I LOVE the chocolate! Sometimes I use in for my cheerios instead of the regular flavor hehehe :D

Here is PETA's stance on pets; from your comment, it sounds like you haven't read it before: About PETA >> FAQs >> Companion Animals

And, I'm actually shocked at your comment about "it's a COW" - it sounds exactly like the comment many people make about "it's JUST a dog" - it's the same mentality. WHO says, exactly and objectively, that any animal is put here for our use and abuse? Who says that a cow is better or worse than a dog or a human or an anything? I happen to think all creatures are valuable and deserve to be treated humanely - and that they are not on some subjective value-scale that we humans are at liberty to determine at our whim.

I think one of the greatest gifts of our human intelligence is the fact we can recognize that creatures are more vulnerable than ourselves, and therefore, deserve protection even from us, if necessary. Unfortunately, their vulnerability too often seems to be mistaken for total subjugation.

My daughter uses the vanilla for her cheerios but I bet the chocolate would be awfully tempting.:p Hmmm, I might need to start eating cereal.:D

In all fairness... we are mammals, and we are part of the food chain. To say that we should not consume other animals beneath us when other mammals do, saying we don't need to, is not correct. I stand divided on this subject. On one hand the amount of humans would go hungry if farms did not step in to accelerate the birthing process of certains animals that we do consume. On the other hand, cows were not put here to be farmed and herded, artificially inseminated to reproduce and make milk etc...

I am also a person who will never wear fur or eat veal, yet I drink milk and eat steak. I see the blantant cruelty behind veal and fur trade. I do not see the blatant cruelty behind dairy cows.

Another thing to ponder... IF (and obviously its a HUGE if) women were PAID to donate breast milk to the food industry... and they wanted to keep producing, do you think our population would increase? Do you think maybe quality of life for children may go down as parents put their babies on formula so they can make some extra money selling their breast milk? How about poverty? As women have 5, 6, 7+ kids just to try to collect money from the food industry, and still cannot afford to properly raise that many children.

For every action there is an equal or opposite reaction. I definately think that A LOT of people do not look at problems from all sides. They forget the consequences or fail to take into consideration WHAT MAY or COULD happen in the long run.

I truly think the breast milk was proposed tongue in cheek. It was to shock people, get their attention and get them talking which it has. I am not a vegan and I am not a saint so I am NOT judging anyone for their food choices but it is inaccurate that humans would starve without meat- or be under nourished in any way. A plant based diet is actually much healthier than how americans eat as a whole. Other mammals do eat other mammals but we are the only ones who farm animals for future eating and the way we are doing it is sickening. We are also the only mammals who have the capacity to make a choice about what we eat. I think we've all seen with puppy mills and bybs that once humans figure out they can make money off of animals, they can easily lose all humanity in how they go about it.

I really think it's just important for people to be able to make an informed decision- and that's what a lot of peta's campaigns are about. Most people really don't know what factory farming is. I didn't. I gave up meat after I learned about it and I wish I had learned about it much, much earlier than I did. If after you know you still choose to support that industry (as my husband has- and I still love him to death:p) then you've made your decision based on the facts and you would never hear a peep from me personally about it again. For the most part people don't know what they are contributing to and factory farms are taking full advantage of that.

I agree. This quote is copied directly from PETA's website:

Why Should Animals Have Rights?

Supporters of animal rights believe that animals have an inherent worth—a value completely separate from their usefulness to humans. We believe that every creature with a will to live has a right to live free from pain and suffering.

That is a very general statement--without going any further, I don't think there would be many reasonable people who would disagree with it. It is when you further disect what it means and who is interpreting it that causes the differences of opinion.

I.e. What is considered "pain and suffering?" What to you consider as "usefulness?" How do you determine an animal's "value?" What is defined as an "animal's will to live?"

So does the statement alone as it stands make sense? Yes. Do we all agree with that? Yes. Does that mean that that we feel it means the same as PETA? NO, not neccessarily.

I doubt anyone could dispute that factory farming constitutes "pain and suffering" so that's a great starting point.

I think there are very few members here who would have trouble defining pain and suffering if we were talking about dogs. The cows have the same capacity to experience suffering as our dogs do.

Well that would be an obvious...and if it were their statement regarding this instance, or factory farming alone, it would be easy to define. But it's not--it's their general mission statement...not relating only to dairy cows or pigs.

I agree. :thumbup:

My hubby eats meat (although he does like some of my meat-free foods, he is not a vegetarian and he never will be). He'll eat duck and rabbit and steak, etc. but when we talk about people who eat dog meat in certain countries, he gets soooo defensive and angry. He says it's terrible and disgusting, etc. (you get the picture).

So why is he ok w/ eating little bunnies, chickens and cows but not dogs? Why are we ok w/ drinking milk from a cows boobs (lol) but not from humans?

I don't have all the anwers. I don't judge people and I don't want to be judged myself. I live my life accoridng to what my conscience allows and that's it. Just throwing these thoughts out there and playing devils advocate. :p

PS - I hope to own a rabbit one day and hubby said if we ever do he will never eat rabbit again because he couldn't eat an animal that he loves (lol).

I also want to put in that I'm not a vegan (although I do eat vegan a lot and I go to a lot of vegan restaurants -- the food is awesome). I still eat american and mozzarella cheese and some other dairy products. ;)

That would be because their mission statement isn't about factory farming alone. This thread is about factory farming and as I said, it's a really good starting point. You don't have to wave a peta flag to be against factory farming- you can hate peta and still be against factory farming.

