YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community


Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us.

Go Back   YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community > All Else > Off Topic Discussions
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-27-2006, 12:33 PM   #1
YT 1000 Club Member
 
HisNameIsHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,119
Cry My Ferrets are Sick

My baby ferret I just bought has a horrible upper respiratory infection and has passed ADV (ferret version of parvo virus) to my older ferret. The vet has told me that it is very unlikely that my other ferret will survive the parvo.. So some intense prayers would be a blessing.. Don't bother reading through everything else unless you really feel like reading forever.. I only wrote it all down bc it helps me to get it off my chest..

I posted before about my new ferret baby I brought home on the 24th of this month but things have really taken a turn for the very worst. The day I picked him out I noticed he sneezed a lot more than normal and that he was very lethargic while I held him but the pet store people just said that that's his personality. When I asked about the sneezing and the weird noises that he was making they said he makes them just to be silly and that he is perfectly healthy and ready to go home. So $140 later I brought him home. I introduced him to my family, took pictures and let him get to know my other ferret. Everything was great until yesterday when I checked on my baby ferret and saw that both his nostrils were packed tight with ooze and his eyes were runny and yellow.. So I took him back to the pet store I got him from to ask some questions. The owner was out of town bc of some deaths in his family so one of the other employees was there and told me she didn't have a clue and told me I could probably just trade him in for another one. That to me was very unsettling bc why would I want to pick out another ferret from the very same litter that was probably sick too? So I told her I didn't want to do that. She took my name and number and told me she would give it to the owner, Joe, when he got back and he would give me a call. (didn't happen) So I made an emergency appt. at a vet about an hour from where I live called Blue Ridge Vet bc they are the only vet within hours and hours who have vets who specialize in ferrets. Well the appointment was horrible. I decided this morning right before I left that I had to bring both of my ferrets bc my older ferret wasn't himself and was sneezing and had pooped out some totally disgusting mucus like poop.. So I brought both and after an hour of questions, needles, fecal tests, bloodwork and tears the vet concluded that the baby ferret has a horrible upper respiratory infection, was extremely malnurished and dehydrated and needed immediate warm fluids by injection. And she said that the baby ferret is a 'carrier' of ADV (ferret version of the parvo virus) and that he has passed it onto my older ferret. She said that a lot of baby ferrets pick it up and never suffer from the virus and simply pass it on to other ferrets (btw my doggies and kitties can't get it). The worst part came when she explained to me that there is no treatment for the parvo in my older ferret (1yr old) and that very, very few adult ferrets survive it. At this point I'm falling apart and can't stop crying. They ran a fecal test which came back negative for any parasites or abnormal bacteria and they explained that my older ferrets mucus like yellow feces is caused by the ADV. She also explained that all I could do for him is give him an antibiotic, just like the baby, to help fight off the upper respitory infection he's beginning to show signs of and attempt to keep him eating and drinking. She also gave me syringes to give him pedialite and gatorade if he stops drinking and some special wet food to feed him by hand if he refuses to eat. She had to inject some warm fluids into the baby ferret bc when you tug/pull on his skin it wouldn't snap back into place, it just stayed pulled back That was really tough bc everytime they pushed more into him he cried and writhed even more..

We had plans to go away for the weekend to see my mom get her All-Star pin (we're in 4-H.. not sure if anybody even knows what that is) at Jacksons Mill, WV but can't go now bc I have to keep an hourly watch on them. My mom has been waiting her whole life to get this award and I can't see her recieve it..

I went back to the pet store today bc the owner was back and spoke to him and he made photo copies of my vet bill ($170.00) and said he would fax/email them to Wilcox? I'm guessing that this is a middle man ferret broker perhaps? He said if he was sick Wilcox? was responsible. He asked me to call him back tonight around 7 so I plan to.

