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Old 12-05-2007, 04:02 PM   #1
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Default The Neverending UTI - Help?

Hi Guys. I was hoping that some of you may have dealt with this situation before & may have some suggestions or answers on how it was solved.

My 8 year old Collie started to leak extremely smelly urine back in July. We took her to the vet where a urinalysis was done. They said she had a UTI and that they found crystals & were concerned with kidney disease so we did blood work.
Blood work came back very good.

She was treated with Clavamox for 2 weeks. Another urnalysis was done a week after antibiotics ended. My collie was still leaking smelly urine.
Infection was still there.

She was then treated with Baytril for 2 weeks. A week after ending Baytril another urinalysis was done. Stilll leaking smelly urine.
Infection was still there.

Stones were suspected so x rays were done. X rays were clear, no stones.

Culture was done of her urine and found 2 kinds of bacteria in it, both which are treatable by Clavamox & Baytril. She was put back on Baytril for 3 weeks this time. Still leaking smelly urine at the end of Baytril.

This has now been going on for almost 5 months and we are into this UTI for $1100 so far with no end in sight.

We took her to a different vet today for a second opinion.
The gal who took her urine came back into the room and asked me how old it was because it smelled putrid. I told her it was this mornings urine that was in the fridge all day. The vet is sending out her urine again for another analysis.

The vet said all the right stuff was done & that usually these infections clear right up. He said rarely they will have stone that won't show on the xrays but will on an ultrasound. So he said if she still has an infection (Which I know she does) he may recommend more antibiotics and/or an ultrasound. (The cost of the ultrasoundis $400).

At this point we are very frustrated. It is not fair to my collie to have to stay in the kitchen, deal with having to be shaved up her hind end & deal with the skin rashes/soreness from the leaking urine. The vet said he doesn't want to put her on bladder meds because he doesn't want to make it worse by her having the urine stay in her more.

Any suggestions?
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Old 12-05-2007, 05:54 PM   #2
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I"m sorry your collie has had a UTI for so long. If i were in your shoes, i'd probably have an ultra sound done next by a specialist, NOT your regular vet. I would go to an internal med specialist to do it. They will be able to do much more then your regular vet and may be able to get to the bottom of your collie's UTI problems
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Old 12-05-2007, 06:47 PM   #3
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Here read this

LINK

Now if you need to get her to drink more water...feed her something salty like jerky. That should do it. I really hope this helps you!!!
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Old 12-05-2007, 06:50 PM   #4
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Yes, I agree...Speaking from experience because I have a dog that does have stones, I would most definitely recommend an ultrasound to check for stones and crystals...Also, it's VERY important to find out what KIND of crystals your dog has so that you can put your dog on the correct protocol.

Dogs who have UTI/crystal/stone problems need added moisture, so if you feed dry, it Very important to add equal parts water to each of his meals. So, if you feed half a cup at each meal, then add half a cup of water to each meal. Canned is preferred for dogs with these sorts of problems though because of the moisture content.
What kind of food is your collie eating currently? Is it dry or canned?

Feeding salty foods can cause other problems, so many vets do not like to recommend this route. At least, this is what I have experienced with Miko's internal med specialist and various vets that he has seen.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:51 AM   #5
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Yes, I agree...Speaking from experience because I have a dog that does have stones, I would most definitely recommend an ultrasound to check for stones and crystals...Also, it's VERY important to find out what KIND of crystals your dog has so that you can put your dog on the correct protocol.

Dogs who have UTI/crystal/stone problems need added moisture, so if you feed dry, it Very important to add equal parts water to each of his meals. So, if you feed half a cup at each meal, then add half a cup of water to each meal. Canned is preferred for dogs with these sorts of problems though because of the moisture content.
What kind of food is your collie eating currently? Is it dry or canned?

She eats dry food with a can added to it as well. We have always added water into her food and her regular intake of water through out the day is good as well.

May I ask if the stones in your dog had shown on xrays first? The vet said it rare for stones not to show on xrays & then show on the ultrasound, but it is possible. So it looks like the ultrasound probably will be the next step or we have to take or another course of antibiotics. Also, they said she might benefit from a prescription food that may shrink some types of stones or stop them from getting larger (if she has them).

The thing with her UTI is that it has never cleared at all. She even was leaking still at then end of her last course of Baytril. Also, her leaking is very heavy some days then she doesn't leak at all, then leaks a small amount.

She has a hard time getting up from lying down which has been attributed to her thickening in her hocks (knees) but we are really wondering if alot may have to do with her discomfort from the UTI.

