Can someone tell me (maybe a breeder) they (non-show breeders) breed pet quality dogs to make more pet quality dogs? I know you don't get any money at the end because of it but why breed then? It's not really helping the breed and even tho you are able to give a wonderful deserving family that dog doesn't mean you are helping out the breed...... I'm just ttrying to figure this out.. I'm not saying any one breeder does this or that... And this isn't to start anything but a question I had for sometime

WOW touchy subject...
I also think some of the rules on adopting an animal WOW.
It took me six months to adopt a parrot. But it was worth it also.
But, I bought a breeders bitch from a pet flea market.. And I will do it again if the situation faces me.. I did not buy her for that lady can have money or to help puppy mills or to look good
I bought her cause the dog needed HELP..
For yorkies prices..way to much..but people pay it..some say they breed not for profit..Come on..
Then give the pup away for cost.
Your time should be free.. if you are chargeing or your time and love you spend with each pup..that is priceless..or profit..
It is ok if you make a profit..I just get so upset..when people tell me they make no money by breeding. I sold my 4 pups for $600.00 and came out $250profit.. Not bad I had alot of puppy kisses that was priceless

its seems confusing to me
 

This is my opinion- when I was looking to get a yorkie, i found that on breeders websites, the prices were out of my range. we had gotten a gift of $550 for christmas. I knew enough not to go to pet stores. so i looked in the local paper and there were lots of advertisements for yorkies. was a women who has two female and one male yorkie and one female maltese. So she has only has a few litters per year (maybe three) of either morkies or yorkies. It was apparent that these four pups of hers were the families pets, and the puppies were in a play pen in the living room. so we paid $500 for our little Tobey and he has turned out to be a great pet! he is aca registered and i was given copies of the mother and father's lines. she gave us his food and a blanket, and told us how to watch for symptoms of hypoglycemia. then we left. Is she a breeder? or is she just a nice older lady who breeds her pets to make like $3,000 per year and supply good pets to people who can afford to buy from the full time breading business out there. is that wrong? i did not know a whole lot, but i knew i wanted a yorkie and couldn't afford $1,500. i would like to get another some in a year or two, but still don't want to pay much more than i did for tobey. What do you think? honestly?:confused:

also, it is the price of yorkies that is soo incredibly high and i think that is because they are in demand. if you go by lots of other breeds- golden's, schnauzers, poodles, pugs, bosten, min pin's- none of those generally cost 1,500. i amsure prices vary but they would be more in the $250-$750 range right?

I haven't read the whole thread, and I anticipate that there is some strong feelings on this.

I can only share why I payed $1250 for my baby.

I wanted to know for sure what I was getting...ie: yorkie personality, size, and temperment. I found out later that could have been different than what I got, but I really did get a "normal" yorkie in that way........I wanted to know she was well cared for growing up, with love, in a good home. And she was.

So the $1250 was nothing really...she was healthy. All the things that needed to be done, were done....I just knew that all things were taken care of, and that she came well adjusted.

That's my reasoning.and I would do it again in a heartbeat (and hope to if I can ever have a little boy - I will call James Dean. My little girl is Norma Jean)........


Love yorkies..!!!

good point :)

A Show breeders 2Cents
 

I have also not read every post on this thread. I have been showing and raising yorkies since 1992. I have also struggled with the price issue. While I love being able to receive a price in excess of $1,000 on all the companion pets I place, there have been many times a retired couple or someone on a fixed income has come to me and the knowledge that this little creature would go to an awesome forever home has caused the price to magically drop to their ceiling figure. I can also attest to the cost of raising a litter. I've just whelped out a litter of six (see my avatar photo). C-section at 2:30 a.m. at the emergency clinic ($1,000), docking tails and dewclaws, shots, worming, driving home every day at noon to feed (have you SEEN the price of Goats Milk?), laundry (LOTS), makeup to cover the bags under my eyes :) , etc, etc. I like to think I'm a responsible breeder...to that end I offer a 2 year health guarantee from date-of-birth, send my new parents home with 3-4 weeks of food, blankets, pee pad, ALL my phone numbers and email addys. I also babysit for my local pets and offer free shots (which we are allowed to do here in Oregon)

