I don't think she was trying to bash rescues.

I do believe alot of these breeder dogs end up in shelters/ rescues.
BYB use their dogs to make money off them but when their to old to make litters they don't seem to care where they go or how their health is.. many have never had the life that our Yorkies have. they are used and then tossed out. same with the mills. it makes me ill to think about it all. when one does get saved they know what one has done for them you can see it in their eyes.

I know I once got jumped on for helping a breeders dogs try and find good homes. I didnt do it for the breeder but for the dogs. but sadly there was just to many that I couldn't find homes for all at once. so thats where a rescue came into the picture. they could do it , while I could only take one in at a time, they could handle them all at once, they screen do background checks often visiting the adopters. there's a lot of hard work in finding these babies forever good homes. they make sure they have vet care before leaving. shots spayed/neutered etc...
I have 2 rescues now I cant place them in a good home because the people who have wanted them . well its just was never a good match. these two have already had very hard lifes. theres noway I would ever just let just anyone have them. for I know if I did they would be homeless once again. so if I never find a good home for them they will stay right here with us. theres no other choice for I wont let them go to a shelter.


Shelters and rescues are totally two different things. they both take animals in but a rescue screens and makes sure its the best place to put this baby. they dont want them ending back up homeless and back in a shelter.
a shelter will take these dogs in but they adopted out to any one and normally do no screening so most of those dogs do end up right back at the shelters.

I agree. The last time I was at a kill shelter I was trying to find the man who worked there when I opened the wrong door and there was a pile of dead dogs wall to wall and chest high. I was shocked and thats some thing I will never get out of my head.

In my opinion when someone helps a breeder find homes from their used up dogs then they are brokers. A breeder should never have more dogs then they can find homes for or else they should have to keep them and not keep having more puppies to make $$$$. These are living creatures and are not product that goes on sale when it is used up...GREEDERS NEED TO STOP WITH THE VOLUME OF DOGS THEY ARE PRODUCING!

It is heartbreaking for sure but the problem will continue when these greeders get more room for the next patch of dogs. We cannot save them all and unless people start demanding changes in the law then no matter what anyone does this will go on and we will continue to euthanize millions of animals.

I will always support responsible breeders and if I ever add another dog to my home, it will be a puppy purchased from a breeder.

"Saving" dogs from the shelter only supports irresponsible breeders who allowed their puppies to end up there. I support responsible owner/breeder education and free spay/neuter programs. I support purebred dog breeders. I thank God for them.

This "savior" mentality hasn't helped reduce the numbers of unwanted dogs in this country. Spay/neuter programs work. Make it easy and cheap. Support it with your tax dollars.

Flame suit on.

wait a second...what are you talking about??? Saving dogs from shelters only supports breeders? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Saving a dog from the rescue supports the RESCUE so they can SAVE more dogs from the irresponsible breeders - no money is exchanging hands between the breeders and the rescues. It also saves dogs from going to the pound where they will more than likely be put to sleep!

That is probably one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard! :confused:

Sweet.

Where do shelter/rescue dogs come from???? They are born somewhere. A responsible breeder only breeds when there are homes available and then offers to take the puppy back for a lifetime.

Irresponsible breeders don't take their puppies back, do they? If they did, they wouldn't be in shelters.

Dogs are most often surrendered for behavior problems. Responsible breeders raise well-socialized puppies, place them appropriately and offer guidance and advice.

There are legitimate reasons to surrender a dog to rescue. But 95% of the time, the breeders are to blame. The irresponsible breeders.

Edited to add: I wasn't suggesting that any money changes hands between the breeder and rescue, but since you mentioned it, yes, rescue is big business. There's a ton of money changing hands. Mostly coming from sincere animal lovers in the form of donations to greedy, politically motivated, radical agenda'd groups. They use that money to pass more and more restrictive laws on responsible breeders and feed the machine that's pumping out "rescue" dogs.

I hope no one feels guilty for buying a puppy through a responsible breeder who is not breeding for money and truly is breeding to improve the breed. I also love it when people get rescue dogs, I do not think it is enabling bad breeders, they don't care if the dog is put to death, and by offering the dogs a home, we are prevent that. These are personal decisions, and I hope we could support each other with both of those choices. I find it hard to support those who knowingly support poor breeders, and reward them with money.

Let me also add that many YTCA members support rescues, so it's not just "politically motivated, radical agenda'd groups" who are supporting rescues.

