This world we live in - Doom Prophets

[linz06]

I am with you all, I know something has to change. I try to be as environmentally-conscious as possible, but even I could improve.

The biggest thing we do is we recycle everything! The only thing we don't do is compost, but it's been on my mind. My family has always recycled bottles, but now I also recycle cardboard, paper, tin cans, plastic containers, everything. I have spent some time in the last few years in Mexico and it is really hard for me to throw things in the trash, because (at least the area where we stayed) there was no recycling. In NYC with my friends a few years ago, we walked for blocks and blocks holding our empty water bottles because we couldn't find a recycle bin. We have a few people contracted at my company right now from the USA and Mexico and while I was on vacation for a month, our recycle bin disappeared from our department. Paper was piling up on my desk so I found another in the administration area and brought it back. I was working late one night when the cleaners came by to empty garbage cans and I noticed all of these workers have just been throwing stacks and stacks of paper in the garbage just because the bin wasn't there! I know it's just a little part in the big picture but it bothers me! It is so easy to do.

I try to buy as many products as possible that are made in Canada, and I try to use natural products whenever possible.

Jim, I had no idea about palm oil! I am going to look into that. Thanks so much for the information!

As for cars and pollution, I think it's going to change in a big way. A few of our city buses now run on bio-diesel, made from canola oil, and canola is abundant around here! When we were in Europe recently, I watched a show where a guy is making his own bio-diesel and many London taxis are now using it.

More and more companies are now offering hybrid vehicles, and even electric cars. Chevrolet has the Volt, and I'm sure others will be following. My fiance and I carpool to work but it would be nice to have something more efficient and better for the environment, so we've been looking at our options.

[linz06]

By the way, the guy in London was using waste oil from nearby restaurants... oil that would just be thrown out and polluting the water systems. He gets the waste oil for free, does whatever he does with it, and then fills up the cabs. Now there's a forward thinker! It's one guy who is making a big difference.

[Woogie Man]

Glad to see you back, Gail. You brought up some good topics that definitely could be explored further. That's what's great about more people participating.

I know you were just posting the title of the doc in the thread. But, I wonder how many see that and just pass on it. There has been a fair number of views, though, so many do see but just don't post. That's what's sad about some threads here.

[Woogie Man]

Lindsey, nice to hear that Canada is making bio-diesel from sustainable oil. Europe made the palm oil crisis much worse by using it for a bio-diesel.They realized the ecological damage it was doing (actually creating a bigger carbon footprint than gas when all was said and done) and also that it wasn't such a great oil. Norway and the U.K. have since provided a few billion to restore the lands. Sadly, right behind this, China is cutting deals to destroy even more land for palm oil for both food and power uses. So, one step forward, two steps back .

[linz06]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Lindsey, nice to hear that Canada is making bio-diesel fro sustainable oil. Europe made the palm oil crisis much worse by using it for a bio-diesel.They realized the ecological damage it was doing (actually creating a bigger carbon footprint than gas when all was said and done) and also that it wasn't such a great oil. Norway and the U.K. have since provided a few billion to restore the lands. Sadly, right behind this, China is cutting deals to destroy even more land for palm oil for both food and power uses. So, one step forward, two steps back .

I had no idea it was being used for bio-diesel in Europe. Thanks for the info again. I have some learning to do!

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by linz06

I had no idea it was being used for bio-diesel in Europe. Thanks for the info again. I have some learning to do!

I didn't talk about that aspect in the palm oil thread, focusing instead on the food uses. That's something we can all do something about. Europe has realized its folly and I don't think any EU countries are currently using it (could be wrong on that one, though).

China, though, is plowing ahead with their plans, despite all that is known about this....and the local gov't is all too willing to make deals. So, they take money from Europe for the damage done to the forest, and then take money from China to do more damage. It's crazy. It's corruption on the Indonesian gov't part and the Chinese just don't seem to care what happens as long as they get what they want. It's this kind of behavior that makes me wonder why we choose to buy anything at all from them, yet we fatten their pockets everyday, giving them even more power.

[Woogie Man]

"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children".
~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

‪Hand Me Down World ~ BP Oil...

[gemy]

I'm not sure to say thanks for that video, or to sit still, while my fingers cry over that video. At one point when it said what you are seeing is the oil spilling right now into the ocean, I just gagged.