The monies I receive from my puppies allows me to get up at 4 a.m., bathe my show dogs, fill up my gas tank and drive 4 hours to the dog show site (hoping all the way that nobody throws up), pay $7 to park my car, take my 2 dogs to the show ring (which costs me $25/day/dog to enter). After the show I need to get my scissors sharpened, pick up that special organic dog food that costs $43 per 20 lb bag and schlep it all back to the van. Before I start the drive back, I need to set up the pen so everyone can go potty, drink a good amount of water and enough food to tide them over til we get home...but not so much they'll throw up on the way back...otherwise I have to bathe everyone again when I get home. BTW, most dogs shows are Saturday AND Sunday. Sunday 4 a.m....start over.

Long about Sunday afternoon 3 hours into the drive home....I'm thinking it's OK to charge over $1,000 for a puppy.... :rolleyes:

.....I'm just sayin'

A Show breeders 2Cents
 

Duplicate entry...I hit enter twice!

Must be time to go to bed....

Well said Sharon and welcome to YT......I think it will be great to have you here.

About C-section
 

My female just had pups and a c section here is 1100.00 and thats if everything goes ok. WE put alot into our babies and I know speaking for myself I just want to know who ever get my babies love them and takes great care of them.Also it takes alot to get a litter ready for new homes.
Thanks Connie

Oh, I know that c-setions cost a TON.. but I wanted to know (I think I said it in one of my previous post. i have to go back and see) why would most breeders even breed their dogs knowing that they are pet quality and aren't a really good example of the breed. If they weren't bred in the first place then that breeder wouldn't have to do a c-section when the need arise....
And I am not talking about you... It's just a open question that I think of about many breeders.. Isn't the whole point of breeding to make the breed better and not to just produce dogs to put in good homes... JMO:D

I think a lot of those breeders that don't show (not all) do it so that they can make a profit. Like you, I'm not sure why that small amount of breeders (that don't breed for show dogs and aren't breeding for profit) do breed. To me it seems like you would either be breeding to improve the breed or breeding to make a profit, so if you're not doing either one I'm not sure what the purpose of doing it is. FYI - NOT trying to turn this thread into why you should or shouldn't breed. Just curious why someone would breed if they aren't breeding for their next show dog and also not breeding to make a profit.

out of interest, how many litters is considered safe if you have a female that is having a c-section each time? 3 seems alot but i'm judging that on human c-sections. but then again why would it be any different for dogs?
I know i couldn't intentionally put a dog that i loved through the risk of 3 c-sections.

:thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you for breaking this down!!!! I agree with dray .... welcome and it will be great to have you here!! :p We bought our Toto from Ava Tyree [show breeder] and all we wanted was a healthy little pet!! We got soooo very much more! :) That was four yrs. ago this month and we have never had so much fun! We never tell what we paid [that's between us & Ava] but I can tell you this ... it wasn't nearly enough!! :p Ava is always there for us and happy to offer advice even with her hectic schedule. I don't think you mentioned vet visits. We also use the same vet as Ava except that she is over 100 miles away and she gladly drives it with a carload of yipping Yorkies! She is totally dedicated to her Yorkies and I am so thankful for her!! ;) So, thank you, Sharon for being a good breeder! ;)

Whoa, wasn't expecting this when I asked the question
 

Well, I am still confused about the whole thing. I still don't get the pricing, and after reading through alot (not all) of the responses, all I am getting is that the breeders are pissed because they are breaking even or in some cases losing money, which make me wonder why they do it. If it is for the love then why the push for profit? If it is for the profit then they don't care for the dog, which should incense every owner on here. I guess this topic will forever be a conundrum.
Owners and prospective owners are either happy spending the money for a pet that may or may not be healthy (I know you judge by the parents, but who really knows when you take them home at 12 weeks?) or settle for something cheaper because they can't afford to shell out thousands for a beautiful, documented, certified, sired by purebred show winner puppies. I don't know if that drives them to pet stores. To be honest I am betting alot of people on this board, myself included, got their first dog from a pet store because they didn't know better. I got Lick wicked cheap apparently, and I must be Irish because he is super healthy, happy, well adjusted, yadda yadda, so on and so forth.
I am pretty sure I can take care of any living thing. It isn't rocket science. I don't subscribe to the pampered pet thing and I don't knock anyone that does, just like I don't knock celebrities for spending millions on their baubles. It is personal choice, just like paying out the wazoo for a Yorkie. It just kinda makes me a little upset when good people can't afford to get a dog because someone wants super high prices because Yorkies are so popular. If, and it will never happen because my dogs are fixed, my two had puppies I would be more concerned with good homes than making money.
I don't know who moderates this, but this thread needs to be locked as it is going nowhere. I am no closer to an answer and I am not an economics major so I can't extoll the virtues of a free market society and dog prices. The only thing this topic is going to bring about it anger and resentment which was not my goal at all.

