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I truly believe to know all is to forgive all. Even abusers deserve compassion and treatment. If I were Mel's therapist, and had a full medical workup and insight into his psyche, yes, I'd want to understand him. However, as someone who listens to a man repeatedly threaten to murder his wife - that's horrifying, and sadly as we know from experience, not necessarily an empty threat. Again, I'm happy this woman taped these conversations, whatever her motive, and whatever kind of person she is, because she sounds like she and her baby could be in danger. I don't care if she's everything Mel said she was. It's. Not. An. Excuse. |
I didnt hear where he threatened to kill her but if he was in a severe manic stage it wouldnt surprise me that he said it. If he is bipolar like I heard he doesnt realize what he is saying and doing. |
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And I think there was another tape where he threatened to burn the house down (?), but I didn't listen to that one. |
His father was extremely anti-semitic, that is documented. Mel has tried to downplay that for his career. Bipolar or not. Alcoholic or not. You can only blame so much on your mental state. I'm very sure she knew exactly what she was doing. She probably is a gold digger. Not absolving her at all. That is no way excuses the crap that comes out of his mouth. My short marriage between my 18yr marriage and my current 15yr marriage was to an abusive pyschotic, narcissistic abuser that I had committed. I no a little bit about what I'm talking about. I divorced him while I had him committed to the nuthouse. He was crazy on and off his meds. And he knew EXACTLY what he was saying and doing when he said it. In a lot of cases crazy as a fox is a pretty accurate statement. |
I make a lot of jokes about that marriage, it lasted about 18wks. I married the wrong guy for the right reasons. I new he had issues, but didn't know just how bad they were until after the 'I do'. I had already been in law enforcement long enough to recognize the signs real quick. When I say I know about how good they can be when they are not being bad, I speak from experience..LOL I still miss the good side of him. Anyway, even his therapist did not think he was dangerous when I explained to her what was going on. I had to push his buttons in front of witnesses on the grounds of her medical office building in order to get someone to realize what was going on. It was at that point I was able to get an emergency commitment. They kept him long enough for me do what I had to do. Never saw him again. Point being. He could charm her when he needed to. And retaliate as soon as he was away from her and had me alone. I heard it took 7 orderlies to get him restrained to a gurney once he realized it was involuntary and he couldn't walk out. yeah, he could turn it on/off, but he was indeed mentally ill. No excuse for his abusive behavior. He used his illness as an excuse to abuse... a lot of them do. I'll shut up now... sorry |
People with mental illness can be abusive without mean it. I have, and I not a bad person. That said, I take all my medication and all my therapy. It thin line, and their lot of variables. Everyone different. Until I know more, I fence sitting on this one. |
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Hon, I said, "a lot of them do"... not all of them. Problem is, 'some' of them will have actual episodes. They are terrible. But...then they get really angry, aren't getting their way, cross the line that civilized people don't cross and afterwards, blame it on an episode that they were NOT having. That is what I mean by turning it on/off. Kinda hard for a doctor to know what to do or believe, or any of us... |
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Take the Mel-Oksana case, for example -- late last week and since then, there has been a concerted effort to shift the blame back toward the victim (Oksana). In my opinion, Oksana is clearly a victim here (of emotional abuse and threats, at the very least, and quite possibly physical abuse). However, there has been a real effort (and rather sick effort) to shift "blame" back onto her. Whether Mel is mentally ill or even if he has some brain damage from chronic alcohol abuse - it wouldn't excuse any behavior, it may only help explain the extremity of some of it. It wouldn't, however, change the intent of threat - nor whatever abuse has already occurred, ya know? Malingering in mental illness is taken very seriously, especially in court - and it is extremely difficult to do here in the U.S. - so, even if someone tries to play this card, they will be evaluated at length before the claim would ever hold a shred of legal validity. At this point, Oksana's motives for creating the tapes, in my opinion, are really a moot point - the real point right *now* is whether or not she and her child are truly safe...whether Mel Gibson is capable of harming them, or not. |
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Yep, it has become an accepted societal ill, passing the blame. Doesn't matter what her intent or reasons. That doesn't give him the right to retaliate with violence and threats of violence. It is indicative of how low our civilization has sunk morally, when someone can behave in that manner and we make excuses and sensationalize him, instead of being, as a body, sickened by him. The Amish are onto something with that shunning thing....:D |