I know alot of figuring out what is going on is by testing and ruling out what it is not.
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:01 AM   #6
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She eats dry food with a can added to it as well. We have always added water into her food and her regular intake of water through out the day is good as well.

May I ask if the stones in your dog had shown on xrays first? The vet said it rare for stones not to show on xrays & then show on the ultrasound, but it is possible. So it looks like the ultrasound probably will be the next step or we have to take or another course of antibiotics. Also, they said she might benefit from a prescription food that may shrink some types of stones or stop them from getting larger (if she has them).

The thing with her UTI is that it has never cleared at all. She even was leaking still at then end of her last course of Baytril. Also, her leaking is very heavy some days then she doesn't leak at all, then leaks a small amount.

She has a hard time getting up from lying down which has been attributed to her thickening in her hocks (knees) but we are really wondering if alot may have to do with her discomfort from the UTI.

I know alot of figuring out what is going on is by testing and ruling out what it is not.
i don't know if you've noticed or anything but when she urinates is it a good stream or is she straining? is it a trickle, on and off, does she stand there thinking she's peeing and nothing's coming out?

I feel that the prescription food sound only be given IF they know what kind of stone she has. honestly i'd get the U/S done.
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:55 AM   #7
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Feeding salty foods can cause other problems, so many vets do not like to recommend this route. At least, this is what I have experienced with Miko's internal med specialist and various vets that he has seen.
Well I wasn't talking about a bag full...A few quarter sized pieces would not hurt...I'm sure.
I haven't done this but was trying to think up a way to get it to drink more.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:18 AM   #8
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i don't know if you've noticed or anything but when she urinates is it a good stream or is she straining? is it a trickle, on and off, does she stand there thinking she's peeing and nothing's coming out?

I feel that the prescription food sound only be given IF they know what kind of stone she has. honestly i'd get the U/S done.
She urinates with no problem, it is a good stream, no straining. It just smells really terrible. Her leaking varies from either a small amount, that you see on the floor when she gets up - to her trickling as she is walking around -to a massive amount that will happen when she stands, it'll just pour out of her. Sometimes she has no leaking at all.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:15 AM   #9
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No, the types of stones that Miko produces do not show up on x-ray...They only show up in an ultrasound. They are ammonium urate stones...He forms this stones due to his liver problem.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:37 AM   #10
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I would do the U/S. I don't think there is any way around it for you.

We have a similar (but way milder) problem here. Ellie had a UTI and was treated with antibiotics. She kept urinating in the wrong places (on furniture in particular which she does not do). We took her back to the vet. They couldn't get a urine sample (small bladder), so the vet did an xray to rule out stones. No stones so more antibiotics. The problem cleared up for the most part but she did still have an accident on occasion. This seemed to intensify and one day she had to pee three time in less than 3.5 hours (not like her at all). I talked to the vet and they did another u/a and culture. Everything is fine. Ellie was spayed and the problem came back or stayed (one of the two). The vet just said to get pH strips and bring her in if it s 8 or above because we can't keep running there. Those are on order now and I really think we should do an ultrasound but they are so expensive. The vet is thinking more behavioral or possibly diabetes insipidus in this case. Anyway, it isn't constant and she never really leaks. She peed on the bed two days ago and on the couch two weeks ago but other than that she is perfectly normal. I dunno what to do.

Yorkieluv, I have a question that maybe you can answer. When the vet spayed her she said she looked at her bladder and everything seems fine. If the vet felt her bladder, could she have felt ammonium urate stones? I know I need to ask her this but I'm not due to talk to her for awhile...
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:46 PM   #11
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Some females become Incontinent when their spayed at an older age. If there was no UTI going on here I'd say that's your collie's problem. But fact they they keep finding bacteria is odd after so many rounds of antibiotics. Have they done a culture recently with an extended antibiotic panel? maybe the bacteria is just immune to the ABs your using. Clavamox and Baytril are pretty common ABs and usually the first ones that become void when it doesn't work the first time around. ALso the fact that she urinates with no problems is weird for a UTI. Usually they are urinating more often or straining to go. Something is definitely odd and i'd want another opinion.

as for the incontinence there are drugs to help with that problem and stop the leaking. PPA or PNR work nicely if that is the only problem.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:14 PM   #12
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Thanks for all the great info.

After the clavamox & first round of baytril they did the culture & found that there were two types of bacteria in her urine both of which were treatable by clavamox & baytril. So the lab recommended the 3rd round of antibiotics, Baytril again but for 3 weeks this time instead of two.