:confused: I read each and every post on this thread and I am confused at how you can say that your question was not answered. Actually,it was addressed several times with pretty much the same answer. Here's what I gathered from the responses....it takes money,time, lots of love and work to raise a litter of puppies! It isn't cheap to breed and it is trying on the emotions as well....I cried when each of my 4 puppies left us.

I am sorry that you didn't feel like you got your answer, but I really think that everyone did try to explain their reasons.

Tammy

Chris e, seems to me it was explained very well.

Here is the list of help for people with sick dogs that cannot afford vet care.
I promised last night I would post this.



United Animal Nations
http://www.uan.org/index.cfm?navid=28
Grants and other Life Line programs for care
The Magic Bullet Fund
http://www.themagicbulletfund.org/
Help with Cancer care for canines
Pets Are Wonderful Support
http://www.pawssf.org/
Help for owners with low income/disabled/HIV/Aids
Pets are Loving Support
http://www.sonic.net/~pals/
Help for owners with AIDS
Help a Pet
http://www.help-a-pet.org/
nonprofit organization with a single purpose: to provide financial assistance nationwide for the medical care of pets whose owners are unable to afford the expense.
Westie Med, Inc
http://www.westiemed.com/
distribute financial aid to injured or ill rescue Westies.
LabMed
http://www.labmed.org/
distribute financial aid to injured or ill rescues around the country
Lab Lifeline
http://www.labsr4u.com/
providing financial aid to rescued and privately owned labs in need of a helping hand
Doberman 911
http://www.doberman911.org/
helping senior and special needs Dobermans in Rescue, Shelters or owned
Ashley's Angel Fund
http://www.ashleyfund.org/
providing monetary assistance for veterinary care for dogs with a life-threatening condition NORTH CAROLINA AREA
New York Save
http://www.nysave.org/index_2.html
NEW YORK ONLY dedicated to the aid and assistance of low-income pet owners residing in one of the five boroughs of New York City
Harrison Memorial Animal Hospital
http://www.hmah.org/
DENVER CO Non Profit/low cost
Animal Cancer Therapy Subsidization Society
http://www.actssalberta.org/
CANADA ALBERTA Financial Aide for canine cancer care
Cody's Club
http://www.dogdoggiedog.com/pwcAcodysclub.htm
Help off set radiation costs
For Pet's Sake
http://www.for-pets-sake.org/about.php
ARKANSAS NW aide for the elderly with pet care costs
PetPALS of Southern New Jersey
http://www.geocities.com/snjpetpals/
NEW JERSEY aide for elderly & ill
Angels4Animals
http://www.angels4animals.org/
financial assistance nation wide for pet care

Helping Hands in Denver, CO. http://www.chhf.org/

Well said and welcome. Joan

catching up since last night
my opinion is this...if a person is advertising 800 and another is advertising the 1500-2000 who do you think gets the first phone call, who got the first sale. now if you are looking for show quality is understandable that you will be paying the big bucks, but if you are selling pet quality (limited registration) my feeling is the prices should be drasitically different.and just because you consider some one a byb doesnt neccessarily mean you are right, thats your opinion. they might be great hobby breeders, who enjoy having puppies a time or two a year. and then of course knows they cant keep them all and knows they will sell and lets them go to good homes. most rept breeders also badmouth other breeders and call them byb because they have more than one breed. Most people like more than one breed and if you have the capablity to handle them, then you shouldnt be labled a poor breeder because you enjoy more than one breed.