I'm really upset bc everybody claims to not be at fault for my ferrets illnesses and I find that to be rediculus. The Marshall guaranatee only cover genetic defects, not viruses or influenza etc. Dog Gone Pets claims it's Wilcox's fault. But all I know is that I paid $140 to by a ferret that was promised to have a clean bill of health. I then had to pay $170 for a vet visit. (which I didn't have enough money for and thank God the people there are so understanding and sweet and have worked out a paying program for me) And if my ferret stops eating and drinking I HAVE to rush him back to Blue Ridge where he will be put on an IV and put under a 24 hour watch which costs $300 per day. And since my bf and I have to stay home and take care of the ferrets every hour by the hour we can't make it to our weekend trip which we already payed for and we can't get our money back, $155. And beyond all the financial losses I have to miss my mother getting her pin and my beloved ferret is unlikely to survive this virus And I don't want to point fingers at anyone in this situation and I don't want to make anyone out to be the bad guy but I do feel that I deserve help. I feel very betrayed and left out in the cold. I only bought another ferret so my ferret would have a companion and now he's dying bc of it.. I feel so lost..
__________________
LeeAnn Harley
Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards
HisNameIsHarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Welcome Guest!
Not Registered?

Join today and remove this ad!

Old 01-27-2006, 12:42 PM   #2
& Bailey & Bella
Donating Member
 
rrosenberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,164
Cry

I'm sorry, for all the stuff you have going on... poor thing.
I did read it all~ But there is nothing they can do for either ferret? And they will both die? Is that what you said? That is horrible if I'm right.. Don't forget to tell the person when you call,,that NOW your other ferret is sick because of the sick one they sold you,,, Don't forget abt the purchase price when you mention the medical bills... I'm so sorry.. I hope I'm wrong on my understanding of their future.
__________________
Rhonda, Bailey, Josie and my angel Bella Rue'
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

~Anatole France~
rrosenberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 12:44 PM   #3
Lily Loves Maximus
Donating Member
 
lily's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,633
Default

Awww Sweetie, how sad!!!! Bless you heart! I am sending hugs and prayers your way.
__________________
Lily and Dawn
lily's mom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 12:53 PM   #4
YT 1000 Club Member
 
HisNameIsHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,119
Default

The vet said the baby ferret should survive his upper respiratory infection even though it is very bad. My older ferret however who has contracted the ADV has a very low chance of survival.. I love my ferret so much.. I really hope he can pull through.. When I went to the petstore I told Joe (the owner) every little detail and told him to call the vet and talk to her. (they already know each other bc he takes his ferrets to her too) The bill he photo copied and faxed/emailed to ?wilcox? included the bill for my older ferret too. I personally doubt that I will get any help in the end of all this and definately don't think I will be covered for my vet bills for either ferrets. Especially not for my older ferret even though the vet said he HAD to have gotten it from my new baby ferret. Bc I don't socialize him with any other ferrets and haven't had him outside and I haven't handled any other ferrets either. With the exception of wed night (25) when I took my ferret and my baby ferret to my aunts house to play with their new ferret (who was also purchased from the same pet store) So now we're watching my cousins ferret with crossed fingers hoping and praying that he doesn't get sick too..

As far as reciepts and bills.. I always save them.. So I'll have them at hand if needed.

Thank you for the concern and kind words .. Right now all I have is prayers to go on..
__________________
LeeAnn Harley
Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards
HisNameIsHarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 01:44 PM   #5
BANNED!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 9,999
Default

Im so sorry. How sad. I will keep both your Ferrets in my thoughts and prayers.
YorkieShadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 02:07 PM   #6
Yorkie Kisses are the Best!
Donating Member
 
red98vett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 33,590
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Oh no ....you just got that baby Ferret and I know how happy you were ...I'm so sorry - these pet stores should be accountable for the pets they sell and that's so sad for you - both your ferrets AND the money....and sorry about missing your moms ceremony....That's really awful and I AM so sorry. I know people get very attached to their ferrets...and I hope your older one is one of the lucky ones that CAN survive this.

