience of bull dogs has always been great. Both them and the boxer are very laid back and wonderful with kids and other animals. It's really unfair of the pit lobby to try and lump them in with the bull terrier issue because it's sooo a totally different dog. I would never consider these dogs a threat to anyone and I've never heard anything negative about them either

[Breeze]

Yes, she is a girl my boxer Breeze, where I get my username. They are the biggest goofballs . Thank you!

[cheryl000]

I believe people who have pitt bulls should have them registered and pay fees for having them. This will put them in the hands of people who really care about them and are responsible. Right now they are one of the cheapest and worst bred dogs readily available. If people had to pay $100 to get the dog registered then only responsible owners would have them and it would weed out the poorly bred dogs.
Yes, other dogs do bite. But the difference is the pitt bull has the CAPABILITY to kill an adult. A yorkie and a lab can not. As for the lab and the face transplant lady: she had taken some drugs which numbed her face and fell asleep when her dog had started chewing her face. She didn't even notice until she went to smoke a cigarette. I think she even kept the dog. Almost any animal with teeth could have done that, but again, it did not even come close to killing her nor do I really think it was trying kill her. Labs are known to chew on things and maybe it kept chewing because she did not push him off because she could not feel him.
Laws are created to protect our people. I don't really believe the story about the government just wanting to take away our rights. We should have the right to our own safety. I should have the right to walk around the block without fear. Man created Pitt Bulls to kill, so I believe it is hard wired in them just like how our yorkies are bred to chase. I think that we hear about pitt bulls in the news more because those dogs attack to kill and are capable of it. You won't hear in the news of a real lab or a yorkie "attack" because people can fight those dogs off and those dogs will usually stop but pitt bulls keep coming back and it usually takes many people to stop them when they do go nuts. I even read a story where a pitt bull killed it's owner in her apartment for no reason, it was an older lady. I do not blame the people attacked. The pitt bull that attacked my Bailey was very well loved and even had 3 young children in the family. I blame the people who created such a vicious dog so many years ago.
I would never own one the way I would never own a poisonous snake. Someone in your family is likely to get bit at one time or another. IMO it's playing with fire. Sorry if I offended anyone in this post. I know that everyone here loves their dogs. But these are just my opinions because I love my dogs and my family and I'm concerned whenever I see a pitt bull.