the average person can not spare 2000.00 on a puppy it would take a lot of savings, and then if you are married try justifiying to your spouse why to spend 2000.00 on a DOG. but you can probably squeak by with a 650-800 yorkie to them. and you might get a wonderful , perfect yorkie and you might not. plenty of people have come here and said how much they spent and how many problems they have had since. In the same token if emergencies arrise and person can usually handle it if neccessary so the "pocket book" shouldnt make the decision on wether or not you will speak to this person or that person about selling your puppy to them, if someone spoke to me in that manner and belittle me for the money my family works hard for then you dont deserve my money for your puppy and that makes you a bad breeder in my eyes and everyone i would meet i would explain the problems i had with you. So it goes both ways. i have had someone treat me like i was beneathe them because of the money and i will never go back to them and i always tell people to steer clear of that breeder. she also told me my other dog was disgusting because it was a mix, so there is another area where you might miss a sell. degrading others lifes and lifestyles doesnt win you anything.

I think the question was answered several times over and over with each response having different reasons as to why each breeder may charge differently. I don't think the price I charge is to make a profit as one poster said because what I get for my puppies goes to what I paid out and still what I get isn't enough to carry the expenses I pay out for breeding, whelping, vet costs, food, bedding, toys, laundry, show fees, hotels, gas, and the list goes on. Yes, I choose to show dogs because it's my passion and the love of the breed is also my passion so to say that my prices are to eventually make a profit is absurd! No I'm not angry at all just trying to educate why I love what I'm doing. NO I'm not rich I'm just a middle income family with a HUGE debt doing my passion. Again, it's MY choice to do what I do. I haven't mentioned my prices because it's not up for discussion because this is a public forum and I choose not to disclose my prices online. And if you think your question hasn't been answered then you aren't opening up your eyes or opening up your mind. Sorry it's just how I see it :)
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Well said, I am not a breeder but have learned quite abit from this thread, Im always looking to futher my education and help me to help others;)

You know littlewhip they call most show breeders (correct me if I'm wrong) Hobby Breeders. A hobby is something you love to spend money on and do not look to gain profit. Of course some of them do but for the most part it is for the love of the breed. Some people might by a boat as a hobby and you know the ol saying " A Boat Is a Hole in the Water that you throw Money into"and thats what this is too. You just keep wanting to do better and better in the world of dogs and thats a good thing for all of us with lesser means and ability to do it.

Show fees gas ect? people who buy a dog shouldnt have to pay for a hobby.

As said before and we can go on and on....each breeder's fees are different. And more often than not you'll find that dogs advertised on the internet, etc., are priced higher that a show breeder. And again, if someone doesn't like the price of any breeders pups....then don't buy from them.

My dog came out of a rescue and I still paid $500 to help support the expenses of her and the other dogs involved. I know that there were about $10,000 in costs even AFTER the $100-$500 adoption fees that the rescuers incurred saving her and about 30 other dogs from the very bad situation they came out of and the medical problems that came with it. I make a very, very modest amount of money (I love my job, but it doesn't pay well!), and that $500 was a lot for me, but my dog was worth every single penny of it and more.

To be really honest, $1500 for a dog doesn't seem outlandish to me. It is a good chunk of money, but I really think it SHOULD be a good chunk of money because it prevents most people from making an impulse purchase. I cringe whenever I see people letting animals go for free or for very small amounts of money, because that is just asking for people to view them as something disposable. If somebody spends less on a yorkie than she spends on a pair of shoes, what's to say that in three years when the breed isn't the Latest Thing being carted around by Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, she won't just toss the dog like she tosses her out-of-style shoes? At the hospital where I work, we even charge a considerable adoption fee for the rescue kittens people dump in boxes on our doorstep regularly, because we want to know that the people adopting them are serious rather than just drawn in by the appearance of a warm, fuzzy cute thing that won't be nearly as cute a year down the road.

I'm sorry if it sounds elitist to say that charging those sorts of prices is all right, but I really think it does the dogs a favor in the end, and I'm one of those people who feels like the needs and well-being of the animal should come before the presumed right of everybody to have whatever pet they want and treat them however they like.