Last edited by red98vett; 01-27-2006 at 02:11 PM.
red98vett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 05:29 PM   #7
YT 1000 Club Member
 
HisNameIsHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,119
Default

I just got off the phone with Joe, the owner of the pet shop and he made a lot of phone calls for me and talked to Marshalls who has agreed to pay the vet bill. Which is a good plus. But what I'm worried about is, what if over the weekend or later they don't get better or get worse and I have to take them back to the vet? I don't know if they're going to cover those too. I'm supposed to go pick up the paper work from Joe tomorrow morning (he wrote up a letter for me to send to Marshalls) and when I get there I'll ask him about whether they'll cover other bills if necessary. He said he could call them again so maybe I'll have him do that. I do feel a little relieved in the money department but as far as emotionally I'm still in the gutter. The baby is eating some and taking pedialite and gatorade every hour when I give him a syringe but he is still so dehydrated. His skin still won't snap back into place when you pull on it so I'm really worried but atleast he's still eating and drinking. My older ferret is getting worse.. He can barely eat what pieces of food I give him, he only drinks if I force pedialite down is throat and he won't even get up out of his hammock.. I'm going to give them their second round of antibiotic for their upper respiratory infections in a half an hour. And I'm going to get up every hour tonight to check up on them and give them pedialite and food..

Keep your fingers crossed..
__________________
LeeAnn Harley
Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards
HisNameIsHarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 05:43 PM   #8
Donating YT 10K Club Member
 
chattiesmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 17,674
Default

Oh, man, I am so very sorry. Ferrets are such fun critters. I sincerely hope that your adult is one of the exceptions and pulls through.

Since the pet shop owner has said that someone was going to pay the vet bills, get it in writing, asap,before they can change their mind. Don't let it turn into a he said/she said thing, your word against his.
chattiesmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 08:23 PM   #9
YT 1000 Club Member
 
HisNameIsHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,119
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by chattiesmom
Oh, man, I am so very sorry. Ferrets are such fun critters. I sincerely hope that your adult is one of the exceptions and pulls through.

Since the pet shop owner has said that someone was going to pay the vet bills, get it in writing, asap,before they can change their mind. Don't let it turn into a he said/she said thing, your word against his.
My thoughts exactly ^ I plan on getting everything worked out by tomorrow.

A plus for tonight.. My baby ferret is eating his ferret kibble on his own and drinking too. His skin is still not snapping back like it should but it's getting a little better bc he keeps getting pedialite/gatorade every hour. My adult ferret seems to be a little more active and fought my boyfriend and I off pretty hard a minute ago while we gave him his medicine (now that's more like him!) He too had some pedialite and has eaten some softened kibble on his own and has taken some water from his feeder bottle when I brought it to his face. And right as I came back upstairs to cover his cage for a couple of hours (I've decided not to even go to sleep.. it'll be easier than falling asleep and having to get back up every hour.. well atleast I think it will be) I checked his poo corner and he had his first relatively normal poo! I don't like the idea of getting myself all excited and then getting let down if things take a turn for the worst so I won't get to worked up.. But I do feel a little relieved seeing them both eating and drinking some on their own and poo'ing pretty normally. Ferrets usually have a bowel movement about every 2 hours, so even though they aren't going as often as normal I'm just glad they're going.. But especially with my adult ferret bc the vet told me that if I couldn't get his diearhea to stop he would be fully dehydrated within hours.. I'll keep praying that your prayers keep on doing the trick! Thanks so much everybody!
__________________
LeeAnn Harley
Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards
HisNameIsHarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 09:48 PM   #10
Donating YT 7000 Club Member
 
MeganS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 12,016
Blog Entries: 1
Default

aww, I'm so sorry LeeAnn! Thats terrible! I feel so badly for you. Good luck and let us kno what happens.
__________________
Megan
"I have my dreams, I have made plans." - The Pirate Queen