Straightsilk - I'm hoping it was only my wording that confused you....:) but disagree with this statement : I DO support good breeders - without them we wouldn't have the beautiful dogs most all of us have in our lives....my point was mostly focusing on the huge shelter problem we have and it was just my personal feelings .....there are way too many breeding (yorkies and other breeds)

I DO think lots of dogs ARE ending up in shelters because of the many people breeding now. They want a sale and that's the end of that - My own Breeder was a prime example of that and back then - I knew no better...

I'm not in any way talking about ethical breeders who ensure their dogs go to good homes - but those out to make a fast buck - and there are lots of those:( but that by no means is saying someone is supporting bad breeding ! It's saving a dog sitting in JAIL by no fault of their own

Just look at the section on this site for Rescues and rehoming - there are yorkies listed every single day - they're from breeders ! Where else would they come from ?

You don't see yorkies roaming the streets like you may with other breeds so I don't think that's why so many are in shelters - I think it's because people are selling to anyone and don't care where their puppies end up - and yes....people who don't spay.neuter are also a problem - add the strays, run-aways and dumped dogs and we are never going to see our shelters empty.....:(

I was just curious where the thread would go and I applaud those who are involved in rescue and also - the good breeders. But they are few and far between these days. Everyone should support those that put their lives into breeding but it's been my observation - there are so so many selling dogs now (especially with the net) that are doing it for the $$$ only.

I think one of the issues is that rescues, like breeders, come in at all levels of quality. Some are great, and some are not.

I think that at the very least, a rescue should be able to do a basic temperament assessment on a dog, and be able to tell people if/what issues the dogs have, whether they will be good with kids, other dogs, etc. This shouldn't be something the adopter has to find out about on their own.

Placement is very difficult. The rescue I volunteer at has very few fixed rules AND very few returns, so that appears to be the best of both worlds. My guess is it works because:

- The rescue requires that all pets and prospective family members meet the dog first.

- The rescue assesses temperament before the dogs come in, and generally only takes dogs with mild or no problems. If there are problems, the staff will work for as long as it takes to get the dog ready to be a good pet. The rescue has a cheat sheet on every dog listing:

- If it's good with kids.
- How much exercise it needs.
- How much physical affection it enjoys.
- How much attention it needs.
- If it can live with other dogs, cats, or other pets.
- What kind of family atmosphere would be best - a lively, active family, or a calm, low-key one.
- How much formal training it's had.

- It's a popular, well-known place, so there are usually a lot of applications for every dog.


Which brings me to my next point, hopefully not heresy on YT :)... maybe your next dog doesn't have to be a yorkie. I know I want Thor to get a sibling when he's ready, and I will probably get a dachshund because he gets along well with them. I've been told that a lot of dachshunds end up in rescues because they are adorable puppies and yappy little adults. I'm prepared to do some rehab work.

However, in terms of getting what kind of dog you expect in terms of size, playfulness, obedience, socialization, maybe rather than focusing on the breed, you can find a rescue that will tell you these things up front. This is also the benefit of adopting an adult - you'll have a better idea of what you're getting.

Also wanted to say, this rescue usually gets their dogs from high-kill shelters around the area, and it really is a crap shoot if a dog ends up in a shelter or not. You would never believe these dogs were "shelter dogs" if you saw them out and about.

But you said that it just supports irresponsible breeders? That comment just makes NO sense at all. That's the kind of thing you say about a pet store - where puppy mills sell puppies to pet stores, and then when the puppies are sold they breed/send more. Adopting a dog from a rescue does not support an irresponsible breeder. I just don't get your thinking behind that. :confused:

I've read some of these posts. Good topic. Put me on a roller coaster of emotion. I adopt "only".
I really thought everyone heard of puppy mills, wrong. Took grandson for hair cut yesterday. Had my little adopted yorkie w/me. The girl asked about her, so I told her she was rescued from puppy mill. You guessed it! Her question was, "What's a puppy mill?" Let me tell you, I went into detail of the horrors these little babies go through. Then I told her to inform yourself & pass the word.
One most important thing we can do right now, from the comfort of our home..........
Call our congressmen & senators.......TODAY
Then Call.... AGAIN....&...AGAIN....&....AGAIN
Put their numbers on "speed dial"!
Keep conversation short & to the point or they'll tune you out. Been there, done this, & still doing it. Could use some help. More phone calls.....more gets done.