Most of the really excellent dog breeders I know do not make a profit on their dogs at all in the long run. We had a loving, serious dog breeder in the other day whose little terrier needed a c-section in order to deliver her litter of two pups. One of the pups has a deformed leg, which may require surgical correction or amputation down the road, and won't be able to be shown despite the fact that he has champion parentage. The other pup is beautiful and perfect. Even if she sells that beautiful pup for a high price, she won't even come close to recovering the cost of the c-section and the care for his brother. You see that sort of thing a LOT when you work at a vet's office, and to be honest I always highly respect those wonderful breeders who are really just in it because they love their dogs and their breed so much.

From what I've seen, most pet shops and sketchy puppy-by-internet breeders charge even MORE than what good breeders charge for their puppies, when you know that those dogs are probably coming from puppy mills where their parents are living in hellish conditions. That's what I find sickening.

You aren't paying for my hobby....I breed for myself that show dog but reality is that not every puppy in the litter will be show quality so therefore we have to place that pet quality in a forever loving pet home. Show breeders breed to better the breed because we DO SHOW and that means we breed for healthy dogs and when that pet quality is in the litter then the buyer is getting a healthy dog that just didn't quite make it for the ring. So to say you shouldn't pay for my hobby I'm not asking you to buy my dogs. Go ahead and buy from that byb and puppymill and not have the kind of health garnatees that us "hobby" "show" breeders have and take the chance of having more health issues down the road. :)
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Learning from eachother is good!!
 

I like reading all these opinions- it's not a pointless discussion if everyone is being respectful- if anything it is educational and a way to learn more about other people's perspectives which is always a good thing in my mind.

I wanted to clarify that I have no problem with the amount of money yorkies can cost IN THEORY. What i mean is, if I wasn't a social worker, but instead chose a more lucrative profession and made lots of money, then I would gladly pay thousands and thousands because to me, my Tobey is priceless. Its like that mastercard commercial:p But I think in a perfect world, everyone who would love a yorkie and give it a fabulous life should be able to afford one. anyway, I am also in cosmetology school full time so hopefully I might have the potential in that career to afford another yorkie someday :hands:

Do all breeders keep show quality dogs? I always figured those who wanted a show quality dog could purchase one but obviousely at a much higher price. It sounds like it's pretty expensive to have one and to show them:eek: I spent about $1200.00 for our Bella and had you asked me even a month before we bought her if I would spend that much I would have said "NO WAY". But looking at what they're going for here in Washington for females (and I wanted a female, no dogs marking in my house!) that price was a decent price. A lot of breeders wanted $1500.00 on up for females and then they had restrictions on breeding. I don't have any restrictions (although I'm probably not going to breed her). Hearing about how expensive it is to breed Yorkies is quite an eye opener! Granted, I'd much rather have spent less for her but I was obviousely willing to pay the price to get a Yorkie. Besides, I'm so in love with her she's worth every penny:love:

I am content with spending $1200-1500 for a yorkie (I graduated college two years ago, so I'm not rich or anything. That's just what I'm willing to pay for my yorkie). If the breeder was asking $1500-2000, I'd try to make it work - especially if I fell in love with the puppy. I would just take my time :clock: and save :money: accordingly. Even if it takes years.

That is what a show breeder strives for is that show dog. You plan very carefully on the breeding. Matching the right male with your female and vs. versa. Knowing the pedigrees, health issues in every line. If I didn't show I wouldn't be breeding at all. I don't like the breeding aspect of dog showing but it's part of it. I'm not rich by far, in fact, I'm broke most of the time LOL but breeding as close to the standard and getting that close to standard show dog and putting them and winning from the bred by class is the ulitmate compliment to your breeding program and accomplishments! Not every puppy in a litter will be shown in the ring because of faults or whatever shoudn't be in the ring so that's the reason a pet quality will be placed in a forever loving pet home. I can't keep everything either or I'd be run out of house and home by yorkies LOL. 9 right now is about all I can handle. All but 2 and the 2 puppies are now my pets. I hope this answers your question LOL.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers