OMG...I wish this thread, which has been very supportive...had to take a turn in this direction. Normally I do not get into a controversy of this kind, but I keep seeing it here on YT. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but unless asked, sometimes it's best kept to yourself. Especially when you know it's going to be very hurtful. To me it would be like telling someone they are fat or ugly...you know it's going to hurt their feelings. Some things are better kept to yourself.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

:goodpost: ...and your love for your daugther and much entailed shines through.

Dena, I'd do the same as you. I'd also be as hurt as you. I'd still keep going for Baby Emma just as you are. The lack of sleep alone is enough to make you more emotional. You go girl! I wish I lived closer, I'd help you and let you get some much needed rest.

No. You are not done with this.

Adversity is around every corner. I know you will continue to do what you need to do.

There are 545 posts on here. The majority of them are supportive and encouraging. Concentrate on them. Find the ones that touched you the most and print them out. Read them whenever you need encouragement. Just do not give in to feelings of frustration and do not let anything alter you from the determination you have felt all along.

In these types of situations you just have to have 'dogged' (:)) determination and get on with getting on.

Blessings,

Sammi

Well put!! No giving up Ms. Thing!! You are doing amazing

Dena I know how hard it is but try to ignore the negative posts. If you don't acknowledge them and nobody else does they will probably stop. Most everyone here thinks what you are doing for that baby girl is amazing and are behind you 100%. You are doing something selfless and wonderful! Don't let the negativity get in the way.:)

Dena, dont u listen to any negative things. Just keep doing wat u r doing!!! This is a very kind thing u r doing. Don't give up, cuz we are not.

Dena, I am so sorry that i missed so much in the last couple of hours...I hadn't a clue this was going on when I speak with you on the live feed...now i know why you were so fustrated.

you don't need us to tell you that those negative comments are only believed by that one person....you can clearly see, read and feeling all the positive support and energy coming from everyone else. We are all (well except one) here to support both you and Emma.

I can't speak for everyone else but I know that there isn't a moment in my day that goes by that i'm not thinking of the two of you....almost every conversation i have is about this amazing woman doing the most amazing and noble things for this stronger, sweet, precious little baby girl named Emma.

focus on our POSITIVE support and love (there's plenty of it going around you definitely don't have to look far)

:kiss2::luvu::love::hug::kiss3::love-hug1:love-hug3:ittykiss:

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[quote=sammiz;2177405]Aaaaah. This is so sad, these opinions on giving up.

Of course this baby is in pain. But later on in it's little life, it will not remember the pain. To give up is not an option, in my opinion.

I have been reading this thread from the very beginning. Just the fact that it happened is painful to me, but I keep reading and pray that it will all be over, that the baby will heal quickly. I know that even when she does, the problems will not be over. They will just be different problems.

My daughter was born with a cleft lip and palate. She has had very many surgeries in her lifetime and she is now forty years old. She recently had another surgery on her ear because this birth defect causes this kind of problems. She anticipates another surgery on her other ear.

I do have memories of many different times it was extremely difficult for her and quite painful.

I have three grandchildren. Each time one of them was due, I was always stressed because I worried that they might have the same problem. There was always a fifty/fifty chance of it, they said. However, each one was fine. It wasn't only 'them' that I worried for. It was her, as well. I knew what she would need to be able to endure if one of her children had this defect.

I am cheering for Emma. I am praying that she will make it through all of this and go on to have her life. I will not give up on her or on the effort that is being expended in her behalf. My God is a God of miracles. I pray for this for Emma.

One blessed thing is that Emma will never have to endure the callousness of humans that persecute the 'differentness' of her from other pups. She will never have to even know that she is 'different', because she will never have the comprehension of the differentness. Only that she is loved. I will say that for my daughter, this was by far the most difficult to cope with. Things that just 'popped out' of peoples mouths without proper regard of feelings.

So, Dena....you just keep doing your best. This time will pass and you will always know that you did do your best, whatever the outcome. Yours is only to continue the effort on Emma's behalf. This is not an 'old' dog who has lived a full life, but a brand new life that is deserving of life. If it is God's will, it will be so.

there is a very important line in this post;


to give up is not an option!!


it says all !!

The pictures of this baby are heartbreaking. I can't imagine what she and you are going through.