Something that Patti said "really" struck home w/me.
Said, "After awhile you see the anxiety turn to resignation." This is SOOOO true. My little girl was already past the resignation stage. Think the next emotional step for her was, "I can't go on...... I'm ready to die." She wouldn't even lift her head from the wire cage. When I took her outside, she just stood in 1 spot. She looked like an upside down U. Head down/rearend down. Have you ever seen an animal w/kennel stare? Heartbreaking....their looking into nothingness. How could anyone choose buying over rescue/adopting is beyond me. So they have health issues! How much do you pay a breeder? What I've read, it could be anywhere from $400 to $4000.
Can't begin to describe the feelings you get when seeing these little babies changing. They litterly come alive. My little Tabitha has. And she's still changing. Everyday to her is a new day. She's only one reason I KEEP making my phone calls (& e-mails).

No, I'm not "confused".

This subject is not complicated. Spay and neuter should be FREE. We should pay for it with our tax dollars. This and community education about the responsibilities of dog ownership can eliminate the problem. It works. It has been demonstrated in many communities.

Unfortunately, this approach does not garner contributions for radical animal groups. The more emotional approach appealing to the "savior" mentality does.

? I'm sure many animal rights groups are in favor of free spay/neuter.

straightsilk, can you post some facts to back up your claims? I'd be interested to see where free s/n has been implemented, and what the effects have been. Thanks.

I know that all animal rights groups would love it....IF it worked. Sadly people have so many excuses for breeding and never once have I had one tell me it was because he/she could not afford the spay.

I have gotten these answers:

I wanted another puppy just like my SusieQ

I wanted my children to see the miracle of birth.

Oh..there are others, but those two are enough for now.

I can tell you that YHR has never used money donated to care for pups to pass ANY laws against breeders or ANY laws at ALL.

I don't know ANY rescue that has done that and I do know a lot.

I think before you make such claims, you need to get a list of rescue groups and then go to www.guidestar.org and take a look at their 990s to see how much they use to "feed the machine that's pumping out rescue dogs".

Not thinking you are very well informed about what rescues *really* do. We never have a profit...EVER...we bust our backsides to get the veterinary bills paid for the pups that have been abandoned and/or neglected and/or abused. I can tell you that our members often lay out thousands of dollars and then hope to recoup it. We have a very dedicated group that does everything we can to help as many pups as we can.

You are right about reputable breeders not being the problem, but don't blame rescues for what the disreputable breeders are doing.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Commercial breeders HATE rescues, and send out lots of propaganda involving them. They would rather see dogs PTS, and have less dogs available for adoption. Unfortunately, lots of the propaganda put out by commercial breeders, is unknowingly accepted by small breeders and others, as fact.

They hate rescues because it is their mess that rescues are cleaning up. Or...shall I say...TRYING to clean up. Never ending mess. :(

EXACTLY where do you think all these rescue/shelter dogs are coming from mills/ BYB who no longer want their over used old dogs. some come from people who cant afford their vet bills or they have lost their jobs, it sucks but it happens.. things change and when it does these dogs need homes.
No its not right but I for one will NEVER turn down a homeless dog. if it comes to me I will get it vet care needed out of my own pocket and I will find the best home I can find for that dog. that dog cant help that its breeder/owner used it for $ I will not leave them to suffer. sure I cant help the ones in other states. but I can and will help the ones in my area. I will not leave them on the street to die.

I know exactly where these dogs come from and I stand by my comment...if you want to continue to help these greeders that is your choice but you cannot complain when it keeps these greeders in business and just makes room for more dogs. The cycle continues. Let the dogs go into shelters/rescues and stop the greeders from making any $$$ off of these dogs.

Breeders should pay the cost of shelters and rescues for their dogs. I am 100% sure if they had to pay the milllions of dollars in fines we would see many/if not all of these greeders shut down.

Why should it be free...owning a dog is a privilage not a right...

Make the breeders do their job and let them pay..they are the ones making $$$ off of selling dogs. Make them pay for all of it...maybe, just maybe people would stop the mass breeding that is going on.

I do not understand this mentality. Why should the breeder pay the shelters and rescues? When I take in a dog whether I pay for it or bring it in for free, it becomes MY responsibilty. No one forced me to take the dog, but for whatever reason I cannot keep it, it then becomes the responsibility of the breeder? Why? I understand breeders taking their dogs back, and I commend those that do, but making them pay for circumstances of the person that took their dog to begin with does not make any sense. Imposing a fine at the end of the problem is not fixing the problem. The problem needs to be fixed before it ever gets to that point.