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For those of us who have worked with the mentally ill, believe me, they are shunned. I don't know if his diagnosis is correct, and I think it's ridiculous for anyone to accept this type of diagnosis so they can "excuse" their behavior. I'm just hoping that some of you may get a better idea of what mental illness is like, and being sickened by him does not really help those affected with the illness. Patty Duke wrote a book and she describes how bipolar illness affected her, and I'm sure at the time, no one would have any sympathy for her behavior, but the right medication and therapy can really turn their lives around, and their true persona can step forward. Again, mental illness is not an excuse, it's an explaination, and the people who suffer from it have no control over it, that's why medication is necessary. Here's a list of some famous people said to be affected by bipolar illness; it's probably not all inclusive. Famous People with Bipolar Disorder Famous People with Bipolar Disorder Much of this list was obtained from the Internet. Actors & Actresses Ned Beatty Maurice Bernard, soap opera Jeremy Brett Jim Carey Lisa Nicole Carson Rosemary Clooney, singer Lindsay Crosby Eric Douglas Robert Downey Jr. Patty Duke Carrie Fisher Connie Francis, singer and actress Shecky Greene, comedian Linda Hamilton Moss Hart, actor, director, playright Mariette Hartley Margot Kidder Vivien Leigh Kevin McDonald, comedian Kristy McNichols Burgess Meredith, actor, director Spike Milligan, actor, writer Spike Mulligan, comic actor and writer Nicola Pagett Ben Stiller, actor, director, writer David Strickland Lili Taylor Tracy Ullman Jean-Claude Van Damme Robin Williams Jonathon Winters, comedian Artists Alvin Alley, dancer, choreogapher Ludwig Von Beethoven Tim Burton, artist, director Francis Ford Coppola, director George Fredrick Handel, composer Bill Lichtenstein, producer Joshua Logan, broadway director, producer Vincent Van Gogh, painter Gustav Mahier, composer Francesco Scavullo, artist, photographer Robert Schumann, composer Don Simpson, movie producer Norman Wexler, screenwriter, playwright Entrepreneurs Robert Campeau Pierre Peladeau Heinz C. Prechter Ted Turner, media giant Financiers John Mulheren Murray Pezim Miscellaneous Buzz Aldrin, astronaut Clifford Beers, humanitarian Garnet Coleman, legislator (Texas) Larry Flynt, publisher and activist Kit Gingrich, Newt's mom Phil Graham, owner of Washington Post Peter Gregg, team owner and manager, race car driver Susan Panico (Susan Dime-Meenan), business executive Sol Wachtier, former New York State Chief Judge Musicians Ludwig van Beethoven, composer Alohe Jean Burke, musician, vocalist Rosemary Clooney, singer DMX Earl Simmons, rapper and actor Ray Davies Lenny Dee Gaetano Donizetti, opera singer Peter Gabriel Jimi Hendrix Kristen Hersh (Throwing Muses) Phyllis Hyman Jack Irons Daniel Johnston Otto Klemperer, musician, conductor Oscar Levant, pianist, composer, television Phil Ochs, musician, political activist, poet John Ogden, composer, musician Jaco Pastorius Charley Pride Mac Rebennack (Dr. John) Jeannie C. Riley Alys Robi, vocalist in Canada Axl Rose Nick Traina Del Shannon Phil Spector, musician and producer Sting, Gordon Sumner, musician, composer Tom Waits, musician, composer Brian Wilson, musician, composer, arranger Townes Van Zandt, musician, composer Poets John Berryman C.E. Chaffin, writer, poet Hart Crane Randall Jarrell Jane Kenyon Robert Lowell Sylvia Plath Robert Schumann Delmore Schwartz Political Robert Boorstin, special assistant to President Clinton L. Brent Bozell, political scientist, attorney, writer Bob Bullock, ex secretary of state, state comptroller and lieutenant governer Winston Churchill Kitty Dukasis, former First Lady of Massachusetts Thomas Eagleton, lawyer, former U.S. Senator Lynne Rivers, U.S. Congress Theodore Roosevelt, President of the United States Scholars John Strugnell, biblical scholar Scientists Karl Paul Link, chemist Dimitri Mihalas Sports Shelley Beattie, bodybuilding, sailing John Daly, golf Muffin Spencer-Devlin, pro golf Ilie Nastase, tennis Jimmy Piersail, baseball player, Boston Red Sox, sports announcer Barret Robbins, football Wyatt Sexton, football Alonzo Spellman, football Darryl Strawberry, baseball Dimitrius Underwood, football Luther Wright, basketball Bert Yancey, athlete TV & Radio Dick Cavett Jay Marvin, radio, writer Jane Pauley Writers Louis Althusser, philosopher, writer Honors de Balzac Art Buchwald, writer, humorist Neal Cassady Patricia Cornwell Margot Early Kaye Gibbons Johann Goethe Graham Greene Abbie Hoffman, writer, political activist Kay Redfield Jamison, writer, psychologist Peter Nolan Lawrence Frances Lear, writer, editor, women's rights activist Rika Lesser, writer, translator Kate Millet Robert Munsch Margo Orum Edgar Allen Poe Theodore Roethke Lori Schiller, writer, educator Frances Sherwood Scott Simmie, writer, journalist August Strindberg Mark Twain Joseph Vasquez, writer, movie director Mark Vonnegut, doctor, writer Sol Wachtler, writer, judge Mary Jane Ward Virginia Woolf |
There is a difference in admitting you have it and using it as an excuse. I don't see to many people on that list that have done what Mel did. If so it sure didn't make the news. We do know someone who is Bipolar and without medication they can have scary, dangerous episodes. |
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No, in all seriousness....here's what's bothering me about the mental illness slant of this whole situation. Having worked with those who are mentally ill (like Nancy has as well) - I've worked w/ chronically schizophrenic adults (and children), bipolar (aka manic-depressives, using old terms), major depression, personality disorders, dually-diagnosed adults etcetera... Of all the bipolars I've encountered, during their "manic" stage, they are often in a state of euphoric energy - where they work on projects for days on end, may spend loads of money, may keep going and going without sleep. I have rarely, if ever, witnessed a bipolar person in a state of rage and threats. If there is a concurrent stage of continued rage - there is something else going on in addition to bipolar disorder. So, what's bothering me is that the media seems yet again to be misrepresenting what being Bipolar Disorder is -- being bipolar has almost nothing to with rage, actually. An outburst, sure, but not really "rage" and threats. Rather, it ranges btwn being euphorically happy and being horribly depressed. (so...Mel may have more going on than just bipolar, is what I'm saying...) |