LOL...and I thought this thread was about "breasticles." :p Seriously, I realize it's their general statement, but since it was brought up...

Against factory farming regarding raising any animals for human consumption, or against inhumane practices in factory farming? That is the difference. They are not trying to promote better practices in factory farming, they are trying to eliminate it altogether. Taking something that probably does need to be addressed (factory conditions) and running with it to support their cause.

Now as far as inhumane treatment, yes, by all means I support that. (Despite the fact that it would mean prices on alot resulting products would at least double. $7 for a gallon of milk!)

LOL hahaha no this thread is about the "boom boom tree" LOLOL remember that??!!??!! hahaha :D :D

We are almost twins :)! My hubs also eats meat, and I'm fine with it - I'll cook it for him if he'd like. I've never been one to push, push, push my beliefs on those in my personal life. Each person does what they feel is right. I do what feels right according to conscience, like you. I do what I can, even if it's just a small thing. I haven't eaten meat for about 16 years - and maybe that's saved one animal (or whatever) - and some folks can laugh at that if they'd like; but I can feel GREAT about one animal not going to slaughter and no one can take that from me. :)

I have a twin!!! I'm so excited lol :p I'm the same way. I'll cook meat for my hubby and I feed my furkids meat and it doesn't bother me.

Now I say to you my twin sister ... ROCK ON!!! :D :D lol

Ha ha! Of course I remember it Princess Feathers...how could I forget!? :D

Rock it, sista! :D

I feed my boys raw meat - could there BE anything more IRONIC, lol??? :eek:

Ya know, I thought about that too...well, not neccessarily YOUR guys.

Is it OK to factory farm animals for dogs' food? Or is it just bad when it's humans that eat them? Should our dogs be vegan too? :confused:

Misty peta does actually campaign for humane factory farming regulations.

eta- and they aren't the only organization do so of course. But since this thread is about peta....

I've always drawn the line there. I know there are vegetarians/vegans who insist their dogs follow suit. Personally, I just don't agree with it - I can choose for myself. My dogs can't - and they're carnivores. Therefore, I think they deserve a diet nature intended (until they can tell me otherwise :rolleyes:).

What I particularly like about Natures Variety is that all of their meat is hormone free, antibiotic free, the chicken is organic (they also have non-org.), the beef is pasture fed (vs. corn fed) - so it makes me much more comfortable with where the meat comes from.

I thought their stance was that animals shouldn't be eaten PERIOD. :confused:

I'm sure that in a perfect world for peta, animals would not be eaten. Peta knows we live in the real word and campaigns for animal welfare guidelines.

Here is their stance from the recent Hormel expose:
call for the immediate termination and criminal prosecution of any employee - of this farm, Hormel, or any of your other suppliers - who is caught abusing or neglecting animals. You should also demand that this farm and all your suppliers meet the animal welfare guidelines set forth by PETA. These guidelines include phasing out the use of gestation crates by 2011, installing a video monitoring system that will be observed by a third party, and providing enrichment for pigs, just to name a few.

Here is what they have been campaining for KFC to do which incidentally, thanks to peta they are now doing this in Canada.
Ensure the phase-in of 100 percent of chicken purchases from suppliers that use controlled-atmosphere killing (CAK)—the least cruel form of poultry slaughter ever developed.
Improve the audits used to monitor Canadian KFCs' chicken suppliers in order to reduce the number of broken bones and other injuries suffered by birds.
Urge Canadian KFCs' chicken suppliers to adopt better practices, including improved lighting, more space for birds, lower ammonia levels, and a phase-out of growth-promoting drugs and breeding practices that painfully cripple chickens.
Form an animal welfare advisory panel to monitor the changes and recommend further advancements.


I could copy and paste all day and bore you to tears but the point is they are fighting for animals being treated as humanely as possible when being farmed for food.

I think I could do the same to prove the my points too. But I think that it's more fun to laugh about "breasticles." :D

I'm not sure what you mean. I was just giving you examples of how peta is trying to 'promote better farming practices', not trying to 'eleminate it all together'.

I mean it's not worth arguing about. You could post quotes all day (like you mentioned) to prove where PETA is supporting a noble cause, I could post quotes all day to dispute them and prove why I think they are a little off their rockers. And what would it accomplish in the end? Nothing.

This is my thinking too. Damn, we really are twins lol :p

I don't feed a brand of raw like Natures Variety or BARF. I feed my kids prey model raw but all of the meat I buy is organic, hormone free and pasture fed. The turkeys and chickens are cage free and allowed to roam and graze and are not fed hormones and anti-biotics to make them grow faster.

I agree. I know PETA doesn't want anyone to eat meat but in reality that's just never going to happen. It would be great if farmers and other people responsible for these animals would treat them with some respect as a living creature w/ feelings and not cause unnecessary pain (like ramming a rod up a pig's ass -- how the heck is that justifiable?) :mad:

If these animals were kept in better conditions and allowed a little room to breath out of a cage, it would be much better. I don't know if PETA would be 100% satisified but at least the animals short lives would be better and that's really what counts.

I had to go and look up the article after what you wrote about the rod and was absolutely HORRIFIED! WTH is wrong with people??? I didnt look at the video or anything, I wouldn't want to see that at all... the torture some of these animals live through is disturbing to say the least, and that human beings inflict it. Disgusting!

I am begining to believe in 'an eye for an eye' justice system. Lets see how this guy likes having a metal rod shoved up his butt! :( :thumbdown