Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2989143)

If a small breeder thought that was going to be a huge risk, they should quit breeding. Honestly, they should select homes carefully, and maybe do some health testing. We need to find a way to stop killing millions of dogs. I know people say it's wrong to "cull" puppies, but that's what we are really doing with dogs, breeding them haphazardly, and killing all the ones that aren't healthy or cute enough. This just seems so wrong to me.

Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 2989186)

I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to be done, but penalizing breeders if a dog ends up in a shelter might have the unintended effect of bolstering mass-producers who will happily pay fines or find a way to get exempted while discouraging small hobby breeders who don't have $$ to risk fines -- no matter how carefully they screen buyers, there is a risk of getting burned, and all it would take is one bad case.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2989192)

Actually many of the mass producers sell to the petshops and they would be the ones hit with the fines...and the amount could go up based on how many of their dogs end up in the shelters or they are not allowed to sell dogs...

Don't get to buried into the small breeder...unless they are willing to take the dogs back then they should not be breeding either.

Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 2989186)

I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to be done, but penalizing breeders if a dog ends up in a shelter might have the unintended effect of bolstering mass-producers who will happily pay fines or find a way to get exempted while discouraging small hobby breeders who don't have $$ to risk fines -- no matter how carefully they screen buyers, there is a risk of getting burned, and all it would take is one bad case.

Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 2989131)

Although I like the ideas proposed in several posts, keep in mind the cost of the administration to oversee programs and enforce laws and regulations. The cynic in me also worries that unscrupulous breeders would find their way around the system, while small hobby breeders would suffer or quit because it wouldn't be worth the risk.

Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 2989204)

I like the idea of fines being graduated for the number of dogs ending up in shelters.

Relative to the small breeders, I believe it was Nancy who pointed out that a good breeder requires by contract that the dog be returned to the breeder if the owner cannot take care of it or wanted it rehomed-- hmmm, maybe the contract could be the protection for the small breeder if the one bad egg buyer takes the dog to the shelter or dumps the dog.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2989207)

Now there is a National Database for this in place.

Yes, it costs for the administration, managing and enforcing said regulations that aren't working today.

A system was put into place in a region in Canada that is working. Rescues are being returned to their owners, no kill shelters, shelter is pretty much empty. They came down and gave a presentation to Los Angeles officials and they opted not to use it.

Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 2989204)

I like the idea of fines being graduated for the number of dogs ending up in shelters.

Relative to the small breeders, I believe it was Nancy who pointed out that a good breeder requires by contract that the dog be returned to the breeder if the owner cannot take care of it or wanted it rehomed-- hmmm, maybe the contract could be the protection for the small breeder if the one bad egg buyer takes the dog to the shelter or dumps the dog.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2989206)

I hear that excuse a lot, it won't hurt the miller, but it will hurt the small home breeder. In this case, I believe that the small home breeder is a large part of the problem. People need to learn that breeding comes with responsibilities, and some of those are financial. If the breeder cannot afford to pay the cost of putting the dog to sleep, he should not be breeding. Maybe if some of the byb understood how many of their own dogs ended up in shelters, they might rethink their "breeding program."

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2989207)

Now there is a National Database for this in place.

Yes, it costs for the administration, managing and enforcing said regulations that aren't working today.

A system was put into place in a region in Canada that is working. Rescues are being returned to their owners, no kill shelters, shelter is pretty much empty. They came down and gave a presentation to Los Angeles officials and they opted not to use it.

Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 2989233)

I oppose backyard breeders and people who breed their pets (unless they keep the offspring themselves).

Originally Posted by PiePiper (Post 2987141)

I know that if I was to get another dog it would be a Yorkie. It is really hard to get the the Yorkies or any other breed from the rescues. My sister wanted another Cairn for a playment for her Vegas. She went through Pet Finder and was able to locate a quite a few rescues. She applied filled out many forms gave her references (which each person was contacted) had phone interviews, house study (someone came to check out home and existing pets). When she selected a Cairn she wanted to rescue the dog was brought to her home to see how he would fit in. My sister did end up with her rescue and has had him for 3 years. He came with a lot of problems since he was a puppy mill breeder and had been crated gor 4 years but now is a great pet and a perfect companion for her dog. She saids it was a lot of work but worth while. Even though I have owned dogs my whole life and a Yorkies for the past 15 years I don't think I would be able to get a dog through a rescue because my yard is not fenced in. We have 5 acres on a country road. My yorkie never runs loose. I have a pen for her or she's on a leash. That wouldn't matter to the rescue. Your yard has to be fenced in. Why do they make it so difficult to rescue when there are alot of good people and good homes out there?

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2988893)

I agree, I think a lot of good potential rescuers rare turned down. I understand why they are strict but one set of rules does not fit everyone.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2989599)

Who told you that you MUST have a fenced in yard to adopt? We have adopted countless pups to people without fenced in yards!