I can't catch up on 37 pages worth of info, but: have you consulted w/ a veterinary hospital? (I'm sure you have) What is she being given for pain control? Have you asked a vet to consult with a plastic surgeon who does facial reconstruction?

As you go through this process, if it were me - I'd always be asking myself - on a scale of 1-10, what is the quality of life this little baby seems to be experiencing? I do truly hope you can save her - but please remember that her quality of life is at your mercy, at this point. I know how badly you want to save her, and right now - I want that for you too. I hope it can be done. Also - did you see the STICKY in the Emergency forum for help w/ vet bills?

My heart goes out to her.

Boy it'd be so easy to just let my fingers go wild on the keyboard here, but ya know what, my fight is for Baby Emma and I stand beside Dena and support her and Baby Emma 110% I won't even waste my time nor energy on negativity here. God bless you Baby Emma and Dena, you keep hanging in there, together and with Gods hand guiding you, she can do this!

Listen....some people just can't get far enough to feel complete empathy. It's okay. Don't let it be a stumbling block. They will always be there. You have to go around them, over them or through them, but just get past them.

When my baby came to me with a broken heart, sobbing because of something ugly that someone said that hurt her deeply....why I would just tell her that we all have scars. I just did my best to help her through these times but it WAS hard. I couldn't give her one good reason why humans are so mean. I could only try to comfort her and go on.

Today, she is a healthy minded individual that has so much empathy for others. Her chosen profession is working with folks that are damaged and unable to properly care for themselves. I am very proud of the woman she has become.

So please know....there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Endurance can sometimes be so very difficult. Be encouraged, Dena. Only you are living it. The rest of us are all on the sidelines but you have so much support. Concentrate on that. Put your blinders on to the rest. Please.

I just want to Thank You Dena for having the courage to take on all the commitments of raising baby Emma. God put baby Emma in your path and having a choice, you made a couragous one. At a time when you could of ignored this little soul, you decided to take on the challenge that came with this little angel aside from all that you already have on your plate, like your own furkids. If I ever find myself in a similar situation I hope to have the courage you had and take the challenge head on and try to make a difference in the life of a person, or like in this case a cute little puppy. :) Just like you did! You're story is inspiring!

Keep strong and thank you for taking the time to post and let us know how Emma is doing.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Quality of life is what we always tell our clients to look for when they have a pet with a life threatening problem. We all know you love Emma and want to save her, but sometimes its not the right thing to do. I was very supportive and happy to read what you were doing for her in the beginning. But after this last report that her stitches came out again and pictures of her face, i asked myself how much more of this does this baby have to endure? She's probably not on pain meds because she is so tiny there is a huge risk of overdosing her. that's also why they didn't use anesthesia when they did the procedure in the first place. its just too much for her. You can't let her face stay like that right now and fix it later. Its all mangled up. Its not the vets fault they keep coming undone. There is only so much they can do. I've seen this surgery performed on babies like emma before and its sad to say but a lot don't make it.

Emma needs to go to a board certified surgeon and have her face fixed. It cannot be left like that. You chose to have it fixed so you have to follow through with it.

Emmas My Space page is beautiful . Everyone should check it out. Shes now in my friends list to I wont miss any baby steps to her progress...

It is beautiful and all of it just maked my heart clutch and my stomach flutter. The song you chose is so very appropriate.

God bless Little Emma! Helpless little baby relying on a human heart for her very life. God Bless you too, Dena.

My heart is aching.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I was starting to wonder the same things. Not about feeding her and saving her life. I think Dina is doing a remarkable job keeping her alive...especially after all she has been through.

But as picture after picture was posted of that little face after each failed attempt to fix it...I too began thinking when is too much pain...too much? When should she give up? Sorry, but I did.

But I am under the impression these 3 surgeries were preformed without any pain prevention. If they were...then in my opinion...they should have stopped after the 1st one failed. Much to inhumane to put any living thing through that much pain.

I am horrified to think about the pain little Emma suffered during the 2nd and 3rd attempt at putting her face back together with no pain management at all.

Dena asked if Emma was a human baby...would we have these same thoughts. Well, NO human baby would ever have to go through 3 surgeries (within days of each other) of the face and mouth without anesthesia.

Does this mean I would agree with anyone who would suggest Emma be euthanized now? Of course not. Emma has been through way to much to give up on her now. As long as she doesn't give up...then Dena has every right to help this baby have a chance at a life.