I'm not sure where we want to take this thread. If it is through links to videos as you have posted; a gentle nudge for those here who will read and click on the links/videos. Whether it is some simple down home ideas to reduce consumption on many levels.

But while the problems are huge, and the scale and vastness of them seem to be so beyond our personal ability to make a difference. I believe that awareness creates that first mini step back from a road that is full speed ahead to the point of no return for our planet.

I'd like to focus for a moment on water. Ever think where that "fresh" tap water you drink from comes from? Where does your sewage go? What exactly do the sewage plants treat, and pump back out to the consumers as "good potable water"?

Reducing consumption of water some simple and I hope relatively painless ways to do.

Brushing your teeth; don't run the tap water while you are brushing your teeth for two minutes, wet your brush, turn off tap, brush, turn on tap and rinse.

Immediately correct leaky faucets from that drip drip drip.

Showers; get wet, turn off, soap, and rinse off. And okay there will be days you need that longer shower with the massage jets, but everyday? really? Is there another solution for your aching muscles?

Washing machines; need a new one? Get a high energy efficient model.

Think about getting a good water filter, and stop buying the plastic water bottles. That water is coming in main from our aquafers, and once they are depleted it will take eons to replenish.

There are many more ideas I know, just thought I'd get the "ball" rolling

[Woogie Man]

I posted that video as a visual aid. We can type our fingers off, but sometimes need a visceral nudge. That is what we watched every day for weeks on end as I live in the area affected by the BP spill.

I'm not really sure where to take this, either. There are so many issues that I've been wondering if maybe a forum would be appropriate. Then we could focus better on single issues. Maybe this thread can better serve as an overview and we can go more in depth later.

You bring up the water issue. All your suggestions are good and I've been doing those things already. I really like our HE washing machine. But it's more than that. Water issues are very dependent on where we live, though conservation is always a good idea. I've never bought bottled water....couldn't see the sense in it. The only exception was right after Hurricane Katrina and then we had no choice.

So maybe we should just ask Ann if a forum for these type issues is possible. No matter what we say here, this thread will go away. A forum would be a place to keep these subjects available for everyone to read or contribute to.

[Woogie Man]

Thought I'd show another example of small choices making big differences.

There are over 200 million licensed drivers in the U.S. alone. Let's round that down to an even 200 million. If every one of those drivers was able to drive 500 miles less per year (a little less than 10 miles less per week), that would be a savings of 25 gallons of gas per driver (based on 20mpg). Doesn't sound like much, but that works out to be 5 BILLION gallons per year saved!

What's really astounding is that works out to 100 Billion pounds less of co2 being put into the atmosphere. How could that be? The link below explains how that is calculated.

How can 6 pounds of gasoline create 19 pounds of Carbon dioxide?

Small choices....big differences.

[Woogie Man]

Here's some photos that I think are interesting. They illustrate, in a stark way, just how big our impact is on Earth.

These are night time satellite views. This is our Earth, with all 7 billion of us on board. You can see where we gather. Every light is a city, complete with people, houses, roads, cars, power plants and other factories and stores. They are beautiful, almost like looking into the night sky. That's an illusion, though. Each little dot is not a star, but a city belching out its dirt.

For better or worse, you can see the sheer weight of mankind. This is why we all have to start making smarter choices in the things we do.

[gemy]

Very graphic.

Not sure if you saw the movie Burn Up, here it was on on Sunday on IFC> Fictional account of an oil crisis, and the politics involved in getting our leaders to move on meaningful legislation for CO2 emission control

The Alberta Tar Sands is a huge SCAR on we Canadians, that overflight picture was distressing. I think once a week every major newspaper should publish a picture in their newspaper of this atrocity.

Now I'm going to look up methane trapped in the ice flows/bergs, try to understand that one better.

[Woogie Man]

One of the bad effects of oil going up in price is that methods, such as tar sands and fracking, become economically viable. I used to wish that it would go up in price so more people would conserve, but all it's done is to open up these other types of extraction. Demand simply has to go down, regardless of price.

Here's a couple of links you may find interesting. The first shows global co2 output, country by country. Be sure to click on the graph to enlarge it.

The second one is about the Kyoto Accords, but really gives some good info on pollution in general and there's some specifically Canadian info you may like to see.