She is over 8 years old now & was spayed when she was 6 months old. The 1st vet did say that after the UTI cleared if she was still leaking they could prescribe her something for bladder control but would not do so until it cleared.

The vet we took her to yesterday is a new vet our second opinion. He ran a urinalysis on her & called us today. He said that her white blood cell count has actually gone back to normal (he has all the records from the other vet to compare it to). Which is a good thing & the 1st positive move we've had. However, she still does have bacteria in her urine and so still has a UTI.

He recommends to put her on Doxycycline 100 mg 2 tablets twice a day for 2 weeks. A that time he'll run another urinalysis & see where we stand. He thinks she may need a 6 week treatment to clear it as it is quite stubborn.

He also prescribed her a low dose of PPA 2 times a day to help with her incontinence which we will gradually decrease. He wanted her on the least amount possible to try & avoid any complications from it but wanted to try & give her some relief from the constant leaking & problems caused by it.

He said if this does not work then the next step would be the ultrasound (which is expensive $400). After that would be to see a specialist and possibly having an endoscopic exam done.

I do have to add that the Doxycycline was actually the least expensive drug yet (only $21) compared to the Baytril ($160) and Clavamox ($110) for 2 week supplies. The vet said that is because it is a generic drug, Baytril & Clavamox do not have a generic equivalent.

So wish us luck, hopefully things will get better soon...
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:47 PM   #13
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Thanks for all the great info.

After the clavamox & first round of baytril they did the culture & found that there were two types of bacteria in her urine both of which were treatable by clavamox & baytril. So the lab recommended the 3rd round of antibiotics, Baytril again but for 3 weeks this time instead of two.

She is over 8 years old now & was spayed when she was 6 months old. The 1st vet did say that after the UTI cleared if she was still leaking they could prescribe her something for bladder control but would not do so until it cleared.

The vet we took her to yesterday is a new vet our second opinion. He ran a urinalysis on her & called us today. He said that her white blood cell count has actually gone back to normal (he has all the records from the other vet to compare it to). Which is a good thing & the 1st positive move we've had. However, she still does have bacteria in her urine and so still has a UTI.

He recommends to put her on Doxycycline 100 mg 2 tablets twice a day for 2 weeks. A that time he'll run another urinalysis & see where we stand. He thinks she may need a 6 week treatment to clear it as it is quite stubborn.

He also prescribed her a low dose of PPA 2 times a day to help with her incontinence which we will gradually decrease. He wanted her on the least amount possible to try & avoid any complications from it but wanted to try & give her some relief from the constant leaking & problems caused by it.

He said if this does not work then the next step would be the ultrasound (which is expensive $400). After that would be to see a specialist and possibly having an endoscopic exam done.

I do have to add that the Doxycycline was actually the least expensive drug yet (only $21) compared to the Baytril ($160) and Clavamox ($110) for 2 week supplies. The vet said that is because it is a generic drug, Baytril & Clavamox do not have a generic equivalent.

So wish us luck, hopefully things will get better soon...
I hope the Doxy works. Sounds likes your vets are doing everything possibly. If the doxy doesn't work the u/s will have to be done. I know its expensive but just think, if it works and they find something treatable with the u/s, you've probably saved yourself another couplemonths of expensive ABs.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:25 PM   #14
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I hope the Doxy works. Sounds likes your vets are doing everything possibly. If the doxy doesn't work the u/s will have to be done. I know its expensive but just think, if it works and they find something treatable with the u/s, you've probably saved yourself another couplemonths of expensive ABs.
I am hoping this clears it. The cost of the US isn't so bad to take if it shows the cause of her UTI. The frustration is running al these expensive tests and having them show nothing and then running the AB's and having her be the same as when we first started. Guess only time will tell now.

By the way are you a vet?
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:28 PM   #15
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I am hoping this clears it. The cost of the US isn't so bad to take if it shows the cause of her UTI. The frustration is running al these expensive tests and having them show nothing and then running the AB's and having her be the same as when we first started. Guess only time will tell now.

By the way are you a vet?
No, i'm just a vet tech, but i work at a referral center will all kinda of specialist. I LOVE the internal med docs we have. They are simply amazing and know so much. I personally work for the surgeon but we cut IM cases a few times a week, sometimes multiple ones in a day so we work pretty closely with them. They also do our U/S's for our patients if they need them. they are 1000 times better at it then a regular vet, so much so that i don't trust the regular vets to do u/s anymore.
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