Rescues, if they are placing pups the way I believe should be done, look at the whole picture.

What people really need to be aware of is that the needs of the pup should always come first. We spend time evaluating the pups before we adopt them out. Some yorkies are runners, some stick to you like glue...each one is different with his/her own needs. While one pup may not need a yard to run and play in and would be content with leash walking, another may want to run and play in a backyard.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2989220)

Wow, do you remember the region...I would love to learn more about this...

Originally Posted by Cha Cha (Post 2989614)

I was denied a rescue dog because I did not have a fenced in yard. I have also been denied because I already had a another dog (different time). I firmly believe that it is not always the best interest of the dog (animal) at heart at some shelters!

Originally Posted by Cha Cha (Post 2989614)

I was denied a rescue dog because I did not have a fenced in yard. I have also been denied because I already had a another dog (different time). I firmly believe that it is not always the best interest of the dog (animal) at heart at some shelters!

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2989623)

I'm still looking for stuff for Nancy. It was posted on one of the lists I belong to, sometime last year.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2989613)

I have seen this remark from you before and I honestly think you might be more effective focusing on the breeders who keep pumping these poor little babies out and selling them to just anyone with a buck.

Rescues are strict...and you say you understand; yet it does not seem to me that you do. You really are not correct when you say there is one set of rules. I have told you this before, but you somehow don't seem to understand it. I cannot even begin to tell you what an agonizing, time consuming job it is to find the right home for each pup.....we put a lot of time and love into these darling pups who have been through hell in many cases and NOT because they were poorly placed by a rescue....and we don't want them ever to be in another bad place.

While I can only speak for how I adopt a pup out, I know that many rescuers do exactly as I do...always looking at the needs of the pup first. We are the ones who are saving pups from places where they ended up because they were sold to the wrong people in the first place. I have rarely had a pup come to me that was poorly placed by a rescuer. It is more often one that was purchased from a breeder.

So, perhaps you need to refocus a bit on where the problem begins. It is not with rescue.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2989637)

BUT....maybe the pup you wanted was one that the rescue felt NEEDED a fenced in yard? Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2989644)

A good rescue is much like that of a good breeder. They are tuff and do run you through your paces. But, both have one thing in common the welfare of the pup.

I have certain criteria when placing pups, one is not placing a pup in a home where the kids are younger than 12. However, I just recently placed a pup in a home with a single mom and a son that was 8 years old. However, we had several meet and greets. I monitored both closely. The mother and child relationship was wonderful. He listened to everything she said. I think the first thing that made me feel everything would work out was he knew instinctively to leave his shoes at the front door. When he went into the kitchen he immediately layed down flat and let the pups climb all over him. Giggling the whole time while the pups nibbled on his ears and ran on his back.

Not every situation is the same, but we do set rules into place, based on the law of averages.

Originally Posted by Cha Cha (Post 2989614)

I was denied a rescue dog because I did not have a fenced in yard. I have also been denied because I already had a another dog (different time). I firmly believe that it is not always the best interest of the dog (animal) at heart at some shelters!

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2989640)

Well we are keeping you busy today...haha..

Originally Posted by Cha Cha (Post 2989646)

LOL, that is a nice thought. I would love to compare my resume with that of the shelter staff! Experience, knowledge, and education. :)

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2989649)

:thumbup::thumbup: Well worded...and exactly what I meant! There are rules, but everything must be weighed. It IS all about the welfare of the pups.

Originally Posted by Patti (Post 2989662)

I would either adopt from a shelter or find a rehome. Volunteering at a shelter for the past year has really opened my eyes. I now update the medical files on all the dogs and cats and the amount of dogs and cats returned or brought in because they no longer use the litter box/accidents in the house, moving, having kids etc is mind boggling. It breaks my heart. I sit tin the cat intake room to work and to see the look on their faces not knowing why they are now sitting in a cage (once they are cleared for health they go to the big cat room) or the dogs sitting in a cage. After awhile you see the anxiety turn to resignation. I wish this country would realize something needs to be done.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2989670)

So sad and I think every breeder in this country should have to spend time in the pounds and see the piles of dead animals...

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2989650)

I know this is a sore subject for you and I am glad you are doing your own thing but age is a factor (many rescues won't tell you this) and frankly I have never seen a shelter really screen their dogs. Shelters usually by law have to move the animals in x number of days and so they gamble the dog will work well with the new owners. They know 50% of them will be returned.

Now the Humane Society is a private organization and is not what I consider a shelter like a city pound but I have not seen them make home visits but have to determine adopting with very little information and the concern of being sued. These dogs are safer than a pound but they have to make room also...

A breed rescue I believe does the best job as long as it is a reputable rescue...they will do home visits, they will look at many things...and will place the best intest of the dog over the humans. These dogs are in a safe home and can be a little more fussy.

So was it a shelter, humane society or a reputable breed rescue...