Personally, I am on the fence about imposing regulations, fines, laws etc. I don't want my government in my life any more than they already are, Let's face it...you cannot fix stupid, and it is the stupid people that ruins it for everyone else, and I am pretty sure they are not here reading up on how to fix the problems. Imposing laws, regulations, fees, etc., will only make it harder on the honest ones already out there. Owning a pet is already becoming a status symbol for the wealthy. It saddens me to think that one day my grandkids may not be able to have the dog of their choice because of all the laws, taxes, fines, regulations imposed to do so at every level from breeder, shelter, rescue, etc., and that doesn't include the vet care necessary to keep a pet. EVERYONE has a part in the responsibility. It does not rest with one group.

I will never buy another dog, I am with you on that one. I have two purebreds and I have some guilt about them but I still love them A LOT. I have a MUTTSKY too =) FROM the pound, and my cats were ALL rescue's! =)

Everyone in my family calls me the "Catnip Dealer" because my cats have so many catnip toys.

Because a responsilbe, reputable breeder always keeps track of her pups. They do thorough screening, sell with a stringent contract and within the contract it states, said pup will not be rehomed and or put in a shelter. It states we will make the decision on where that pup is to be rehomed and will take it back.....

I believe every breeder should take on that responsibility, we brought them into the world.........a fee should be imposed if we aren't doing our job.

I believe a breeder should always take an animal back and find it another home. They profited from the sale of that dog. We haven't been able to fix the problem and lets see, if at a minimum 5 million pets are euthanized every year then the last 5 years 25 million animals have died because of overpopulation. How can this country look itself in the eyes and allow volume greeders and people just pumping dogs out to continue. How many of these greeders just say "hit the paypal button" and the dog is yours....they don't care who gets the dog as long as they made their $$$.

Reputable breeders take their dogs back.

The government is already involved...through the taxes we all have to pay to support the city/county shelters. Many of these breeders are breaking the law but nothing happens because everyone buys into "its a sad situation" or "it is my right to breed"...

When I was a kid we didn't have the mass volume greeders that we have now and this is what I want to see stopped. I think your children and grandchildren could still have pets if they wanted..we did without petstores or mills.

I have suggested in other threads that all animals must be micro-chipped and if the dog/cat ends up in rescue then the breeder pays a fine. Now maybe it is setup with the 1st 3 don't count but after that they pay..

If you have a better idea I am open..I am just sick that nothing changes and animals continue to die.

:bravo:

If you have contracts that states such, that is great, I commend you for that! That IS how it should be. Imposing that is another story. How many law suits could you go through before you simply could not enforce that contract any longer due to the cost involved? Again, if my dog that I purchase and agree to care for by making the purchase, ends up in a shelter and I am the one that defaults on that contract, you are saying that you pay the fee? Doesn't make any sense. What if I purchase one of your dogs, and I lose contact with you over the years? I move, or I get sick and my relatives know nothing about a contract and your dog changes hands and eventually ends up in a shelter? You pay a fine? That's rediculous. Also, a microchip only identifies the current owner at the time of microchipping. (or does it give the life history of the dog). What if the dog changes hands (against the contract) and never has the number changed at a registery? How do you trace that? I know that rescues deal primarly with pure bred dogs of their chosen breed. What about the mutts? The dumped dogs. Our shelter has very few pure bred dogs. Who pays for their being there? How do you identify thier "breeder?" Obviously the person bringing it in is not going to own up to ownership.

Ok, so some of you are also imposing mandatory microchipping so their dogs can be traced. Honestly? Do you know what will happen to dogs if you make mandatory microchipping a law, and you also impose stiff fines if the microchipped dog ends up in a shelter? People will take them to the country, shoot them, and cut out that microchip so it cannot be traced to avoid paying any fees. Sounds drastic? Yes it does, but then again, people dump their dogs in the country to starve and fend for themselves anyways.

Did you pay an adoption fee?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I will let Mary respond to her contracts...

All chips can be updated with the new name etc...mandatory to do. If I sell my dog to someone else and it ends up in shelter with only my name on...I pay the fine...It was my fault for not updating the information...just like cars.

You are incorrect about rescues. There are breed only rescues and there are rescues that handle the mutts (your words) and every animal would have a chip that has the breeder/owner record on file.

Look, now of us have answers but clearly you are only shooting down idea's without thinking how we can change what is going on in this word.

Trust me, if breeders/owners were dumping over 5 MILLLION animals in the countryside to get out of the fines...they would be discovered ....and then could be charged with animal cruelty.

If you have watched any of the video's on puppymills and volume breeders you would understand why one system isn't perfect but we have no system right now.

I just don't get you...what suggestions do you have?