World carbon dioxide emissions data by country: China speeds ahead of the rest | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Kyoto Accord

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by gracielove

I guess these things all depend on what people want you to believe. While I believe in taking care of the planet I also believe in taking care of the humans on the planet. The United States has enough oil still un drilled to last 100 years at the current rate of consumption. We are not allowed to drill our own oil because of environmental issues so we are forced to buy oil from other countries. This system has enriched countries that perhaps were not ready to handle such wealth and they are now trying to destroy the west. I would much rather drill and use the oil we have in our own country while working on creating other methods of power. I think if we do not fall into the third world mentality that has been over taking our country we could come up with new methods of energy use.
We just launched the last space shuttle. Our country that used to lead the world in technology is now left hitching a ride with the Russians. Our educational system has fallen so much that we are ranked 18 out of 36 countries considered. What is going on here? Everything we buy these days is marked "made in China". Why? It seems our country, that used to be the world leader in just about everything, is crumbling from within. Are we going to just accept it or stand and say enough!

I AGREE with you 100%! What happened to OUR country???? The last launching of the space shuttle actually made me cry. Literally! We are supposed to be leaders.... and we are falling behind and self-destructing. The US is not taking care of it's people. I didn't have children. I'm glad for that. I fear for the future of other people's children. They will NEVER know the things I once knew and I never knew the things my parents knew. Each generation has more of 'the good stuff' stripped away from them and they don't even know it.

[celstu1]

I would be so interested in a thread to discuss this stuff even further. I fear for human kind, I fear for our planet and the beautiful species on the verge of extinction. I fear for our water supply, I fear for our oil supply. Mostly though.... I fear that people do not know how STRONG they are, until they are put to the test, but there are no tests. Take away the supply of oil, see how people rebound. Sometimes it just takes an extreme measure to make people realize what they can and cannot do without.
I've started watching myself and being for conscience of my and my familys energy usage. Over the last 3 years here are some small things we've done in my household to help.
1. Got a new job with a way smaller commute, from 72 miles round trip a day to 4 miles round trip.
2. Started riding a motorcycle to do smaller errands around town for go for a 'sunday' drive. That gets 70mpg, instead of my car that gets 26mpg.
3. Recycling, recycling, recycling. We recycle just about everything that comes out of our household now.
4. Being aware of packaging and avoiding over packaged items. I do not need a box of something that is wrapped, boxed, bagged and bagged smaller, all for 1 item. Unnecessary.
5. Growing a vegetable garden.
6. Skipping a day of showering a week, sometimes 2. I seriously do not smell or get filthy dirty overnight that I need to take a hot shower every single day. (gross to some, maybe, but efficient when 4 people do it and skip 2 showers a week, that is 8 showers of 10 mins (minimum) of running water, plus the shampoo, soaps that go into the water supply)
7. Replacing appliances one at a time with energy efficient ones, new microwave, disherwasher and oven/stovetop. Next will be washer, dryer and refrigerator.
8. Had the electric company and oil company out to check the efficiency of everything energy wise in our house. We turn off the oil burner during the day when noone is home so that the water heater won't kick on when there is no need for hot water.
9. Program the heat/AC (if we even use it) to keep the house bearable tempature wise, but not hot or not cold. I could put my AC at 70 and sleep so good, instead I put it on 78 to take the humidity out of the house and sleep with short and tank and no blankets on. Same with the heat. I could keep it at 75 to feel warm and comfortable in my house, instead I keep it at 68 and wear a sweatshirt and use a blanket.
10. Got a water cooler at the house instead of drinking individual bottles of water, I know this is not ideal yet, but we are saving up for a softener/filtration system for the house so until then at least we buy water in 5 gallon jugs instead of small bottles.
11. Stopped printing at home from the computer, this took some getting used to, but now we realized we don't really need to print at home.
12. I do not shop at Walmart... I know they are affordable, but I don't respect their business practices. They hurt our AMERICAN economy by they amount of imports they stock.

here are things we are budgeting for to go even further
1. We are replacing windows this fall from the old single panes to a newer double pane.
2. We are looking into Solar panels to help with the electricity for the pool and other seasonal items that require a lot of electricity.
3. Installing on demand hot water so we don't burn oil heating a tank of water when noone is even using the water (we hear the furnace kick on to heat that water on a 90 degree day when noone is using it and it makes us both sad)
4. Installing a water softening/filtration system so the water is drinkable
5. Buying the rest of the energy efficient appliances.



It always comes down to money.... everyone wants a piece of the pie.... there is just not enough pie for everyone. Some deserve it and some don't.