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What you have seen is generally the most common, but I'm just telling you what I learned, and mania can affect the same person both ways, and each episode of the illness may affect them differently. Most people love the euphoria and get so much done during these periods. Think of his movie Apocalypto, it was a huge undertaking and the manic period would be very useful. At first it's just a little extra energy, but after a while it can be like a tightly wound watch. These periods are often the reason why people don't want to take medication, as it will eliminate these euphoric periods as well. Their brain really is working much better than it normally would, and it's not unusual for highly successful and creative people to have this illness. Many people go for years with only the euphoric type of energy, and some people come down from this and are relatively normal, and don't even enter the depressed state. Although most bipolars experience both euphoria and extreme depression, some are considered unipolar with either depression or euphoria. The agitated part isn't considered part of the depressed stage for some reason, I guess because of the extreme energy, but it's seems like it's closer to the depressed stage then the euphoric stage. The high can be a euphoric high or it can be an agitated high, which leads to rage. Every emotion is highly exaggerated. The rage is considered the most dangerous time, and a person may have many episodes of bipolar psychosis without ever going into the agitated rage stage, but this stage usually does make them get court ordered treatment. Also, it's very possible that alchohol or other drugs influences how the illness would affect someone. |
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We were told this person is bipolar and what ticks me off is that when they could not afford their meds nobody helped them. Which is what lead to the episode I mentioned earlier. Now that that has happened a couple times the court has ordered that the person must be able to obtain their meds even though they are unemployed with no insurance. To bad all that had to happen for them to have access to the meds they NEED DAILY. |
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I've been fortunate to never work with the mentally ill in a therapeutic setting. I say fortunate, because that would be a very difficult job. I mainly have dealt with the receiving end :D, and in the course of my job, the crisis times. I've talked to them in suicide mode and in confused mode and just trying to keep them together in different situations while waiting to get an ambulance or police or some kind of help there, and sometimes it takes 30-45 minutes in a big city. From my experience and mine only. When mentally ill people are in a crisis state they are usually out to harm themselves. If it is a hostage situation and they want to hurt others, they are also going to take themselves along. They rarely, rarely ever want to hurt, target someone else and leave themselves whole and untouched in their mind's scenario. My ex when truly going through an episode would be suicidal or suicidal with thoughts of taking his kids (we never had any together) down with him. When lucid and playing the system it was deliberate. ""oh you told the doctor you were scared? here is something to be scared of""" that kind of thing, always directed out, never at himself. That seems to be the difference. |
Sometimes your knight in shining armor is just a retard in tin foil. |
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:sidesplt::sidesplt::sidesplt::sidesplt: Holy crap that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time!!!!! |
He's an idiot, which is a shame because I used to think he was funny, especially in the Lethal Weapons movies. Now I can't look at him the same way and won't go see another one of his movies. |
as all of you- I'm totally against abuse and not blaming the wife but they keep playing parts of those tapes on the news and I swear she sounds like she's reading from a script. There is no excuse for the things he said - none - and if he is mentally ill - maybe all this will wake him up AND help others who may suffer with the same problem and wonder 'Is this how I sound' ? I've never heard any human say such vile things ....but she seems just too calm and I had to wonder if she made those recordings on purpose. after all - this is a hollywood couple |
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I haven't been following this all that closely ~ just heard bits on the news and TV and here on YT. How is she claiming these recordings came to be, if not on purpose? I just always assumed she recorded him after being tired of his tirades and wanted proof :confused: |
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I figure they are a toxic couple. It has been going on a long time. She knew which hot buttons to push to get these reactions and so knew she could tape him easily. She probably did try to extort him. She probably is a gold digger. They may well not be admissible in court since he wasn't aware he was being recorded. In that respect it was probably a set up. Bottom line, no one forced those particular words and phrases to come out of his mouth. And if she mishandled the battery in an effort to get more money, that does not negate the battery. Whoopi can defend him all she wants, sometimes the ends really did justify the means...not the money...the 'outing'....JMHO |
I believe the recording laws are different in CA than here. |
He totally had me fooled. Truth comes out I guess |
Words spoken when drunk are only thoughts you were afraid to say sober. |
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Alcohol is not truth syrum, but it sure lets the jaws flap more freely.;) |
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