All Gave Some; Some Gave All
MeganS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 10:03 PM   #11
Donating YT Addict
 
luvmymonkies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 416
Default

LeeAnn, I am so very sorry for what you are going through. It is so heartbreaking. You are being a really great mommy through it all, I must say. You are doing everything you can do and that's what counts right now. I am praying that this will all continue to get better. Please keep us updated. I'm pretty sure I'll be here all night too
__________________
Heather, Monkey & Lil Maddie
Play in peace my sweet Maddie girl. We miss you so much. 1/02/06
luvmymonkies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 11:06 PM   #12
YT Addict
 
Kari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 257
Default

I am so sorry to hear this...bug hugs to you and kisses for your lil guys, dont know if you knoww this but marshalls is like a pupy mill but only ferrets. I got a ferret because it was so stnking cute and i loved hime very dearly and after i got him i did the research.
__________________
Kari
Willow Mia owns Me
Kari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2006, 04:26 AM   #13
YT 1000 Club Member
 
HisNameIsHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,119
Default Update

Thank you guys for all the support! It really does mean so much to me.. So many things have been going wrong but I always know I can count on the YT'ers here!

Both the ferrets made it through the night and recieved hourly amounts of pedialite and gatorade and have still been nibbling on their food on their own (although my older ferret has been taking to his water soaked-warmed up food better than his dry kibble so I'm sticking with that for now) and have been drinking their water too. This is honestly longer than I thought my older ferret was going to hold out and it was so refreshing this morning at 7am when I flipped the blanket off his cage and for the first time he perked up his head, crawled across his hammock, grabbed the cage bars and did his little "jail break" shake where he rattles the cage! hehe His eyes just look brighter and I really think he might pull through. His eyes seem brighter and he's more 'aware' of everything around him. I had to run the shower for the baby (his cage is in the bathroom for the time being so I can run the shower on hot to steam up the whole place to loosen him up) this morning bc his nose was packed with buildup again and his eyes were teary/green this morning but I can't expect that to clear up after only two doses of the medicine. He let me wash his face and clear his nose up and as soon as I did he took some orange gatorade and went straight to his food bowl! Lets keep hoping that they just keep improving!

Marshalls.. Yea, I know they're a ferret mill. . which is why I refuse to buy/feed my ferrets the marshall brand of food but it is very hard in this area to find ferrets who aren't marshalls. And the fact that I know he (the baby) had come from a great big producer was another factor in my decision not to trade him in for another one. Bc I just had this nasty feeling that the pet store would ship him back to Marshalls with the impression that they would nurse him back to health and them re-sell him and once he got there they would just destroy him.. I don't know if that's a realistic fear or not but something in my gut just told me.. "Don't leave him behind".. My new baby ferret has these two dots on his ear that are apparently the marshalls tattoo and if marshalls tattoos all of their ferrets then my older one isn't a marshalls bc he has no tats. So I'm not sure..
__________________
LeeAnn Harley
Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards

Last edited by HisNameIsHarley; 01-28-2006 at 04:29 AM.
HisNameIsHarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2006, 04:31 AM   #14
Yorkie Kisses are the Best!
Donating Member
 
red98vett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 33,590
Blog Entries: 1
Default

What a good mom - it looks like you're doing a wonderful job and GOOD LUCK - sounds very positive !
red98vett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2006, 04:38 AM   #15
YT 1000 Club Member
 
HisNameIsHarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red98vett
What a good mom - it looks like you're doing a wonderful job and GOOD LUCK - sounds very positive !
Thank you!!!!!!!!! I just went up to feed my adult some more wet kibble and he made a run for it! haha He bolted off my lap and took off for my basket of laundry! He's definately beginning to get his spunk back! But I won't let him run around like a mad man just yet.. In case he wore himself out too much and might get more dehydrated..

I don't like to get my hopes up only to have them dashed.. But I just can't help but smile right now just knowing that my little furballs are improving!
__________________
LeeAnn Harley
Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards
HisNameIsHarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




Google
 

SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167