However, I pray that any future attempts to construct a functional nose and mouth be done as humanely as possible by Dr's who know what they are doing. There should be no more quicky pain filled surgeries while her little face is so raw and trying to heal.

I also pray for the strength Dina will need in the coming weeks.

Dina...if you are still reading these posts...you have many difficult decisions ahead that will determine this little girls fate. I pray you make the right ones for both you and Emma.

I agree !!! If folks are so concerned about feelings.... they should consider Dena's. She
has become so dedicated to baby Emma. It is extremely touching to read all the positive posts offering prayers, support and kind wishes. The naysayers aren't considering the pain that their negative comments are causing Dena, as well as her YT supporters. I'm going to end this post before I write some very caustic remarks about all the negativity !!

I've just finished reading this thread. It took me all day to get through it.

I cannot believe that anyone who has read throgh it, has not felt this womans pain. how can those of you who have posted negative responses add to her grief. I don't care what you feel. Keep it to yourself.

I get treatments at a cancer center. (I do not have cancer) but I see parents with babies that are struggling to fight it. I have even thought to myself that those poor little darlings will never make it. But never do I think that the parents should quit trying.

You have read other people post their success stories with cleft pallett puppies, so you know they can survive.

She realizes that she has caused the puppy more suffering by allowing the surgery at such a young age. But she did what she thought was best with the knowledge she had at the time.

We have all learned a lot from this thread. Unfortunately we have also learned that there are people who will knowingly add to someone elses grief and feel that they were justified.

Dena i commend you for your strength and courage and your dedication to Emma. i hope she makes it.

Send your story to Ellen.

:clapsmile :thumbup: :clapsmile :thumbup: :clapsmile :thumbup: :clapsmile

I cannot see how a cleft pallet will decrease the puppy's quality of life. She is just an infant. when she is old enough, it will not stop her from being able to run and play like any other dog.

Dena--
I have read through this thread...well, most of it.:rolleyes: I would just like to say that I commend you for the dedication you are giving this little one. I have read the "unwarranted" responses and really just think people were stating 'what they would do if they were in your shoes'...and I think that's truly all they meant by it. We all have our opinions on what is 'too much'--that doesn't make those opinions wrong, just makes them different. Maybe if it were me, I would handle it differently, but bottom line is-- It's not ME, so it is your decision to make and your fight for this little one to continue if you choose to do so. I believe at this point you will continue to get the support you are needing, no matter what comes of the situation and no matter what you decide now, or in the near future for little Emma. I admire your dedication to this little one and can only assume that you will do what is best for HER, whatever that may be. You are the one that has to judge what is in her best interest.

Good luck to you and baby Emma. :)

I agree. And very nicely put.:thumbup:

The problem is...if I'm correct...this is no longer just a cleft pallet. I could be wrong...but I think I read that Dena said she only had one functional nasal passage. The other is wide open.
Her face is now "mangled' with very little skin left to keep trying anymore repairs. And last I read...her pallet was opening up again. :(

This is why "some" are now questioning the pain involved and her quality of life.

IMO...Dena has the right to try everything under the sun to save this baby. And I pray to God she succeeds. I just hope they can find away to do this with as little pain to baby Emma as possible.

I wasn't speaking of the cleft palate - I'm hoping that it can be repaired. I'm speaking of her quality of life after the unsuccessful surgery, the pain, the not using full anesthetic, the face splitting back open - and whether it can be fixed from there. That's what I'm talking about. Not the palate itself. The limitations of the medicine and/or the surgeons.

I'm hoping for the best here, for Dena and for Emma. I support them both.

her quaslity of life as an infant has not changed. she is just an infant and eats poops and sleeps. She is still able to do those things. The pain will go away it will not last forever, and the results of the surgery will heal over she isn't any worse off than before. If she makes it, she will have surgery when she is older.

True she did have to go through a lot of discomfort, but so do a lot of human infants. Infants have the remarkable ability to block a lot of pain that we has adults would not tolerate.

She is eating and gaining wadeight, I would not give up on her eather. Dena took on this task and she is not going to just quit jnow because it has gotten too hard.

I commend her. It can't be easy. She is commited, and as long as the little one is fighting she will fight too.